IF I were shopping for resale RIV…

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

Looks to be point positive now too compared to current point charts. If you booked that week on your own, that week would be more points than the contract.

Yep. I think this might speak to the lack of understanding about FW in general. Potential buyers mights mistakenly believe they’ll be locked into that week? My CCV also sat for several weeks…

 

[Disney_escape]

True I mean they could do this once bcv and bwv expire too and then RIP riv but for now I think we good

But when they redo Beach and Boardwalk the points chart for Riviera are going to look amazing in comparison.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Yep. I think this might speak to the lack of understanding about FW in general. Potential buyers mights mistakenly believe they’ll be locked into that week? My CCV also sat for several weeks…

This is why I’ve been reluctant on purchasing fixed weeks, as opposed to smaller contracts, as a hedge for future resale. We, few hundred or so, very DVC-knowledgeable folks recognize the usefulness of a FW, but I’d wager the vast, vast majority of members don’t and would shy away from it. Maybe in time that will change but I’m not sure.

It’s also a situation of hoping that the few knowledgeable who might see a FW and want to buy, also want the specific week you’ve chosen. Even if it’s a secondary consideration since they don’t actually ever have to use that FW. But if they never intend to use the FW, it just becomes more of an annoyance to have to call it in to MS every year to opt out of a week you were never interested in. And in that case, it would probably be easier and cheaper to just buy a normal contract of similar pts. Idk, these are just my internal battles when it comes to thinking about things we can’t predict lol

I think if we ever decide there is a week we know we want to come back often and to a specific resort, I’d buy one, but not for the sake of buying one as resale protection. I think for now we’re just going to buy smaller contracts to make potential resale easier.

 

[Sandisw]

Please do not post information about contracts for sale. We do not allow that in the boards.

Several posts were deleted.

 

[atthebeachclub]

But when they redo Beach and Boardwalk the points chart for Riviera are going to look amazing in comparison.

I know this, but I also know if that occurs I’m likely adding on there anyway.

 

[Girlstar30]

But when they redo Beach and Boardwalk the points chart for Riviera are going to look amazing in comparison.

But Riv Towers at The former Carribbean beach will be more expensive like Poly Tower I 100% still stand by Riv keeping on par with the other resale hotels just by my conviction of what i would do if it was sold out and access at 7 months was near slim to impossible because of all the other resalers. I would buy a small resale contract and I think others will follow suit so I think both sides can be right in that I think small contracts will be on par with the rest and larger contracts may be less but I still don't think "the less" will be on the same level as the much larger okw and ssr resorts that arent as popular or "upscale" as Riv. Shoot i havent even got it and im already thinking about adding on resale now (im not actually going to yet) but my head is spinning because with 150 direct i can only stay 5 nights in a one bedroom during September) I know there aren't many resale riv on the market yet but as soon as a small one appears it gets snapped up same day, I think that says a lot about what folks are thinking. I think maybe some people are thinking what it "should" be worth based on resale restrictions rather than what the market will actually do. People right now are willing to pay around $120 pp for a resort that's still on sale and has availability at 7 months. That's going to change. Direct Riv people only like I'm going to be (And im sure the majority of buyers of direct),will make sure RIV is the last contract they unload to the resale market so we don't lose our membership perks. So for that as well i dont think the market will be flood with Riv resale either. If you ever want to look into the mind of an irrational buyer that is impulsive and has major FOMO then look at me lolll. Lots of people are like me

 

[Girlstar30]

I think FW is going to be a hardddd sell. Not sure how many cabins there are, but most people looking for a Disney vacation near the parks, I don't think FW will be at the top of their list, ever. I could be wrong but when I saw it my thoughts as a Disney fan was that this doesn't feel like Disney to me, its too confusing, and i feel alone out here lol.

I know people love it but I think it's a niche market and then expensive dues on top when you're not getting a full service hotel experience in my simple mind it just doesn't make sense... Even being the only "studio" where 6 people are allowed for that point value, I just can't because my extended family would be way too crammed and I like my space, I feel like others agree that's why lockoffs are so popular. I could totally see myself going there to check it out once or twice.

People think if it joins up with LSL and dues are cheaper it may be more popular and that may be so but I think it will actually be less popular because people will be hot on the new LSL. Maybe I'm totally wrong but yeah Disney doesn't seem to care...

 

[Chili327]

Do fixed weeks also include the room type you want and it stays the same every year or you are just guaranteed the week you're going?

It’s the same every year and it depends on what you purchased. If you purchased a studio with a resort view that’s what you get each year. Otherwise we’d all purchase a resort view studio and switch it to 2-bdrm theme park view.

As someone else posted you aren’t locked into it, you can opt out and use the points for anything else, but there are no guarantees, nothing auto-reserved.

 

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

I think FW is going to be a hardddd sell. Not sure how many cabins there are, but most people looking for a Disney vacation near the parks, I don't think FW will be at the top of their list, ever. I could be wrong but when I saw it my thoughts as a Disney fan was that this doesn't feel like Disney to me, its too confusing, and i feel alone out here lol.

