IF I were shopping for resale RIV…

[🍀TwinsMom]

I guess to OP, if you think you want to bid on RR resale, throw out a lowball in your use year and see if you get any takers? Maybe you'll score a great deal. No harm in trying if you think you want the extra contract length. I think it's a good idea to wait until your June trip no matter what to do an exploratory of RR, LSL, CFW, and tour all the room types at RR so you have a complete picture of Skyliner lines, pools, vibe, and whatever else is a priority for you.

Look at it this way. Riviera resale isn't going anywhere and is pretty stagnant pricing-wise. Riviera direct just had its annual price increase and last round of incentives that came and went, so no biggie waiting for the next round of direct incentives if you go that route for blue card. I don't remember when current incentives end, thinking April? So you'll be in another incentive cycle. None of these resorts are going anywhere at the moment, so try the tours and enjoy your stay at RR and see if it fits for you.

Besides, IF you decided on direct, your points will be loaded that night, LOL, so if you decided to be impulsive, you'd have your points almost instantly.

 

[Chili327]

Pretty sure if I already owned BWV points, I would just add on there and pass on Riviera. BWV has a great point chart and has great access to HS and Epcot. The 2042 expiration can actually be a good thing since you aren't locked in until 2070.

No one is ever “locked” into any resort/contract. The resale market kills that being of any concern or factor.

I've gotten stuck on it a few times, but I'm still a huge fan of the Skyliner. And there's a Joffrey's on the way to HS!

That Joffreys is a great perk!!

 

[Sandisw]

You do realize most of the RIV owners have mortgages and there's no way they're going to sell their contracts at $75 per point?

You'd have to be pretty desperate or be forced to in case of a divorce disagreement, death, etc. to even go to $100 for a normal size contract.

What was the lowest RIV even was available direct? $165 or something with incentives? It debuted around $195 a point in 2019 before incentives, but I seem to recall there was an out-of-the-ordinary incentive during/right after the pandemic that brought it down quite a bit.

Why do you assume that? Or is there data out there that most finance buying direct?

 

[kevtlas]

I don’t think I’d pay over $100. Now if I were specifically shopping for RIV, I would likely increase that number, but not by much.

 

[Sandisw]

My point is that resale Riv is not reasonably valued at $120/pt and if I were making the offer I would offer much lower because it is not comparable to other DVC locations.

It isn’t that she shouldn’t buy it; just that $120 per point is in my opinion a ripoff for resale Riv when you look at DVC offerings as a whole. $120 to stay only at Barefoot Bay isn’t a bargain. Sub $90 is my own personal value. I wouldn’t offer at $90.

Of course if I owned a small contract there already and wanted to add on, the value could be more to me because it would be the only cheaper way to do so. But since I don’t, it isn’t a valuable choice to me.

I think your post is why one’s own personally situation plays a big role in what is a good price.

We love it, stay every trip, and so it’s worth more to us for home resort advantage than buying someplace else because we don’t need to trade.

It’s like those paying what they are paying for BWV and BCV…I think they are way overpriced for 17 years of use.

For example, CCV in the $130s is a great deal for those that want flexible points but it’s not a good for someone who wants to be able to stay at RIV, even some of the time.

I think people who have bought resale RIV are owners who do see value in it over the other places.

 

[DVCsloth]

No one is ever “locked” into any resort/contract. The resale market kills that being of any concern or factor.



That Joffreys is a great perk!!

It could be a factor to some, especially if you buy direct at $200 plus per point and sell for $120 minus commission.
Pretty steep hit, close to $10 thousand on a 100-point contract.
Yes, love me some Skyliner Joffrey's!

 

[jolynne28]

Resale Riv and last minute planning sound like a bad combo. You have to commit to 11 month bookings there in my opinion.

Do you have local pass options already? I can’t remember. Because with that number of visits I’d be looking for ways to get Sorcerers Passes or similar, which leads to direct purchases, and then you’d have to consider your tactics further.

RIV wouldn't be for last minute planning, it would strictly be for the big summer trip we do. Our SAP is for the last minute stuff. So basically we need to decide if we want to keep BWV and be good with the 2042 expiration, or transition to RIV. We are interested in direct as well, but I'd start with RIV resale and then maybe add on direct when it got closer to selling out, hoping they do a great incentive to close it out. Yes that's a big gamble too, who knows what will happen with the final direct point sales there or anywhere.

 

[Cfabar1]

100%. And if $120 makes locked in Riv resale a steal, I can’t imagine what that makes current CCV and BLT prices. Absolutely outrageously cheap? They offer a lot more flexibility and expire within a decade of Riv.

