I won't give in till I reach the end... and then I'll start again (comments welcome)

[DopeyBadger]

 

[azrivest]

So cute, thanks Billy

I am proud. Disappointed yes: I'm an overachiever who wants to be the best at everything, and running teaches me humility every year.

But it's not the end of the world. I didn't have a PoT in February either and I still had an amazing time. And I'll know I'm not lying when I input an expected time between 2:15-2:30

 

[azrivest]

I was analyzing my Garmin Connect data, and I'm now prouder than I was

My 5k split is 30:30, and my 10k is 1:01:41. Considering my 10k PR is 1:00:37, it's no wonder I found the second half more tiring. Based on the race course and elevation, my race plan was to do the first 7 miles faster than the last 6, but I probably attacked it too hard at first.

Here are some pictures from the race. you can see my facial expression change from the start to the end

 

[azrivest]

I've jumped aboard the injury train.

I was sore after my race and took a few days off, but the pain in my ITB (and hip and left knee) has just increased continuously. It's clearly ITBS.

Managed a 40 minute run yesterday, but my gait was affected most of the time.

I have an appt with my PT on Tuesday. Hopefully I can get back on track (literally and figuratively) soon.

 

[azrivest]

Oh but on a super positive note, I've finally convinced one of my kids to try to start running with me.

My husband and I discussed with the kids doing the 5k together in February. It was a hard "no" from DD6-almost-7, who doesn't want to get up at 2am. But my son is super pumped. Even tho it's 8 months away, he already wants to start training.

So @DopeyBadger, G might have a buddy at the DIS meet up on the Thursday morning!

 

[DopeyBadger]

So @DopeyBadger, G might have a buddy at the DIS meet up on the Thursday morning!

 

[azrivest]

Officially, my McMillan Downhill Marathon Level 2 training plan starts today. This is the general structure for each week:

Mon	Off
Tue	Easy Run	Strength
Wed	Recovery/Cross/Easy Run
Thu	Hard Run	Strength	Yoga
Fri	Recovery/Cross/Easy Run
Sat	Easy Run	Drills
Sun	Long Run

Wanting to run 5 days/week, I opted to keep the Wednesday and use the Friday for recovery or cross-training.

How should I adapt my plan? I know that each coach has an intention when building their training plan and that we shouldn't play around with it too much. The plan already fits well with my running group, which does an easy run on Wednesday and a long run on Sunday. My only worry is on the Thursday, where I have my yoga class (which I can't really ask the teacher to move around ). It's also the day where I should do my hard run (Hill Strides, Goal Pace, etc.) + my 2nd strength workout. It seems a bit much all in one day. @DopeyBadger what do you think? Could I switch the Thursday and Friday runs with minimal impact? Or maybe move the Strength training to the Wednesday? McMillan really puts the emphasis on doing the Strength sessions on run days, which is consistent with what other experts have mentioned on this forum.

As I wrote previously, I neglected my strength training in my last cycle, and I'm really paying for it now. I'd like to keep as many strength sessions as I can, including my yoga, to finish my marathon cycle injury-free.

 

[DopeyBadger]

How should I adapt my plan? I know that each coach has an intention when building their training plan and that we shouldn't play around with it too much. The plan already fits well with my running group, which does an easy run on Wednesday and a long run on Sunday. My only worry is on the Thursday, where I have my yoga class (which I can't really ask the teacher to move around ). It's also the day where I should do my hard run (Hill Strides, Goal Pace, etc.) + my 2nd strength workout. It seems a bit much all in one day. @DopeyBadger what do you think? Could I switch the Thursday and Friday runs with minimal impact? Or maybe move the Strength training to the Wednesday? McMillan really puts the emphasis on doing the Strength sessions on run days, which is consistent with what other experts have mentioned on this forum.

I think if you're keeping the long run on Sunday, then you're going to want to keep the hard run on Thursday. There's an argument to be made that you could move the hard run to Wednesday instead (loss of group easy run then), but I definitely would shy away from moving the hard day to Friday. You'd have less recovery between the hard day and long day.

I'd go with:

M- OFF
T- Easy
W- Hard + Strength (loss of group run)
R- Easy + Yoga
F- Recover/Cross
Sa- Easy + Drills
Su- Long + Strength

OR

M- OFF
T- Easy + Strength
W- Easy
R- Hard + Yoga
F- Recover/Cross
Sa- Easy + Drills
Su- Long + Strength

In both cases above, you're getting two strength days per week, and you're not doing three activities (run + strength + yoga) in a single day. The key with having strength on Sunday is you would want to do it after the long run and it shouldn't be leg focused strength work unless you're really confident in your abilities.

