I won't give in till I reach the end... and then I'll start again (comments welcome)

[azrivest]

Week 8 of 13 of my HM training plan, with a goal of 2:12

This week was okay, even though I'm still struggling with my motivation. It's hard to get in the runs and put in the effort during my intervals, when my only real goal is getting a POT for Wine&Dine and Princess. I didn't have a POT last time and still had a great time... Like FFigawi posted this week, running is a lot about the mental toughness and I just don't have it this time around.

I spent a few more days in Amsterdam then flew to Hannover to meet some new German colleagues of mine. I am really lucky that my work allows me to run in such different and beautiful cities.

Summary:

• Running Distance = 40.97 km
• Running Time = 4h59

Monday

• Rest day

Tuesday

• My training plan had scheduled some 3:1 intervals. Instead, I met my new running buddy/tourist guide David to run through the streets of Amsterdam. Since it was a Tuesday night, I didn't want to go too hard and asked him to keep it short, but he still had me do over 6.5 miles.
• His running pace was about 9:30/mile which is way too fast for my training runs. I'm usually more around 11-11:30/mile. I was relieved that we would stop occasionally so he could explain or let me take pictures.

Wednesday

• 4x 3:1 + WU/CD
• 6.8k in 47:15

Thursday

• 16x 30':30' repeats +WU/CD
• 4.51k in 32:36
• vo2Max went up to 43

Friday

• Rest day

Saturday

• 6k @ EB pace
• Only did 4.81k in 35:00 cause I had a plane home to catch and didn't have that much time to run

Sunday

• 14k @ LR pace
• 14.66k in 1:47:35 with my running group
• My legs felt shredded from 2 weeks of running on cobblestone and pavement. Also, ran with my Arahi 5 which don't seem to be the best pair of shoes for long runs.
• vo2max went back down to 42.

I do not understand this concept. If anyone knows how your vo2max is calculated with Garmin, I'd be really interested in knowing. Like, how does it measure the % of oxygen in your blood - it doesn't. I know it has to do with heartrate vs pace, but I don't always see the correlation between "Hey I had a great run, I feel really good - Oh my vo2max went down?!" and "Gosh I'm really tired today, I don't feel like going running - Oh my vo2max went up?!"

I wish my vivoactive 4 did not show it to me after every run. I want to track my HR, but this is a feature that I really wish I could deactivate. Every time it goes down, I feel that I did something wrong during my run or that I'm not good enough.

But I still go out running 5 times a week and spring has finally arrived in my part of the country, so those are two wins in my book.

Happy running!

 

[GollyGadget]

Anecdotally, I've noticed my vo2max is higher after a speed workout and drops after my easy runs. Because of this, I largely ignore it. I also have vivoactive 4 but no idea on if you can disable it. I don't actually even look at my watch stats post run so maybe I'm not even a real runner .

Yay for spring! I hope it sticks around for a while.

 

[lookingforsunshine]

My vo2 max is always “poor” so obviously the data is inherently flawed. I am a fitness princess, Garmin!!!

*waits for @DopeyBadger to come school us *

 

[DopeyBadger]

I do not understand this concept. If anyone knows how your vo2max is calculated with Garmin, I'd be really interested in knowing. Like, how does it measure the % of oxygen in your blood - it doesn't. I know it has to do with heartrate vs pace, but I don't always see the correlation between "Hey I had a great run, I feel really good - Oh my vo2max went down?!" and "Gosh I'm really tired today, I don't feel like going running - Oh my vo2max went up?!"

From an old but relevant post:

I've attached a firstbeat (the company behind Garmin's data) white paper that describes the method for assessing VO2max based on your Garmin 235. The short answer is yes, it can be as accurate as a lab based estimation. The error of the VO2max is about 5% or 3.5 ml/kg/min. However, the outputted value is highly dependent on the accuracy of the HRmax. The white paper suggests that using the 220-age calculation can cause the error to be -9 to +7% versus having an accurate lab assessed HRmax (or doing some sort of HRmax field test). Now let's say the Garmin outputs your VO2max as 40. A -9 to +7% inaccuracy means you have a window of 36.4-42.8.