I know people love it but I think it's a niche market and then expensive dues on top when you're not getting a full service hotel experience in my simple mind it just doesn't make sense... Even being the only "studio" where 6 people are allowed for that point value, I just can't because my extended family would be way too crammed and I like my space, I feel like others agree that's why lockoffs are so popular. I could totally see myself going there to check it out once or twice.

People think if it joins up with LSL and dues are cheaper it may be more popular and that may be so but I think it will actually be less popular because people will be hot on the new LSL. Maybe I'm totally wrong but yeah Disney doesn't seem to care...

So I have to say that I somewhat shared your view on CFW not feeling ‘Disney’ but in fairness I had never even been there. We spent a half a day there on our last trip - admittedly not nearly enough - but I absolutely get the appeal now. It’s still not for me, but for those who love it - I finally understand!

It’s definitely a niche market, but if dues come down once LSL arrives, I would not be surprised if CFW purchases pick up considerably.

 

[fflmaster]

I don't think these historical trends are similar at all, and I don't believe that in 4-5 years Riviera will be anywhere near where it is now, once it's in the same stage in the "life cycle".

View attachment 943064

View attachment 943065

Source: https://dvcfieldguide.com/historical-resale-pricing





With DVC, there will always eventually be "huge losses" because the contract is guaranteed to be worthless a few decades down the road. So if a buyer buys with the idea that they (or their kid or grandkids) will hold the contract for 50 years, they really shouldn't care about the resale restrictions at all. But many buyers may initially buy with that intent only to have age, a geographic move, loss of job, divorce, death in the family, grown kids or other life issues come in the way. If/when that happens, those owners will eventually have to deal with the reality that their soon-to-be resale contracts are much less desirable by many (not all) potential buyers - it's just a fact. The flexibility of the "exchange" feature of a timeshare is too valuable to not matter much. That has to impact resale values, and it may do so by a lot.

Resale restrictions are not new, so you can take a look at other timeshare systems to see their impact over time. The Westin/Sheraton system (now part of Marriott Vacation Club) is very different but initially it had a handful of unrestricted resorts and then instituted resale restrictions for subsequent resorts. The unrestricted resorts in that system are truly unrestricted in the sense that resale deeds could exchange even into the 10-15 newer resorts that came after them. For many years, those unrestricted resorts sold for substantially more than restricted resorts on the resale market - and I mean like 5x more (although now everything there is hitting rock bottom due to skyrocketing dues). I don't think you'll see the same disparities at DVC, but there will probably be substantial price differences.

I can see RIV hitting below 90 a point or even lower in a few years.

 

[Girlstar30]

So I have to say that I somewhat shared your view on FW not feeling ‘Disney’ but in fairness I had never even been there. We spent a half a day there on our last trip - admittedly not nearly enough - but I absolutely get the appeal now. It’s still not for me, but for those who love it - I finally understand!

It’s definitely a niche market, but if dues come down once LSL arrives, I would not be surprised if FW purchases pick up considerably.

We went and did Hoop de doo, toured the room, and walked the grounds and did CHIP and Dales campfire. Disappointed with the campfire, thought it would be more entertaining. Hoop de Doos food was sooo good, loved it. My wife, who was born in Mexico, turned to me and said she did not understand what was going on (The same thing happened when we saw Hamilton on Broadway) i told her it was American comedy from back in the day and I didn't understand it much either even being from here The songs and humor did not translate for her i thought the quick service/restaurant bar looked cool it reminded me of Arizona. Wasn't impressed with the pool. I'm glad they offer these cabins as an options for DVC as it is completely different than staying in a resort, I do want to stay there, and I am very curious to see what happens to sales when and if LSL opening affects it! I do feel they need to do something to move sales, firesale perhaps

 

[tx911]

I can see RIV hitting below 90 a point or even lower in a few years.

That would make me a buyer for sure.

 

[Disney_escape]

But if you already have other points/contracts that can also be used at Riviera then the appeal of a Riviera contract (direct or resale) is much lower than a resale contract that does not have the resale restrictions and therefore has 14x flexibility, or a different direct contract like PVB that is perhaps much more likely to retain resale value because it's unrestricted if ever resold.

I never had a problem booking Riviera at 7 months out in a preferred view (e.g., July and August are well inside 7 months and 90% of the nights are still available). If anything, it seems to be one of the resorts that some owners try to switch out of at 7 months to get into "cheaper" resorts. I'm absolutely sold on staying there once in a while, but if the selling point of actually owning there is saving 3-5 points per night to book a parking lot view, I'm totally fine with paying a bit more for the skyliner view, or even "splurging" on a 1BR unit on occasion!


View attachment 942842

I wonder if some of the 7 month ease is because there are extra points to book currently, since they have declared more points than have been sold. Once the sales have caught up to this,\ I think the 7 month will be more difficult, especially for more popular times.