And much better points charts….
Though to be fair worse access to dining options (at CCV), worse transportation (at CCV)…

And smallest rooms as I recall…

Now, I would probably take that trade, and am considering getting another contract at CCV… but I think we would want to try before we buy…

 

[Sandisw]

RIV wouldn't be for last minute planning, it would strictly be for the big summer trip we do. Our SAP is for the last minute stuff. So basically we need to decide if we want to keep BWV and be good with the 2042 expiration, or transition to RIV. We are interested in direct as well, but I'd start with RIV resale and then maybe at on direct when it got closer to selling out, hoping they do a great incentive to close it out. Yes that's a big gamble too, who knows what will happen with the final direct point sales there or anywhere.

We sold BWV to buy RIV in 2019 in part because of expiration and having something my kids would have use of for longer.

Of course, I fell in love with it so it made the decision easier since we were the ones paying!!! lol

 

[Brian Noble]

Riviera is in some ways the red-headed stepchild of DVC, and always will be no matter what is built down the road.

As the first resort with restrictions, it will always be compared to those without them during its first decade (or more). And RIV resale points are objectively less flexible than O14 resale points. That doesn't mean they are less valuable, as that depends on the preferences of the individual person considering buying them.

Over time, the balance of restricted vs. unrestricted points on the market will change, and the set of O14 resorts will slowly dwindle while the set of restricted resorts will grow until, eventually, only restricted resorts are left. However, when we get to that point, RIV is going to be close to expiration itself, and therefore will still be a low-demand spot.

So there might never be a time when RIV is the resort you buy because its resale value will compare favorably when the time comes to sell.

On the other hand, the meaning of restrictions themselves is going to go down over time because they will be the default. At 2042, any remaining post-2019 O14 buyers will have no options in or near Epcot. After 2057, the largest source of SAP points will be gone, as will all but one of the "relief valve" resorts---those with lower relative demand for short-notice bookings.

For a lot of people, 2042 is so far in the future that that doesn't matter, let alone 2057. But that's becoming less true with each passing year. I hope to still have several good years of travel in my future when 2042 rolls around, and I'm probably above median age for current DVC buyers.

RIV evokes some of the strongest opinions among any resort in the portfolio, and there are a few people who make a point of mentioning its shortcomings in nearly every thread about the resort. And, those are things that might matter to a potential buyer! But the only thing that really matters is if they matter to you.

------------
As for fair market price: I think it is pretty close to it right now---which is not surprising, as there is an active market for it, and the market is what it is. But, there are some arguments for it, and some of those are the existence of BCV and BWV markets. In general, msot people buying BCV are buying it to use exclusively at BCV. The same is true, though less so, at BWV.

In comparison, RIV's location is less attractive to many, and the point chart is rough relatively speaking. On the other hand, some folks view the units themselves more favorably, plus the contract is probably not worth zero in 2042. So, "about what BCV and BWV go for" seems more or less in the ballpark, at least right now. I expect as we get closer to '42, they will diverge.

I do think the FMV will go down relative to the rest of DVC for a few more years as we reach steady-state in resale volumes. I don't think we are there yet. I'm going to be fascinated to see what happens when the resale market is "One of several restricted Epcot-ish resorts" and "Everywhere else."

 

[atthebeachclub]

RIV wouldn't be for last minute planning, it would strictly be for the big summer trip we do. Our SAP is for the last minute stuff. So basically we need to decide if we want to keep BWV and be good with the 2042 expiration, or transition to RIV. We are interested in direct as well, but I'd start with RIV resale and then maybe add on direct when it got closer to selling out, hoping they do a great incentive to close it out. Yes that's a big gamble too, who knows what will happen with the final direct point sales there or anywhere.

Another potential option: Since you are thinking 2 bedrooms is in your future…what about selling BWV and buying a larger BCV contract for cheap? 2 BRs are easier to come by at BCV at 11 months than at BWV due to the non lock off options.

Noting your summer travel comment: I probably would consider Riv more for non summer or fall travel, because the Skyliner will be more pleasant when it isn’t summer, and the storms stopping the Skyliner will be fewer.

But you have many options. No need to make a decision yet.

 

[Brian Noble]

Though to be fair worse access to dining options (at CCV), worse transportation (at CCV)…

My worry about CCV is the imbalance between the sources of points and the demand for them. Those cabins generate a lot of points, but they don't soak them up until well into the non-Home Resort window. Poly would have the same problem, except the resort is much more homogenous in terms of unit types, so it's less stark of a problem there.

 

[jolynne28]

And much better points charts….
Though to be fair worse access to dining options (at CCV), worse transportation (at CCV)…

And smallest rooms as I recall…

Now, I would probably take that trade, and am considering getting another contract at CCV… but I think we would want to try before we buy…

WL is my fav resort, we've stayed at CCV (have to have a 2BR) and BRV. But we've learned that right now with the kids, we value transportation and food options above the resort theme. Two park access comes out ahead over monorail for us.

