I saw Michael Eisner on the Today show this morning.

mdhkitten said:
Save Disney
Roy Disney and Stanley Gold's effort to reposition company. Includes board resignation letters and letter to staff, with related links.
www.savedisney.com/



Just for anyone that was interested, the above was the site started by Roy Disney and Stanley Gold when they were basically forced to resign from the board. Once Eisner resigned, they changed the site to www.saveddisney.com


Just thought you might find this interesting! :goodvibes

I had a SaveDisney bumperstick on my suv, but took it off the day Eisner was history!!!!!!!! :)
 
I agree with some others here....ME being some of both. In the start he was a part of a great team that turned things around for the Disney Co.

But as time went on, his relationships turned on him. Jeffrey Katzenberger for one being a major influence. And Frank Wells passing took the wind out of his sails, IMO.

His people, the ones he relied on, began to fade. It takes more than one man to run a company of that size. And you are only as good as the folks who work for you.

So it seems he began to withdraw, and with that, he began to micro-manage. And that doesnt sit well with people, especially creative ones.

His era will be or should be remembered for a lot of the good things he AND his team did for Disney. Which includes the animation dept. coming back to life (then being killed off). The resurgence of the theme parks including a great addition to the resorts and restaurants. And most of all, bringing the Disney name back to the forefront of the entertainment industry.
 
KatheeME said:
I had a SaveDisney bumperstick on my suv, but took it off the day Eisner was history!!!!!!!! :)


Unfortunately, I'm having problems getting mine off of my car because it seems to be "superglued"! LOL That's ok, I don't mind it staying! :teeth:
 
Let's not forget that once he took over he squashed all threats of a takeover from outside companies. When he came in the stock was way underpriced and his aquisitions changed this.....now towards the end of his tenure it started to revert back....that's why Comcast tried what they did...very enticing for other companies having an undervalued stock price.
 

KatheeME said:
I had a SaveDisney bumperstick on my suv, but took it off the day Eisner was history!!!!!!!! :)


I miss the quote of the day from Walt..........did you used to get those when savedisney.com was around? Do they do those at saveddisney.com now? :)
 
bicker said:
Flooding the parks, yes, not the resorts. The Polynesian had never been affordable for average Americans until after Eisner took over.


Do you think that because we're not on the rumors board you can get away with this unchallenged?

Those Hotels had a 2 year lead time to book in some cases. They were packed full. Even the campground. People were flooding the resorts as well as the park

Yes certainly it cost more then the average motel 6, but it was a significantly greater "VALUE" then any Disney hotel today.
Plus, WDW's visitation patterns were totally different. The average time between visits was 5 years. People saved up so they could stay at the resorts.

The off peak season was significantly more offpeak then it is today.
 
raidermatt said:
Dancing Bear's list is a good example of why we see so many people either loving or hating Eisner. Take just those "goods" and things sound pretty impressive. Take just the bads and its downright depressing.

Of course, the truth is somewhere in the middle, as is almost always the case. But what makes me side squarely on the "Eisner was bad" side is the way he systematically destroyed much of the spirit and soul of the company.

Walt made mistakes. Eisner had successes. We know this. But the company had a mission and purpose under Walt that really doesn't exist today. I'm not saying that changes weren't necessary. But that spirit and soul were the things that needed to survive. Those are the things that drew us all to Disney, whether we understood why or not.

Now, its a lot harder to find those things within Disney, and that is the one thing I point to as the crux of Eisner's legacy. There's a lot of executives who would have built hotels, parks, etc, and debating who would have done better is a pointless exercise, especially 20+ years later.

But Eisner nearly (some say completely) killed the soul of the company, and I can't find a way to excuse that. Sure, the spirit still exists in some individuals, but the company as a whole is a shadow of its former self in that respect.

::yes::
 
IMO he did great things, but he was on track to undo them all had he not been replaced. Maybe they still will be undone, but at least now they have a chance.
 
YoHo said:
Do you think that because we're not on the rumors board you can get away with this unchallenged?

Maybe next time you'll actually address what he said.
 
I think the man is a corporate genius. I also think he stayed too long. Most CEO's need to go after a while. New vision is necessary to change things so they don't get stale. To depict Mr. Eisner as some sort of evil is ridiculous. The man saved the company and turned it into a profit generator. Under his reign hotels opened, two theme parks, one incredibly successful cruise line, many blockbuster movies, and the desire of families to return year after year after year. Haard to call that "evil".
 
mdhkitten said:
Unfortunately, I'm having problems getting mine off of my car because it seems to be "superglued"! LOL That's ok, I don't mind it staying! :teeth:

If you REALLY want to get it off, goobegone is fantastic! :)
 
mdhkitten said:
I miss the quote of the day from Walt..........did you used to get those when savedisney.com was around? Do they do those at saveddisney.com now? :)

I loved getting them as well. But alas ... the website was closed down when Roy was put back on the board ... and Evil Eisner on his way out!
 
raidermatt said:
If you don't want to hear the "corporate stuff", read no further.

Just a little clarification first. Disney was "saved" essentially by Roy, Stanley Gold, and the Bass Brothers, with Roy being the driving force. It was that team that stopped the Michael Milkens of the world from breaking Disney into pieces and selling it off.