As for the race prediction function, it's based on a look-up table similar or the same to Jack Daniels VDOT table (see here for actual Garmin VO2max = race predictions that someone put together). So once you have a VO2max value it simply refers to the chart and spits out race predictions. So the race predictions aren't based on any personal data (per se) other than the VO2max value. The catch is 1) the VO2max has to be accurate (which again is highly dependent on HRmax) and 2) these are an ideal scenario and not necessarily good expectations to have. The values in the VDOT are to be seen as maximal achievements for your VO2max. So for instance the marathon race prediction is based on a roughly 85% vVO2max value, but most people run in the 60-75% range. Very few actually achieve running a marathon at 85% vVO2max.

Now go back to the error and see what happens. A 40 VO2max is a 1:59 HM estimate. But a 36.4 is ~2:10 and 42.8 is ~1:51. Now that prediction went from 1:59 to 1:51-2:10 based purely on the error of the model. So my suggestion is the following - as long as you don't change the input personal data (primarily the HRmax, but also body weight), then you can watch your VO2max go up and down based on training. If you lose/gain weight, then the value will respond. If you change the HRmax, then the value will respond. I changed my HRmax from 196 (which I got earlier with my Garmin, but now know to be erroneous to 220-age (189)) and my VO2max dropped dramatically in a few days. I changed my HRmax again from 189 to 180 and my VO2max dropped again. I believe 180 is probably the most accurate by assessing my HR in races and using a Daniels %HR chart for different race distances. I used 4 distances and averaged the min/max of each distance together to get an estimate if I'm running these races near normal.

Personally, I have found that my HRvPace graph correlates very well in showing the same thing the VO2max score does

-HRvPace - I feel like this is a known entity. The relationship is quite tight to a logarithmic line of best fit. It's used to create the VO2max curves using Garmin and Firstbeat Tech.

The above graph is essentially what your Garmin is doing with the HR data and the pace data. It's taking the %HR of HRmax and comparing that to the pace at which you ran at the corresponding %HR. Then it's lining up those data points to determine where you are on the curve. What curve you fall on is then assigned a VO2max value.

So anything that influences HR is going to influence the VO2max output value. Increase in temps, causes increase in HR, causes decrease in Garmin VO2max value. Not because you did anything wrong in training, but rather it's a snapshot saying this is where your fitness is under the current conditions. Use caffeine, see an increase in HR, cause decrease in Garmin VO2max. Use Beetshot, see a decrease in HR, cause in increase in Garmin VO2max value.

One reason why you may see a decrease in Garmin VO2max value on an easy day (with a hard day proceeding it) is because your body is in a state of delayed onset muscle soreness and still recovering from the prior day's workout. So despite going easy, the body is still recovering and thus your HR may be slightly elevated during the easy run and therefore with that increase causes you to fall on a lower Garmin VO2max value line.

Your best bet on using the Garmin VO2max value is to look at large trends. What it does over weeks, months, years. Looking to micro (on the day scale) will drive you batty. Something like this that tracks my Garmin VO2max value on a weekly basis during different training cycles. Ultimately, the Garmin VO2max value is another tool and not the end all be all. I've had good races with relatively lower Garmin VO2max values proceeding it, and bad races with relatively higher Garmin VO2max values proceeding it. So it's useful to look at, but don't devote a ton of mental space to it.



ETA- I should add that the newer Garmin watches have a few new features since I originally wrote this above. My Garmin 245 is clearly using training load data to determine race predictor values and no long solely relies on the %HR v Pace relationship. Additionally, I believe some of the even fancier watches take the current temps into account when assessing its Garmin VO2max value.

 

[azrivest]

Looking to micro (on the day scale) will drive you batty.

Never have truer words been written

The above graph is essentially what your Garmin is doing with the HR data and the pace data. It's taking the %HR of HRmax and comparing that to the pace at which you ran at the corresponding %HR. Then it's lining up those data points to determine where you are on the curve. What curve you fall on is then assigned a VO2max value.

Yeah that's what I've been getting from my gut feeling for the past 3 years. And with temperatures starting to go up with summer coming, it's not gonna get any better


Thanks again for all your input

 

[azrivest]

Week 9 of 13 of my HM training plan, with a goal of 2:12

With 4 weeks to do, I'm entering my peak phase for two weeks, then taper for two weeks.

Did my first track workout ever on Thursday. Can't say I love going in circles like that, but it was fun to do speed intervals with my running group friends.

