I witnessed something very disturbing today (long)

[Princess89]

A spank on the butt is not child abuse. I don't think the child's actions warranted a spanking, but then again, I was not there, and I am not the child's parent. However, what I find most disturbing, are the words that came from a 2 and a half year olds mouth. No Daddy, not again, or something to that effect. Those words appear to prove that this has happened before. She (the child) is very young, and it makes me wonder just how long this has been going on and to what severity.

 

[jenm2878]

I said this on another thread recently, and will repeat it here...Any MAN who acts like that in PUBLIC...IS DOING MUCH WORSE THINGS in private.

Not necessarily. This actually reminded me of something that happened when my brother and I were little. I remember going to a restaurant and my brother and I were being awful all day. (fighting, hitting, being loud, etc) My dad told us multiple times to quit, we didn't, and he finally got up, grabbed us each by an arm, and dragged us out of the restaurant. I think we might have gotten spanked but we also got a stern talking to. When we went to go back inside, the manager told us to leave and never come back. To the outside observer it must have looked like my dad was a horribly abusive man who beat his family silly. NOT true. I can count on one hand how many times I got spanked.

My dad was an incredibly loving and devoted family man. He just expected us to behave in public and we were working his last nerve that day.

 

[meandtheguys2]

My brother has never spanked either of his children, but when my niece is bad he'll pick her up and set her on the 'naughty step.' (she's almost three) She too will cry and say, "No Daddy!! No!!!!" Five minutes later she's back to smiling and laughing.


No one knows what went on the rest of the day that led up to the spanking. I've read on the DIS numerous times how people shouldn't judge others parenting based on a moment they witness. I'm not defending the man's actions, but no one really knows the whole story.

LOL, my child once screamed "mommy don't kill me" at my in-laws, when I busted (figuratively speaking...) him writing on the walls. Believe it or not...I had never actually killed him before...

I don't know whether the father abuses his daughter. No one does. Spanking in anger is never a good idea. Just like verbal abuse is not a good idea. But judging people from snapshots is ignorant at best.

 

[portia9]

Personally, I find the spanking the least upsetting part of the story. I find the unrealistic expectations, the jerking, the yanking, etc. much more problematic.

I agree.

 

[portia9]

The fact that so many of you think a 2-3 yr old child isn't capable of sitting QUIETLY (which is what he was initially correcting) amazes me and also explains to me all the posts about having to take a car seat to contain their child on an airplane because they won't sit and the misbehaving kids at Disney. A child even at 2 is capable of knowing to sit and wait for a bit without fussing. I would have corrected mine for "whimpering" or whatever it is being called. They don't need entertained constantly they can sit quietly in a public place if that is what is demanded of them. Kids used to behave in church without gameboys.

I think the father went overboard but at least he was trying and again spanking especially only 3 swats is not abuse. And if the office thought it was abuse I'm sure they would have called they don't need someone else telling them to, they were there to.

SOME kids are capable of sitting quietly at 2 and some are not. I have 2 that have always been easy to take anywhere and 2 that well let's just sat are not.

 

[portia9]

I've read the OP's story 3 times and I still fail to see any 'abuse'. Spanking is not abuse. Many parents 'drag their kids across the floor' (which is rarely as it sounds) and many kids scream out "don't" and cry away whenever they're in big trouble. It's so easy to parent from the internet and apparently the majority of DIS posters have perfect children who don't need disciplining.

I think it is disgusting what this man did and I certainly don't have perfect children that don't need disciplining. The notion of that is pretty amusing actually

 

[3jsmommy]

I am truely amazed by some of the comments on this thread. Do people really believe it is o.k to hit a 2 1/2 year old who can´t/won´t stop whimpering? Do you guys really think that this 2 1/2 year old got "enough" chances???

If an adult like melsmice was disturbed by this fathers actions, imagine what the poor baby felt?

Its more than a hit on the bottom, its was threats and curse words used in a abusive manner. Abusive words & actions cut deeper then a hit on the butt!

I said this on another thread recently, and will repeat it here...Any MAN who acts like that in PUBLIC...IS DOING MUCH WORSE THINGS in private.

ITA!
I think some posters like to act tough & old school because they are fed up w/ what they perceive as spoiled undisciplined children.
I often hear people on these boards say things about undisciplined children & how they would say something to the parents if they saw a child behave a certain way. So if MELSMICE said something about the behavior of the father she would have been out of place?
I would LIKE to think that most people would have the same reaction of disgust at the fathers behavior as the OP.
Then again some of the things I hear on these boards make me believe some people just don't like children. As horrible as that sounds, I have met people like this & I think (in my unprofessional opinion )it is usually some deep rooted insecurity in my opinion...or they could just be miserable people!

