IF I were shopping for resale RIV…

[atthebeachclub]

I keep these notes handy that I found online on a forum a while back; they are very helpful for occompt searches:

“How to view deeds for a specific resort

1) Go to http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp

2) Select the dates you want to search.

3) On the far right, "Uncheck box to search specific document types." And then select "Deed".

4) Go to the Advanced Tab, in the "Legal Remarks" field and put the resort you are interested in the field in quotation marks (i.e. "Bay Lake", "Animal Kingdom"). Note: It doesn't have to be the full name but just a unique part of the name that won't bring up other results.

This brings you to a list of all the deed sales. You can then click on any listing for basic data. On the left of the basic data page you can click on the View Image link to see the actual document.

How to determine the resale price

Most documents I've found list price is $10 and other considerations. This is not useful. After researching on the website, I found that the "Deed Doc Tax" is at a rate of $0.70 per $100 = 0.70%. So you can take the Deed Doc Tax amount and divide by 0.70% to calculate the purchase price.

How to determine the number of points

This will be different for every resort and I haven't taken the time to calculate them all. The deeds are a percentage of a unit and don't necessarily list the points. In order to determine the $/point, we need to know the amount of points.

I searched for listings where both the points and percentage were listed and just calculated the % to point conversion. For Bay Lake Tower, I found that 1 point = 0.002545%. My assumption is that all units are the same size (not rooms but how the hotel is divided by DVD for DVC) which may or may not be the case.

How to view Disney Purchases (Exercises of ROFR/Foreclosures)

If you want to see deeds where only DVD is the buyer. Go back to the search page and add Disney in the "Grantee" Field on the basic search tab.

Example

As an example, here is a Bay Lake Tower Listing that ROFR was exercised:

http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/viewDoc.jsp?node=DOC1898S1531

Doc Tax = $154 so sale was for 154/0.7% = $22,000.

The percentage of unit is 0.5718% which equates to 0.5718/.002545 = 225 points.

So Disney exercised ROFR on Bay Lake Tower at $98/point. We don't know if this was a stripped/loaded contract but it at least gives a little information about where Disney is buying contracts back.

Conclusion

In an ideal world, all deed transfers would be transparent with price and contract details available but that's not the case. If someone is tech savvy they could probably right a script to scrape all this data into $/point sales but right now the process for me is manual so I haven't built much of a database.

If there is an easier way to get at the data or something I missed, please share. I hope everyone found this post useful.”

 

[jolynne28]

All good points. I've had $95-$100 in my head, so at least I'm not way off according to some of you. I agree that the product isn't as desirable since it removes the "club" aspect of DVC. But I do tend to also agree with others that the point chart will seem like a bargain, say in 10 years or maybe even less, when other resorts come online. PIT is much too high for us, aside from maybe using SAP for a special occasion/short trip. And even then, it would wipe out a lot of what we have.
Our travel patterns for the foreseeable future are 1 big early summer stay (aiming for 8-12 nights eventually), then weekends sprinkled in the remainder of the year. And a lot of those we don't plan until the last minute, sometimes 1-2 months out. I've considered spring break, but the point charts are so high, we'd almost have to have a separate contract just for that week.
Seems like I need to plan to get points to cover the summer trip where we want to stay, which right now is Crescent Lake area. Which then leads me to adding more at BWV or getting resale RIV.

 

[jolynne28]

I keep these notes handy that I found online on a forum a while back; they are very helpful for occompt searches:

“How to view deeds for a specific resort

1) Go to http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp

2) Select the dates you want to search.

3) On the far right, "Uncheck box to search specific document types." And then select "Deed".

4) Go to the Advanced Tab, in the "Legal Remarks" field and put the resort you are interested in the field in quotation marks (i.e. "Bay Lake", "Animal Kingdom"). Note: It doesn't have to be the full name but just a unique part of the name that won't bring up other results.

This brings you to a list of all the deed sales. You can then click on any listing for basic data. On the left of the basic data page you can click on the View Image link to see the actual document.

How to determine the resale price

Most documents I've found list price is $10 and other considerations. This is not useful. After researching on the website, I found that the "Deed Doc Tax" is at a rate of $0.70 per $100 = 0.70%. So you can take the Deed Doc Tax amount and divide by 0.70% to calculate the purchase price.