Today was supposed to be a 15k race that I was going to use as a trial for my half. Got cancelled for a number of reasons If it hadn't been cancelled, I could have even met @flav for the first time, was looking forward to that! Instead used my big brother as a pacer for my long run.

Summary:

• Running Distance = 37.87 km
• Running Time = 4h14
• S&C Time = 1h14 --> yay for me! Back in the saddle

Monday

• Rest day

Tuesday

• 3:1 intervals
• 5.57k in 37:04

Wednesday

• EB5k
• 5k in 34:36
• Did this run with DH, for the first time in many many months There are some advantages to working from home!
• McMillan Core Stage 3.1, for the first time in many many weeks. Today was a good day!

Thursday

• Did 1 hour yoga at lunch
• 16x 30':30' repeats + WU/CD
• 6.31k in 43:37
• The Strava map makes me dizzy
  
• According to our running group coach, I should do my 30' rest intervals slower so I can do my 30' run intervals faster. I was at about 7 min/mile speed so for me, that's pretty good I think.

Friday

• Moved my Saturday easy run up so I could move my Sunday long run up for Mother's day. My mom will never forgive me if I ever miss a Mother's Day Brunch, even for running...
• 3k @ EB pace
• 2.98k in 20:37

Saturday

• 18k @ LR pace
• Today was supposed to be my 15k race. Instead, ran this morning with my big brother, the ultra trail runner whose base pace is a good 3 minutes/mile faster than mine. I always end up going faster when running with him than my regular training pace.
• It went awesome. 18.01k in 1:58:02, so an average pace of 6:33/k or 10:30/mile, with an itinerary that was not easy with some very big hills. For me, that's a great rhythm. And what's better, I did not feel over tired at the end. I had gas left in the tank.

Sunday

• Rest day

After my long run this morning, I am feeling really good for my half on June 6th. Will I be able to reach my 2:12 target? I don't know, but this run has raised my confidence level.

Happy running!

 

[flav]

Week 9 of 13 of my HM training plan, with a goal of 2:12

With 4 weeks to do, I'm entering my peak phase for two weeks, then taper for two weeks.

Did my first track workout ever on Thursday. Can't say I love going in circles like that, but it was fun to do speed intervals with my running group friends.

Today was supposed to be a 15k race that I was going to use as a trial for my half. Got cancelled for a number of reasons If it hadn't been cancelled, I could have even met @flav for the first time, was looking forward to that! Instead used my big brother as a pacer for my long run.

Summary:

• Running Distance = 37.87 km
• Running Time = 4h14
• S&C Time = 1h14 --> yay for me! Back in the saddle

Monday

• Rest day

Tuesday

• 3:1 intervals
• 5.57k in 37:04

Wednesday

• EB5k
• 5k in 34:36
• Did this run with DH, for the first time in many many months There are some advantages to working from home!
• McMillan Core Stage 3.1, for the first time in many many weeks. Today was a good day!

Thursday

• Did 1 hour yoga at lunch
• 16x 30':30' repeats + WU/CD
• 6.31k in 43:37
• The Strava map makes me dizzy
  View attachment 667597
• According to our running group coach, I should do my 30' rest intervals slower so I can do my 30' run intervals faster. I was at about 7 min/mile speed so for me, that's pretty good I think.

Friday

• Moved my Saturday easy run up so I could move my Sunday long run up for Mother's day. My mom will never forgive me if I ever miss a Mother's Day Brunch, even for running...
• 3k @ EB pace
• 2.98k in 20:37

Saturday

• 18k @ LR pace
• Today was supposed to be my 15k race. Instead, ran this morning with my big brother, the ultra trail runner whose base pace is a good 3 minutes/mile faster than mine. I always end up going faster when running with him than my regular training pace.
• It went awesome. 18.01k in 1:58:02, so an average pace of 6:33/k or 10:30/mile, with an itinerary that was not easy with some very big hills. For me, that's a great rhythm. And what's better, I did not feel over tired at the end. I had gas left in the tank.

Sunday

• Rest day

After my long run this morning, I am feeling really good for my half on June 6th. Will I be able to reach my 2:12 target? I don't know, but this run has raised my confidence level.

Happy running!

It is great that you made the best of the situation and ran with your brother! We ran together DDrunner, DH and I yesterday, not the same as a race (we went slow), but family is so important.

 

[azrivest]

Week 10 of 13 of my HM training plan, with a goal of 2:12

Did my longest run of my plan and did speed intervals on the track with my running group again.