 

[Chili327]

Ok we need some clarification here…
Does FW = Fort Wilderness or Fixed/Fav Week??
I believe that CFW Is for the DVC resort, and I think I wasn’t the only one not following along. lol

 

[Girlstar30]

Ok we need some clarification here…
Does FW = Fort Wilderness or Fixed/Fav Week??
I believe that CFW Is for the DVC resort, and I think I wasn’t the only one not following along. lol

Sorry I believe i got confused with what you guys were talking about and thought FW meant fort wilderness and I went off in a tangent about that, Sprinkles got me

 

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

Ok we need some clarification here…
Does FW = Fort Wilderness or Fixed/Fav Week??
I believe that CFW Is for the DVC resort, and I think I wasn’t the only one not following along. lol

I was thinking the same thing when I read @Girlstar30 post but followed along for consistency I just edited my post bc you’re right - FW = Favorite Week and CFW is reserved for the Cabins!

 

[Chili327]

Sorry I believe i got confused with what you guys were talking about and thought FW meant fort wilderness and I went off in a tangent about that, Sprinkles got me

I was thinking the same thing when I read @Girlstar30 post but followed along for consistency I just edited my post bc you’re right - FW = Favorite Week and CFW is reserved for the Cabins!

Good to hear, I thought I was going crazy until I realized. lol

 

[DanCali]

I wonder if some of the 7 month ease is because there are extra points to book currently, since they have declared more points than have been sold. Once the sales have caught up to this,\ I think the 7 month will be more difficult, especially for more popular times.

I'll concede that popular times (e.g., holidays) can be harder to book even now in a preferred view. But if someone is currently content with paying up for the better view, and it's not a problem to book when they travel (like summer), I'm not sure that will change in the future.

There's also the waitlist feature which has it's advantages with a relatively expensive category like Riviera preferred. I view it as a "numbers game" - if you lurk or put in a waitlist at 7 months for a resort/view which has a lot of units (e.g., Riviera preferred, boardwalk garden, blt lake, akv savanna, pvb standard, aulani ocean) there will always be some percentage of owners who switch out for some reason, whether because they want to be in the MK area, or they want a cheaper resort, or maybe because their own waitlist to a standard/cheaper view or different resort was filled. And I suspect it's probably not the first choice for most other wait-listers (BWV various views, BCV and Riviera standard are maybe ahead of it). With about ~120(?) preferred view studios, a waitlist probably has a high chance of materializing.

I think too often people say you have to own somewhere because you can't book (or won't be able to book) it at 7 months, when the more correct reality is that the lack of availability just affects the smallest and/or worst view category rooms most of the time. To us, with our shorter stays, we're ok with paying up once in a while for a better view or a larger room. For longer or repeated stays, those differences do add up so it could matter more under those circumstances. But it's not like you're getting nothing when you do get a better view - in most other timeshare systems the better views are actually the desirable ones.

 

[Brian Noble]

But if you already have other points/contracts that can also be used at Riviera

And that's awesome for people who have pre-2019 resale points. For anyone getting into the system today, your observation is moot, and they have to pick between: O14 resale (excluding RIV), RIV resale (only RIV), and direct.

Is this a one off, or have others experienced this and it’s no big deal to you? It would drive me nuts if my room was right there.

We were there to kick the tires last Friday. No shenanigans detected. But, there are always goofy people being loud at more or less any resort from time to time.

I guess where I land is a resale RIV Favorite Week contract would probably be my best bet if I were buying... I'd probably buy a week I knew I could go every year, pay the extra point premium and be very happy with it for the right price....

That's exactly what I did. It already looks like I will be able to book conventionally for 2026. Beyond? Who knows?

But, I bought it to maximize its utility to me as the original owner. I did not buy to maximize resale value. Barring a black swan event, I will not be in a position to sell it for at least 15-20 years, and maybe never.

Has there ever been a resale RIV fixed week sold?

I'd be surprised. I don't think they've sold very many. Both my Guide and the Welcome Home orientation-person had to confirm details of how they worked. Thankfully, I"d already done enough reading to not have many questions.

 

[DanCali]

And that's awesome for people who have pre-2019 resale points. For anyone getting into the system today, your observation is moot, and they have to pick between: O14 resale (excluding RIV), RIV resale (only RIV), and direct.

The point I was making was that Riviera can be booked at 7 months (in a more pricy view category) relatively easily for much of the year. We're not pre-2019 owners but do have some direct points (e.g. VGF) so I don't see a need to add a "Riviera mug". I'm ok with paying for a better view or even for a 1BR if I wanted to stay there.

Yes, new entrants to DVC who want to book Riviera and still be able to book other resorts have to buy direct (or O14 resale + RIV resale). If I were in that position now, I'd buy PVB while I still could because I wouldn't be happy with the immediate capital loss and subsequent resale value prospects of a Riviera direct contract. I realize others don't really care about that.