How to determine the number of points

This will be different for every resort and I haven't taken the time to calculate them all. The deeds are a percentage of a unit and don't necessarily list the points. In order to determine the $/point, we need to know the amount of points.

I searched for listings where both the points and percentage were listed and just calculated the % to point conversion. For Bay Lake Tower, I found that 1 point = 0.002545%. My assumption is that all units are the same size (not rooms but how the hotel is divided by DVD for DVC) which may or may not be the case.

How to view Disney Purchases (Exercises of ROFR/Foreclosures)

If you want to see deeds where only DVD is the buyer. Go back to the search page and add Disney in the "Grantee" Field on the basic search tab.

Example

As an example, here is a Bay Lake Tower Listing that ROFR was exercised:

http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/viewDoc.jsp?node=DOC1898S1531

Doc Tax = $154 so sale was for 154/0.7% = $22,000.

The percentage of unit is 0.5718% which equates to 0.5718/.002545 = 225 points.

So Disney exercised ROFR on Bay Lake Tower at $98/point. We don't know if this was a stripped/loaded contract but it at least gives a little information about where Disney is buying contracts back.

Conclusion

In an ideal world, all deed transfers would be transparent with price and contract details available but that's not the case. If someone is tech savvy they could probably right a script to scrape all this data into $/point sales but right now the process for me is manual so I haven't built much of a database.

If there is an easier way to get at the data or something I missed, please share. I hope everyone found this post useful.”

Super helpful, thanks so much for sharing!

 

[AstroBlasters]

Really, RR Crescent area resort with 30+years at $120pp-ISH seems like a steal to me. Up to you if you want to bite.

It’s not Crescent area…. It’s Caribbean Beach area….

 

[atthebeachclub]

All good points. I've had $95-$100 in my head, so at least I'm not way off according to some of you. I agree that the product isn't as desirable since it removes the "club" aspect of DVC. But I do tend to also agree with others that the point chart will seem like a bargain, say in 10 years or maybe even less, when other resorts come online. PIT is much too high for us, aside from maybe using SAP for a special occasion/short trip. And even then, it would wipe out a lot of what we have.
Our travel patterns for the foreseeable future are 1 big early summer stay (aiming for 8-12 nights eventually), then weekends sprinkled in the remainder of the year. And a lot of those we don't plan until the last minute, sometimes 1-2 months out. I've considered spring break, but the point charts are so high, we'd almost have to have a separate contract just for that week.
Seems like I need to plan to get points to cover the summer trip where we want to stay, which right now is Crescent Lake area. Which then leads me to adding more at BWV or getting resale RIV.

Resale Riv and last minute planning sound like a bad combo. You have to commit to 11 month bookings there in my opinion.

Do you have local pass options already? I can’t remember. Because with that number of visits I’d be looking for ways to get Sorcerers Passes or similar, which leads to direct purchases, and then you’d have to consider your tactics further.

 

[atthebeachclub]

It’s not Crescent area…. It’s Caribbean Beach area….

100%. And if $120 makes locked in Riv resale a steal, I can’t imagine what that makes current CCV and BLT prices. Absolutely outrageously cheap? They offer a lot more flexibility and expire within a decade of Riv.

 

[DVCsloth]

I think that Riviera is almost as good as a location as BWV/BCV for Epcot and HS, so I would be willing to pay a bit more for Riviera resale than either of those places.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I think that Riviera is almost as good as a location as BWV/BCV for Epcot and HS, so I would be willing to pay a bit more for Riviera resale than either of those places.

well…. it will take a LOT more RIV points for the same room category at BC/BW…. and you can’t use RIV points anywhere else…. EVER…..

 

[RuntheMouse]

Not saying I am, not saying I’m not. But what would be the sweet spot for price per point, factoring in stripped vs non vs loaded? Do you think the market for RIV right now is reasonably priced, or should it be lower due to restrictions? It seems that a lot of resale buyers are direct RIV owners looking to add on. I’m not seeing a lot of action on the board for RIV currently, but not sure if that’s just an anomaly.

I know I know, we need to stay there before we buy, but we never stayed at BWV and that worked out great. I’m looking at contracts and realizing that RIV is cheaper than BWV right now, with nearly 30 years longer on the contract. Kind of hard to ignore that.

I’m not entering the “deabte” but will answer your question. We are direct RIV owners who purchased a resale add on. We paid $120 for a loaded 50 point contract last summer.