Like elsewhere in Central/Northeastern North America, we went from winter to summer in a matter of days. Probably not going to be ideal conditions for my Half in 3 weeks, T+D wise. I'll take it as it comes.

Oh and I received my new Encanto Dottie skirt in the mail on Friday. It is beyond gorgeous. It was expensive but I'm so glad I splurged. It's my birthday present a month early



Summary:

• Running Distance = 46.55 km
• Running Time = 5h37
• S&C Time = 49 minutes of yoga

Monday

• 5:2 intervals moved up from Tuesday
• 7.11k/4.42 miles in 51:01
• My 5 minutes intervals were in the 9:15-9:18 range, and I didn't feel done by the end of them

Tuesday

• Rest day

Wednesday

• EB7k
• 4.58 miles in 53:12
• Less than planned in my plan, but I went running at 5:15 am and had to get home to get ready for work
• Temps were in the mid 50s, so compared to the next day it was perfect

Thursday

• Did my regular Thursday yoga class at lunch
• 16x 30':30' repeats + WU/CD on the track
• 2.94 miles in 34 minutes
• It was hot that evening. I don't know what the dew point was, but Garmin says temps were in the mid 80s

Friday

• Rest day

Saturday

• Was supposed to be 40 minutes @ EB pace
• Went running early with a friend who was doing a virtual 7k.
• 4.44 miles in 48:49, with negative splits.
• It was already 70 at 7:30 in the morning

Sunday

• Longest run of my training plan - 20k with my running group
• Our average pace was in the 12-12:30 minute/mile range. I could definitely have run that 20k faster, but it felt more important to me to stay with the group than to run faster.
• I finished the last mile at 9:30 and I felt great
• Stopped after 2h30, following Billy's and others' expert advice to not do long runs of more than 2h30. The group continued (some ran for almost 3 hours) but I had achieved my goal.

Again, my confidence level is good. I really feel like I'm peaking, which is convenient since I'm in my peak phase

@DopeyBadger do I need to do anything special for heat acclimation? If this keeps up, I know I won't be in ideal conditions to PR, but is there anything I can do to help? I don't know if it's the same kind of HAT as in winter when we layer up in the days before going to Orlando.

Happy running!

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger do I need to do anything special for heat acclimation? If this keeps up, I know I won't be in ideal conditions to PR, but is there anything I can do to help? I don't know if it's the same kind of HAT as in winter when we layer up in the days before going to Orlando.

Yes, the heat acclimation training is the same as when we go from northern winters to FL racing in the winter. So you should attempt to overdress by 20-30F based on the conditions with poorly venting clothes. Also be careful when doing this not to push your body into a bad place. You can also try and shift your runs to the warmest part of the day since presumably the race will occur in the morning. This way what is mid-day heat today, might be comparable to morning heat in a few weeks.

 

[azrivest]

Week 11 of 13 of my HM training plan, with a goal of 2:12

Last run of peak phase, tomorrow starts my two-week taper until my half

Temps were nice in the middle of the week, but the weekend has been Considering my half is on June 5th, and like striker1064, it also starts at 9am (seriously?!?!) there's a good chance we could also have these hot temperatures. So I'll have to temper my expectations. A time of 2:12 will be in ideal conditions. My B-goal is <2:15.

Apart from that, work has been crazy. I've been working really long days and on some days, with work and running, I don't see my kids except for 30 minutes in the morning. I'm really grateful for my husband to let me go out even when I've been at work for 10 hours.

Summary:

• Running Distance = 39.33 km
• Running Time = 4h39
• S&C Time = None. It's amazing I got my 5 runs in with the work week I had

Monday

• Rest day

Tuesday

• 5:2 intervals + WU/CD
• 4.99k/3.1 miles in 33:08
• My 5 minutes intervals were at 9:14,9:18,9:15

Wednesday

• 8k/4.97 miles in 55:26 with my running group

Thursday

• Woke up at 4:45 to have time to do my short intervals before my kids woke up
• 16x 30':30' repeats + WU/CD
• 4.61k/2.87 miles in 34 minutes
• Could have pushed my intervals a bit more

Friday

• Rest day

Saturday

• Was supposed to be 40 minutes @ EB pace
• According to the weather network, at 11:30, T+D was 82+68
• Went running around that time to start getting used to the heat. If I want any chance of running a PR, I have to be able to handle the heat. Still tried to respect myself tho and slow down, with a T+D of 150
• 5.66k/3.52 miles in 40:24

Sunday

• 15k with my running group
• 16.06k/10 miles in 1:56:21
• T+D was 70+63 when we left at 9, so hot, but not as much as yesterday

Have I mentioned yet that I'm worried about the T+D for my race?