 

[ML_LovesDisney]

Not saying I am, not saying I’m not. But what would be the sweet spot for price per point, factoring in stripped vs non vs loaded? Do you think the market for RIV right now is reasonably priced, or should it be lower due to restrictions? It seems that a lot of resale buyers are direct RIV owners looking to add on. I’m not seeing a lot of action on the board for RIV currently, but not sure if that’s just an anomaly.

I know I know, we need to stay there before we buy, but we never stayed at BWV and that worked out great. I’m looking at contracts and realizing that RIV is cheaper than BWV right now, with nearly 30 years longer on the contract. Kind of hard to ignore that.

I just bought a resale contract for $125 but it was smaller (100 point) and not stripped so price PP was a little higher. I have been looking out of boredom on the board sponsor's RIV contracts for sale and I thought some of the current prices are SUPER high. But, I imagine some people have loans and have to get a certain amount. I have 2 direct contracts of RIV and one small resale now so restrictions don't bother me on that one. I don't like the restrictions generally and think prices should be lower due to it. That being said, RIV is a great resort, great food, and location and I don't mind staying there every time (for now).

 

[Brian Noble]

right now with the kids, we value transportation and food options above the resort theme.

Because kids have this annoying habit of growing up, this could be different sooner rather than later.

I happen to like BRV---it might be my favorite resort in the entire portfolio---so consider this view biased. But one of my favorite things to do in any given trip is to grab the boat to the Contemporary for dinner.

 

[jolynne28]

Another potential option: Since you are thinking 2 bedrooms is in your future…what about selling BWV and buying a larger BCV contract for cheap? 2 BRs are easier to come by at BCV at 11 months than at BWV due to the non lock off options.

Noting your summer travel comment: I probably would consider Riv more for non summer or fall travel, because the Skyliner will be more pleasant when it isn’t summer, and the storms stopping the Skyliner will be fewer.

But you have many options. No need to make a decision yet.

See this is what I mean when I say I'm all over the place, I don't even remember saying or even thinking that about the skyliner and RIV! I've already transitioned past that thought into, we'll possibly use it for our big early June trip each year, at least until the kids are older/done, then we can do Food and Wine or whatever we want on our own.

We like BWV substantially more than BCV, so I don't see us switching over. I think people (not saying you) that travel in, especially those that experience colder climates, can't understand why we wouldn't love SAB or other resort pools. But when you live in FL, everyone has a pool, you swim year round, we have one kid on swim team and in the water 5 days a week, and no pool compares to the beaches we have access to. So we rarely lounge by the pool b/c we can do that any day of the week, it's just not our thing. Now we are excited to take advantage of the water park on check in day this year, and I'm hoping it's successful and they keep that up for a few years. We don't have access to water parks that nice and the kids will love it. Those have really fun lazy rivers and water slides. When we saw the lazy river at SAB we laughed, had no idea it was so small or how it could be enjoyable.

 

[peder]

Maybe I am crazy, but with the restriction on Riveria resale ONLY being allowed to stay there would make the price maybe around 75 or lower for me.

For me, being able to use points at multiple resorts is what gives DVC real value. Take that away and you have a timeshare that only goes to one location. Even more restricted then a marriot timeshare.

Maybe the points rental companies are what keep the demand high. The points rental companies that mostly use dedicated reservations don't really care about access to other resorts?

 

[Brian Noble]

When we saw the lazy river at SAB we laughed, had no idea it was so small or how it could be enjoyable.

I don't say this very often, because as soon as I do the BC/YC folks grab their pitchforks, but...

I found SAB to be anticipointing. It's a pretty nice pool, and probably the most interesting one of Disney's. There are plenty of (non-Disney) resorts in Orlando that also have very interesting pool complexes.

 

[atthebeachclub]

I don't say this very often, because as soon as I do the BC/YC folks grab their pitchforks, but...

I found SAB to be anticipointing. It's a pretty nice pool, and probably the most interesting one of Disney's. There are plenty of (non-Disney) resorts in Orlando that also have very interesting pool complexes.

This is probably heresy, but Stormalong Bay doesn’t even rank in my top favorite things about BCV. I think it has potential but I often travel in winter and find it hard to watch my kids there. I love the location and the vibe though.

 

[DVCsloth]

Because kids have this annoying habit of growing up, this could be different sooner rather than later.

I happen to like BRV---it might be my favorite resort in the entire portfolio---so consider this view biased. But one of my favorite things to do in any given trip is to grab the boat to the Contemporary for dinner.

We love the WL and own at CCV. The last time we stayed, there was no longer a boat running between WL and contemporary. We used to love dinner at The Wave "Steakhouse 71" and boat back to our resort. Great news if the boats are running between the two resorts again.