If anyone thinks that toddlers acting up or whimpering is a new phenomenon I have to say you are mistaken, they have been misbehaving since the beginning of time, probably because they are not born as "perfect" as there parents!
This squirming, whining, messy act is not the result of some new crunchy, irresponsible parents!
I am sure the neanderthals hit their children, but then I would hope we have grown more civilized since then....now I offened the Geico caveman!

 

[MELSMICE]

People who were saying that a two-year-old has the attention span to just sit quietly. For the father to lose his patience like that they must have been there for a while. If it wasn't a long amount of time, the fact that he had to hit his two-year-old THREE times for his inability to keep her entertained is even sadder.

They were probably there about 30 minutes. 10 minutes maybe of waiting - he got his shot & then you have to sit for another 20 minutes in case of reaction.

The little girl had come in & immediately starting playing with the toys & reading books. Extremely well behaved.

Dad left for his shot, she asked to play with the purse, mom said no. Lydia sat on the chair & pouted/cried/whimpered. Typical reaction for a 2 1/2 year old not getting what she wanted. She wasn't even loud. Not even disruptive to others in the waiting area. Hardly even noteworthy.

It was when the dad came back to ask why she was whimpering that the incident began.

You're probably over exaggerating. He gave her enough chances. Any 2.5 yr old is quite the pain in the butt.

You're being sarcastic, right?

 

[ameraumi]

They were probably there about 30 minutes. 10 minutes maybe of waiting - he got his shot & then you have to sit for another 20 minutes in case of reaction.

The little girl had come in & immediately starting playing with the toys & reading books. Extremely well behaved.

Dad left for his shot, she asked to play with the purse, mom said no. Lydia sat on the chair & pouted/cried/whimpered. Typical reaction for a 2 1/2 year old not getting what she wanted. She wasn't even loud. Not even disruptive to others in the waiting area. Hardly even noteworthy.

It was when the dad came back to ask why she was whimpering that the incident began.


You're being sarcastic, right?

Ok, so she was whimpering because she did not get her way. It had nothing to do with sitting in the office. In this case, yes, the child is very capable of stopping the whining.

I agree, there is a time and a place for a spanking. And I hardly call 3 smacks on the bottom a beating.

 

[suzannen]

I teach mutual respect. And that's how I've raised my children as well. Never spanked them. They're also extremely well-behaved and well-mannered.

Respect and love go a long way when it comes to building character.

Violence just instills hatred and fear.

This about sums it up for me.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

I felt sick to my stomach when I read the OP story. Come on. I have seven children and four are grown. They all turned out very well, no problems at all and I did not have to "Spare the Rod or Spoil the Child". Now I'm not saying I never spanked at all, but honestly it was usually when I was having a bad time. A 21/2 year being treated like that for whimpering? I agree with the other posters who said it makes you wonder what goes on in private if that's how they act in public.

I really can't understand the Mom who just sat there, unless she has problems of her own with her husband. 30 minutes is a long time for most two year olds to sit still without something to distract them, ask any pre-school or daycare teacher.

So sorry to the OP that she had to witness this.

 

[MELSMICE]

Ok, so she was whimpering because she did not get her way. It had nothing to do with sitting in the office. In this case, yes, the child is very capable of stopping the whining.

I agree, there is a time and a place for a spanking. And I hardly call 3 smacks on the bottom a beating.

Maybe I just have more patience, but I didn't see it as an issue at all that she started crying/whimpering because she didn't get her way. Like I said, typical reaction for a child that age.

Not something to get yourself (not you, the father) in such a tizzy that you have to treat your child that way.

Many other ways to handle it. Such as, "Lydia, you are not allowed to play with mommie's purse & there is no reason to cry about it either. We can read a book together or play with these blocks". (said in a stern voice).

No hitting, no yelling & most likely, less crying because she wasn't smacked.

 

[DisneyPhD]

If an adult like melsmice was disturbed by this fathers actions, imagine what the poor baby felt?

Its more than a hit on the bottom, its was threats and curse words used in a abusive manner. Abusive words & actions cut deeper then a hit on the butt!

I said this on another thread recently, and will repeat it here...Any MAN who acts like that in PUBLIC...IS DOING MUCH WORSE THINGS in private.

I agree. Some people's opinions I take with a grain of salt, Melsmice is not one of those. If it really upset her, my guess is my meter would be on the same page.

I also agree, if this is how he acts in front of people, what is he doing at home?

pigletgirl, I hope you are being sarcastic or are very young (or both.) Then again my 16 year old niece has a lot better judgment then that (so not all young people would think that way.)

Melsmice, if the father normally reacts this way I would be surprised that the mother would even tell him what was wrong. You think she would at least want to protect her daughter. The whole thing just seems off.

 

[connorlevismom]

If an adult like melsmice was disturbed by this fathers actions, imagine what the poor baby felt?