 

[DVCsloth]

I agree, but the rooms are a lot nicer imo at Riviera imo. I wouldn't purchase Riviera resale as my only resort though.
The other thing about Riviera if people are concerned with selling down the road, selling resale or direct points won't matter
since they will all be restricted when they are sold again.

 

[DVCsloth]

well…. it will take a LOT more RIV points for the same room category at BC/BW…. and you can’t use RIV points anywhere else…. EVER…..

I agree, but the rooms are a lot nicer imo at Riviera imo. I wouldn't purchase Riviera resale as my only resort though.
The other thing about Riviera if people are concerned with selling down the road, selling resale or direct points won't matter
since they will all be restricted when they are sold again.

 

[tom1944]

well…. it will take a LOT more RIV points for the same room category at BC/BW…. and you can’t use RIV points anywhere else…. EVER…..

The point charts played a large role in my purchase. I figured the resorts with the high points required would really only be used for a few days of a split stay and only occasionally.

I actually considered both direct Riv when I was first looking and resale Poly as a potential add on but those point charts and cost needed to get them were more than I wanted to commit to.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

It’s not Crescent area…. It’s Caribbean Beach area….

Whatever, dude.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

100%. And if $120 makes locked in Riv resale a steal, I can’t imagine what that makes current CCV and BLT prices. Absolutely outrageously cheap? They offer a lot more flexibility and expire within a decade of Riv.

But if CC/BLT are not in the Epcot/HS area the OP likes and chances are they won't be swapping in over there -- does it matter if BLT/CC are a better deal if there's no need for the home resort advantage? Just buy more SS SAP and hope for the best at seven months.

OP is interested in a certain area that BLT/CC don't cover. CC she'd need a minimum 2B every trip for her family size and she's nowhere near what she likes. BLT is MK focused, does have the extra bathroom, but may not be their style.

All of these OG14 resorts have wonderful things going for them in different room categories and seasons and park proximity and transportation options, but what difference does home resort make for this "versatility" if it's not where you want to go? She likes BW and possibly RR.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Whatever, dude.

It’s like someone from Newark or Jersey City saying they live in the New York City area…. no… you live in Jersey (no disrespect) …. it’s not that far away if the transportation is working…. but it’s not New York City area where you could walk to anything you want to….

 

[DVCsloth]

Pretty sure if I already owned BWV points, I would just add on there and pass on Riviera. BWV has a great point chart and has great access to HS and Epcot. The 2042 expiration can actually be a good thing since you aren't locked in until 2070.

 

[atthebeachclub]

My point is that resale Riv is not reasonably valued at $120/pt and if I were making the offer I would offer much lower because it is not comparable to other DVC locations.

It isn’t that she shouldn’t buy it; just that $120 per point is in my opinion a ripoff for resale Riv when you look at DVC offerings as a whole. $120 to stay only at Barefoot Bay isn’t a bargain. Sub $90 is my own personal value. I wouldn’t offer at $90.

Of course if I owned a small contract there already and wanted to add on, the value could be more to me because it would be the only cheaper way to do so. But since I don’t, it isn’t a valuable choice to me.

 

[DVCsloth]

It’s like someone from Newark or Jersey City saying they live in the New York City area…. no… you live in Jersey (no disrespect) …. it’s not that far away if the transportation is working…. but it’s not New York City area where you could walk to anything you want to….

I think Riviera has pretty awesome access to Epcot and good access to HS. We don't tend to stay until park closure so the lines going home don't affect us. We sometimes stay at BCV and it looks like to me that most people either take the Skyliner or boat to HS. The walk to HS is actually a nice enjoyable walk, but I hardly see anyone using it.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I think Riviera has pretty awesome access to Epcot and good access to HS. We don't tend to stay until park closure so the lines going home don't affect us. We sometimes stay at BCV and it looks like to me that most people either tahe the Skyliner or boat to HS. The walk to HS is actually a nice enjoyable walk, but I hardly see anyone using it.

It has pretty awesome access “IF the Skyliner is working”…. whereas the actual Crescent Lake resorts don’t have that qualifier….

 

[DVCsloth]

It has pretty awesome access “IF the Skyliner is working”…. whereas the actual Crescent Lake resorts don’t have that qualifier….

I've gotten stuck on it a few times, but I'm still a huge fan of the Skyliner. And there's a Joffrey's on the way to HS!