You could consider:

M- OFF
T- Easy + Strength
W- Easy
R- Hard + Yoga
F- Recover/Cross + Strength
Sa- Easy + Drills
Su- Long

But then again, the Friday strength definitely would need to be non-leg based as that's a leg recovery type day from the Hard Thursday.

 

[lookingforsunshine]

Oh and I received my new Encanto Dottie skirt in the mail on Friday. It is beyond gorgeous.

Beautiful!!!

 

[azrivest]

You could consider:

M- OFF
T- Easy + Strength
W- Easy
R- Hard + Yoga
F- Recover/Cross + Strength
Sa- Easy + Drills
Su- Long

But then again, the Friday strength definitely would need to be non-leg based as that's a leg recovery type day from the Hard Thursday.

I'll try this. It's the one with the least modification to the training plan.

It's not non-leg based, but it's not just leg based, if that makes any sense. Of the 5 exercices I should do on Thursday, one is a one-legged squat and one are hamstring curls on a swiss ball.

T- Easy + Strength
W- Easy+ Strength
R- Hard + Yoga
F- Recover/Cross

And this wouldn't make sense because it doesn't leave me enough recovery between the two strength sessions?

 

[DopeyBadger]

And this wouldn't make sense because it doesn't leave me enough recovery between the two strength sessions?

It depends on the activities during the strength sessions. If one were say Chest/Triceps and the other Back/Biceps, or Chest/Back vs Biceps/Triceps, then you could do two sessions back to back. But like running, the more similar the two strength exercises are, the less you want them to be back to back. To reap the benefits of the strength exercises you've got to allow recovery of that specific muscle group. What are the exercises being done in each of the two strength sessions?

 

[azrivest]

What are the exercises being done in each of the two strength sessions?

The strength program included is core/leg focused. This is the first phase for the base part of the plan

Tuesday:
- Dead bug
- Lunge matrix
- Standing rower
- Push up
- Plank with shoulder taps

Thursday:
- Superman
- Single leg squat
- Reverse plank
- Hamstring curls
- Side plank

 

[DopeyBadger]

Tuesday:
- Dead bug (Core)
- Lunge matrix (Legs)
- Standing rower (Back/Legs)
- Push up (Arms/Chest)
- Plank with shoulder taps (Core/Arms)

Thursday:
- Superman (Core)
- Single leg squat (Legs)
- Reverse plank (Core)
- Hamstring curls (Legs)
- Side plank (Core)

Yea, I would be wary of putting these back to back because of the similarities between the exercises. Although an argument could be made that the exercises aren't exactly the same in terms of muscle groups. But if it's your best option, then try it and see how it feels.

I know when I signed up for the McMillan Marathon Legs program they sent me emails along the way and encouraged me to reach out if I had questions. I never did reach out to them, but did you get a similar email? Maybe reach out to the McMillan team and see what their thoughts are on balancing/adjusting.

 

[azrivest]

I did write to them but they never replied. I'm guessing my little email got lost in the big machine that is McMillan Running. It must probably be a very lucrative business for Coach Greg.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I did write to them but they never replied. I'm guessing my little email got lost in the big machine that is McMillan Running. It must probably be a very lucrative business for Coach Greg.

Bummer. Well I guess I'd keep two things at the forefront when mixing running+strength.

1) Keep easy days easy. So with the strength program above, you've got leg strength exercises which changes an easy day to a moderate/hard one.
2) Avoid putting similar strength workouts on back to back days.

So if we go back to their original plan:

M- OFF (Easy)
T- Easy + Strength (Moderate)
W- Easy (Easy)
R- Hard + Strength + Yoga (Hard)
F- Recover/Cross (Easy)
Sa- Easy + Drills (Easy)
Su- Long (Hard)

This plan has four easy/off, one moderate, and two hard.

M- OFF (Easy)
T- Easy + Strength (Moderate)
W- Easy+ Strength (Moderate)
R- Hard + Yoga (Hard)
F- Recover/Cross (Easy)
Sa- Easy + Drills (Easy)
Su- Long (Hard)

This plan has three easy/off, two moderate, and two hard.

M- OFF (Easy)
T- Easy (Easy)
W- Hard + Strength (loss of group run) (Hard)
R- Easy + Yoga (Easy)
F- Recover/Cross (Easy)
Sa- Easy + Drills (Easy)
Su- Long + Strength (Hard)

This plan has five easy/off, no moderate, and two hard.

M- OFF (Easy)
T- Easy + Strength (Moderate)
W- Easy (Easy)
R- Hard + Yoga (Hard)
F- Recover/Cross (Easy)
Sa- Easy + Drills (Easy)
Su- Long + Strength (Hard)

This plan has four easy/off, one moderate, and two hard.