I also need to figure out which shoes I'm gonna race in. It's a toss up between my RC Elite 2 or my Endorphin Speeds. The Speeds will prolly help me pick up my feet more.

Happy running!

 

[HangWithMerida]

I hope your race conditions end up being ok. The temps you are training in would be really tough for racing. A lot can happen in 2 weeks so my fingers are crossed for you. Yesterday morning it was supposed to be 80F, sunny, 85% humidity at race start today for my 10k. Suddenly, a huge storm band pops up overnight and it was raining and 70F instead. You just never know.

 

[azrivest]

Week 12 of 13 of my HM training plan, with a goal of 2:12

My brain is mush tonight. Am going to do a short recap of the week.

Summary:

• Running Time = 3h42

On Tuesday, I did a tempo run with my Endorphin Speeds to test them out. I ran 20 minutes at HM pace and I felt great, so I was really excited. Other highlight was this little buddy I met in the park. One of the advantages of running super early, she and I were the only ones there (and I know it's a she cause last year she was hanging around with her litter):

Picture isn't great since I didn't want to get too close, and at 5:30 am the light wasn't great yet.

Wednesday was a group run, which are always easy.

Thursday, another very early morning run with 30:30 intervals.

Saturday, easy 30 minute run, but I ended up pushing the pace a bit. I have a hard time holding back in taper week.

Today, a 10k run with the group. At 9am, T+D was 119, which felt okay. Group pace always feels slow to me, so it forced me to hold back.



Forecast for next Sunday is overcast in the mid 70s, with lows in the mid 50s overnight. With the heat and humidity we had the past two weeks, I'll take it!

 

[azrivest]

@DopeyBadger do you think it's worth it to do any kind of GAP analysis for my race? Or should I try to set myself an intensity target on my watch? The course looks something like this:

That big bump is an overpass that is actually only a few blocks away from my house.

I'm aiming for 2:12, so was just gonna set a target of 10min/mile on my watch. But having run this course before, the last 3 miles of the race are uphill and can be hard. Maybe aiming to have a steady pace isn't the best strategy?

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger do you think it's worth it to do any kind of GAP analysis for my race? Or should I try to set myself an intensity target on my watch? The course looks something like this:
View attachment 672671
That big bump is an overpass that is actually only a few blocks away from my house.

I'm aiming for 2:12, so was just gonna set a target of 10min/mile on my watch. But having run this course before, the last 3 miles of the race are uphill and can be hard. Maybe aiming to have a steady pace isn't the best strategy?

That appears to be about 390 feet in 13.1 miles or about 30 feet per mile. So I think the GAP adjustment is going to average about 4-5 sec/mile. But individual miles could be as much as +30 sec/mile or so. So I'm always a fan of using the GAP data to help make more nuanced goal pacing decisions. Because not every mile is created equal, so neither should the splits.

Look up old results on the race webpage, then type those names into Strava to find a past participant. See if they have Strava Premium, or look at their race activity and see if Strava calls out a list of other runners who did the race.

 

[azrivest]

Weather forecast seems as best as I could possibly hope for, considering it's the beginning of June in Montreal. Hoping the weather is more towards 50 than 70 when the race starts at 9



I have quite a few aches and pains right now, like my left sciatic and my right knee. Those are just phantom taper pains right? I'm nervous but also feverish for Sunday. I can do this!

 

[HangWithMerida]

Good luck!! Definitely phantom pains! You got this!

 

[striker1064]

Best of luck on Sunday! Rest away those pains and you'll feel good as new Sunday morning.

 

[flav]

Breathe, smile, you can do this!

 

[azrivest]

Final time: 2:16:20. Not the PoT I was looking for. I neglected my strength training for this cycle and it showed. My legs just felt heavy the whole second half. So I'll take it as a good experience and learn and do better next time

 

[SheHulk]

Great attitude! I'll bet even just running a race in cooler temps would improve your time enough. Congrats on finishing with a great time given the conditions as they were.