Its more than a hit on the bottom, its was threats and curse words used in a abusive manner. Abusive words & actions cut deeper then a hit on the butt!
I said this on another thread recently, and will repeat it here...Any MAN who acts like that in PUBLIC...IS DOING MUCH WORSE THINGS in private.

I agree 100%. While I don't think she should have been spanked, speaking to kids in a manner such as this is just heartbreaking to me. People act as if kids don't have any feelings at all and should take someone verbally beating them down over and over. How would they like to be talked to like that? Probably not.

Kristine

 

[MELSMICE]

I agree. Some people's opinions I take with a grain of salt, Melsmice is not one of those. If it really upset her, my guess is my meter would be on the same page.

Melsmice, if the father normally reacts this way I would be surprised that the mother would even tell him what was wrong. You think she would at least want to protect her daughter. The whole thing just seems off.

First, thank you for respecting my opinion. I appreciate that.

The mom didn't try to comfort her daughter. In fact, after a few minutes, Lydia walked up to her mother & she casually put her hand on her back, then pulled it away again. Strange.

United front with the parents maybe, but that's just not how things are done in my house (hitting) so the whole thing was disturbing to me.

 

[Mkaz]

Teachers and principals should still be able to spank students when necessary. Kids today know that teachers/principals "can't touch them" and so many parents are of the "time out" mindset so kids know they can get away with a whole heck of a lot more than they used to. Sad.

I respectfully disagree. I do not want my children to become fearful of the people who are teaching them. I want them to respect them, not fear them. There is a big difference between respect and fear.

I don't think that a 2 1/2 year old child will learn that what she was doing was wrong by spanking. I would have removed her from the situation. They will learn from that. My son acted out in the grocery store one day. He was about 3 years old at the time. I left an entire cart of groceries and we left. My daughter was mortified, but I told her that he wouldn't do it again. Sure enough I have not had a problem with him since. I am not against a tap on the tush, but she is 2 1/2 for goodness sake.

 

[meandtheguys2]

I respectfully disagree. I do not want my children to become fearful of the people who are teaching them. I want them to respect them, not fear them. There is a big difference between respect and fear.

I don't think that a 2 1/2 year old child will learn that what she was doing was wrong by spanking. I would have removed her from the situation. They will learn from that. My son acted out in the grocery store one day. He was about 3 years old at the time. I left an entire cart of groceries and we left. My daughter was mortified, but I told her that he wouldn't do it again. Sure enough I have not had a problem with him since. I am not against a tap on the tush, but she is 2 1/2 for goodness sake.

My 3 year olds would have been thrilled to leave the grocery store! And I wouldn't leave a full cart for the staff to put away.

We've done time-outs everywhere. I love the looks from people at WDW... I guess they'd rather I'd let my kids misbehave. And I do believe that a child needs to learn not to fuss when they are told "no." I don't remember whether mine had it down at that age or not, but they did know how to sit still in church or at dinner. (Places from which I would remove a child.)

 

[Mkaz]

My 3 year olds would have been thrilled to leave the grocery store! And I wouldn't leave a full cart for the staff to put away.

We've done time-outs everywhere. I love the looks from people at WDW... I guess they'd rather I'd let my kids misbehave. And I do believe that a child needs to learn not to fuss when they are told "no." I don't remember whether mine had it down at that age or not, but they did know how to sit still in church or at dinner. (Places from which I would remove a child.)

I felt extremely bad for leaving the cart. Like I said, it took just that one time and he learned his lesson. He loves to go shopping with me, so trust me this was a punishment for him.

 

[Buckalew11]

Maybe I just have more patience, but I didn't see it as an issue at all that she started crying/whimpering because she didn't get her way. Like I said, typical reaction for a child that age.

Not something to get yourself (not you, the father) in such a tizzy that you have to treat your child that way.

Many other ways to handle it. Such as, "Lydia, you are not allowed to play with mommie's purse & there is no reason to cry about it either. We can read a book together or play with these blocks". (said in a stern voice).

No hitting, no yelling & most likely, less crying because she wasn't smacked.

I understood that she was whimpering because she did not get her way and was whimpering/cring because she was not allowed in mommy's purse.
When dd was 2/3 years old it was so easy to distract her...let's read a book, a magazine, play with the toys in the office waiting area. Sounds like the mom wasn't even trying to occupy her. She was being ignored, really. What was the mom doing anyway?

I just think both of these parents sound like the could use a clue.

When one leaves with a child from a store, it doesn't always mean you aren;t going back in for a second try. And if you do leave, trust me, "getting to leave the store" will not be a fun thing.

 

[meandtheguys2]

I felt extremely bad for leaving the cart. Like I said, it took just that one time and he learned his lesson. He loves to go shopping with me, so trust me this was a punishment for him.

I knew that came out wrong. Just thinking aloud. Didn't mean to offend.