M- OFF (Easy)
T- Easy + Strength (Moderate)
W- Easy (Easy)
R- Hard + Yoga (Hard)
F- Recover/Cross + Strength (Moderate)
Sa- Easy + Drills (Easy)
Su- Long (Hard)

This plan has three easy/off, two moderate, and two hard.

So I guess my order of preference would be:

1) Try to do hard run + strength + yoga on the same day
2) Drop/move the yoga off Thursday
3) Drop the strength workout on Thursdays and do one strength per week.
4) Do this one:

M- OFF (Easy)
T- Easy + Strength (Moderate)
W- Easy (Easy)
R- Hard + Yoga (Hard)
F- Recover/Cross + Strength (Moderate)
Sa- Easy + Drills (Easy)
Su- Long (Hard)

But go really light on the Friday leg moves. If you find the leg moves to be too much on Fridays, then drop that strength workout altogether.

 

[azrivest]

(Seriously, thank you so much for taking the time to help me)

I'll start with this:
1) Try to do hard run + strength + yoga on the same day. If I miss out on yoga, it's not the end of the world. I prefer to keep running-specific exercices.
2) Drop/move the yoga off Thursday. There's another group on Tuesday at 8am. If #1 doesn't work out, I'll switch to Tuesdays. At least it's an easy run that's planned on that day, so easier to manage fatigue-wise.

 

[azrivest]

Week 1 of 16 of my first-ever marathon training plan! My only goal is to finish, but the marathon does have a 5:30 time limit

A lot has happened this week. As I wrote, my left leg/hip/buttocks have been hurting since my half, and the pain increased steadily in the days after my race. I tried running last Saturday, limping the whole time. So I went to see my trusty PT. She diagnosed that my hip bone was misaligned, which was squeezing my sciatic and causing me all sorts of issues like overtight muscles and irritated tendons/ligaments. I've been rolling and doing some strengthening exercices daily, and it's really helped. The pain lessens every day. But the best part was that she cleared me to run, since not running would probably have tightened my muscles even more. So yay!

I also bought Shalane Flanagan's cookbook. I appreciated @HangWithMerida 's advice on managing my diet and calorie intake a few weeks ago. I wanted to take it a step further, since I'm not always very systematic about entering my stuff in MFP. I know that losing weight during marathon training isn't easy, so it's not what I'll be aiming for. I'll try to eat as healthy and as nourishing as I can during the whole training cycle, knowing how demanding on a body it can be.

Training plan

Monday

• Off, Cross-Train or 30 minute Easy Run
  • Still hurting, I opted not to run before seeing my PT

Tuesday

• 30-45 minute Easy Run
  • McMillan has calculated my easy pace as 6:38-7:09 min/km which is pretty close to my LR pace from PW2022
  • Went out for 42 minutes
  • Completed: 5.97 km ~ 43:08 (7:13 min/km)
  • FinalSurge shows the training in yellow (warning), since the planned input duration is 35 minutes. Apparently 42 minutes is too long So I've already learned to turn off the coloring in FinalSurge
• Stability strengthening
  • Yup, I've neglected strength training. I thought this would be a cinch, but my glutes REALLY need work. No wonder I got hurt.
  • Completed: 9:50
• This is the day my PT cleared to run, as long as I went easy.

Wednesday

• Planned: 30:00 @ 6:38-7:09 min/km
  • Completed: 4.8 km ~ 32:52 (6:50 min/km)
  • Went out with my running group, which were running longer. Decided to stop and walk the last part, so as to not start out too hard.

Thursday

• Planned: 45:00 @ 6:38-7:09 min/km
  • Completed: nothing.
  • There was a huge thunderstorm on Thursday. And I was exhausted. So I opted to push it back to Friday. Darn, I've already tired and it's day 4 of my training plan. Am I already overdoing it? Did I need a longer break between this and my HM?
• Stability strengthening
  • Completed: nothing
• Yoga: 1h

Friday

• Planned: Off or Cross-Train
  • Completed: 5 km ~ 42:11 (8:26 min/km)
  • On the treadmill: wanted to watch Boba Fett
  • Also did yesterday's strength session

Saturday

• Planned: 35:00 @ 6:38-7:09 min/km
  • Completed: 5 km ~ 35:00 (7:00 min/km)
  • Plan mentions that Saturday is Drill Day. Forgot to warm up with them so did some after my run. I need to plan better to incorporate this into my routine.

Sunday

• Planned: 55:00 @ 6:40-7:25 min/km
  • Completed: 8.19 km ~ 57:13 (6:59 min/km) with my running group
  • None of the slower runners showed up today, so the group was able to maintain a pretty good pace. That 7 min/k includes 1-minute walk breaks.

Next week is still base building and no hard runs are planned. My energy level is also back to normal. So all in all, today is a good day

Happy running!

 

[HangWithMerida]

I have Shalene Flanagan's Rise and Run cookbook. It's mostly breakfast stuff, various muffins and snacks. I have liked everything I made from it so far. I have a batch of superhero muffins in my freezer and I pull one out and warm it up the microwave for 30 sec or so before longer morning runs. Really good and gives a good balanced energy without making me feel like I need to let my food settle. I heard someone describe her cookbook as 100 ways to cook vegetables. They meant it as a compliment in that the recipes are nutritionally well balanced but also very tasty. I look forward to hearing what you think of her other cookbook.

 

[azrivest]

I have Shalene Flanagan's Rise and Run cookbook. It's mostly breakfast stuff, various muffins and snacks. I have liked everything I made from it so far. I have a batch of superhero muffins in my freezer and I pull one out and warm it up the microwave for 30 sec or so before longer morning runs. Really good and gives a good balanced energy without making me feel like I need to let my food settle. I heard someone describe her cookbook as 100 ways to cook vegetables. They meant it as a compliment in that the recipes are nutritionally well balanced but also very tasty. I look forward to hearing what you think of her other cookbook.

I look forward to trying it out too! I got her "Run Fast Eat Slow" cookbook.

 

[azrivest]

Week 2 of 16 of my first-ever marathon training plan! My only goal is to finish, but the marathon does have a 5:30 time limit


TLDR: 5 runs, 3 strength sessions and 1h yoga. Good tap on the shoulder for me. Hot temps. And PW registration!!!



Temps for my long run last Sunday were in the low 50s. Perfect training weather. I felt amazing.
Temps for my long run today were in the low 80s So yeah, it's like Mother Nature has decided: Screw it with your heat acclimation.

McMillan's plans are all pace-based, and I've noticed my HR tends to creep up into zone 3 and even zone 4 on my easy runs. I'll need to gauge that I don't overdo it in the long run (mom joke!) by not following the pace zones blindly. Especially with the hottest summer temps coming up. It's so hard to find a training plan that fits all my needs...

I successfully registered for all 3 PW2023 races and registered my son for the 5k with me. Then, I got a big surprise. Apparently, training Hubby to register paid off: he decided to register himself and DD7 for the 5k, despite my daughter initially pouting and saying no. She perked up when I told her that Jasmine was the 5k theme and she and other princesses would be on the course for pictures. So the 4 of us will be running on the Friday!! (And no, I am not pushing my daughter unduly. We'll take 2 hours if need be to slowly walk it. It'll be a good motivation for them to be a little more active, cause my kids can be lazy.)

Monday

• Off

Tuesday

• 30-45 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 35:00 @ 6:38-7:09 min/km
  • Completed: 5.09 km ~ 35:00 (6:52 min/km)
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 1 - Stability Program A
  • Completed: 9:05
• Went back to see my PT. She diagnosed that my femoral nerve is irritated, and it's manifesting in my lower quad area. So I have to increase my foam rolling in my lower back + squat deadlifts before I run to activate my hamstrings and glutes.

Wednesday

• Recovery Day (Off, Cross-Train or Optional Run)
• Planned: 30:00 @ 6:38-7:09 min/km
  • Completed: 4.1 km ~ 29:59 (7:18 min/km)
  • Anything to write?

Thursday

• Did my 1 hour yoga class during lunch. Concentrated on my glutes and lower back.
• 50-60 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 55:00 @ 6:38-7:09 min/km
  • Completed: 8.04 km ~ 55:54 (6:57 min/km)
• Planned: Strength in Stride Phase 1 - Stability Program B
  • Completed: 8:57

Friday

• Off

Saturday

• 30-45 minute Easy Run
• Planned: 35:00 @ 6:38-7:09 min/km
  • Completed: 5.56 km ~ 37:32 (6:45 min/km)
  • T+D at end: 140
  • Went running with a running friend who always pushes the pace too much. Heat already started to get to me. I should not have run as fast.
• Planned: Running Form Drills
  • Done!

Sunday

• 60-80 minute Long Run
• Planned: 1:10:00 @ 6:40-7:25 min/km
  • Completed: 9.01 km ~ 1:10:11 (7:47 min/km)
  • T+D at start: 145
  • T+D at end: 151
  • Today was HOT. Went with my running group, and our group leader took us on a mostly unshaded bike path. Really not a smart move on his part.
  • Based on the adjustment chart that Herding_Cats sent me, I should be in the 4% adjustment. Based on my average pace, I was more in the 5% adjustment. But I listened to my body and just went on RPE instead of HR or pace.
  • My HR was high. I spent half my run in the dreaded grey zone. Again, hard to gauge if I should have slowed down even more to stay in zone 2.

Happy running!