When it came time to put forth a management team, they wanted Frank Wells as the #1 guy, Eisner as the #2. Eisner was to provide the Hollywood clout it was felt Disney needed to move forward, but Wells was the business guy who was going to run the show. Eisner, however, would not accept the #2 position. Time was of the essence, and there weren't any other Hollywood bigwigs available at the time that were viewed as appealling options.

So, all agreed Eisner could be the head honcho, with Wells as President. However, Wells would not report to Eisner, but would report directly to the Board, just as Eisner did. (If you are really interested in how all of this went down, read "Storming the Magic Kingdom". Its not an anti-Eisner piece and primarily focuses on how the takeover/breakup was avoided and how Eisner/Wells came to be the new leaders.)

Disney was going to expand with or without Eisner, and with or without a breakup. The biggest reason it was a takeover target in the first place was not that it was necessarily performing all that badly. It was that it had a bunch of assets sitting around not doing anything. All that land in Florida was going to be worth a lot more developed than undeveloped, and Disney wasn't moving fast enough. The film library was just sitting there, for the most part.

So whoever bought WDW, for example, or whoever was brought in to run the company was going to start building stuff. Hotels and parks were going to happen. Eisner and Wells were not the only guys thinking this should happen. They were brought in to execute what everybody knew had to happen.

You can't credit Eisner, or even Wells, with the fact that things were built. The question is HOW did these things happen, and was it done optimally. (I'll leave that one alone for now.)

So was Eisner "good" or "bad"? Nothing is absolute. Certainly some of the things done under his watch turned out quite well. However, from many accounts (not just one book), he clashed with many of the other executives during those first 10 years, including Wells and Katzenberg. Many (though not all) of the creations we consider "winners" were actually done in spite of Eisner, not because of him.

What's also clear is that after the death of Wells, Eisner gained complete control of the company, and many say that things started going downhill at that point. Several years later, as the impact of Eisners complete control of strategic decisions was felt, the company's fianancial performance started stagnating. Still making money of course, but not performing as expected, and this has been reflected in the stock price since.

Really, the only question is did Eisner really change after Wells' death, or did we simply start seeing the impacts of what he would have always been capable of if in complete control? I think its the latter, but many think Eisner really did work well as part of the team at first. Either way, most agree he eventually overstayed his welcome, at least in part because he had so much control over the company and the board.

well stated......:worship: :worship: :worship:
 
bicker said:
Flooding the parks, yes, not the resorts. The Polynesian had never been affordable for average Americans until after Eisner took over.

cardaway said:
Maybe next time you'll actually address what he said.

If Mr. YoHo doesn't mind, I'll take that one.

A couple of years before Mr. Eisner had any influence, in 1982, the cheapest room during regular season at the Polynesian was $85. That year, the median household income (average Americans) was $24,560. So, a week at the Polynesian ($595) was 126% of the average American's weekly income ($472).

A couple of years before Mr. Eisner relinquished influence, in 2003, the cheapest room during regular season at the Polynesian was $344. That year, the median household income (average Americans) was $54,453. So, a week at the Polynesian ($2,408) was 230% of the average American's weekly income ($1,047).

Now, how's that more affordable?
 
Maybe next time you'll actually address what he said.

Now, now. He talked about the value, which does address the point.

But to address it more directly, the idea that average families couldn't afford to stay at the Disney resorts is simply not true. The rates bear it out.

In fact, it was the combination of unutilized land and under-priced hotel rooms (vs. market) that made WDW such an underutilized asset at the time, and therefore an attractive takevoer target.

Of course it can be argued that the lower than market pricing was a valid long term strategy, and that the problem could have been rectified with expansions alone.
 
Thanks, guys
1: Peter, it is not opinion, it is FACT as All Aboard easily demonstrated. A week at the Polynesian cost a family less versus their annual income in 1982 then it did in 2003. The amenities were the same, therefore, the Value was better. No opinion. The various theme parks hhad their own admission and thus their value is seperate.

2: cardaway, This has also been addressed by Matt and All Aboard, but I'll restate it.
I did directly address bicker's post, so I don't know what you're talking about.

The Poly has never been cheap, it used to be a great value. Heck, that's part of why Disney was under threat from corporate raiders. It was a little to great a value.


The following is an editorial based on facts
Affordability is a relative thing. As are attendence patterns. In the mid to late 90s, there was a huge increase in families with disposable income and a huge increase in the debt to income ratio of the average american. Eisner was not responsible for the increase in Wealth and debt of those people. All he did was exploit it by encouraging repeat visitors rather then getting new visitors. Which ultimatly backfired when the internet slumped. Suddenly all these free spenders had no money and bad credit. Now Disney has a much smaller base to pull from and many are locked into DVC rather then going to the resorts. Few plans to convince people to save up those 5 years. And the people that are still doing it are booking the All-Stars and poop century meaning Disney's profit per guest is down. Had Eisner not jumped at the chance to cater to the repeate visitors and simply maintained the steady improvments and level of infrastructure that had been working so well since the early 70s, Disney would be in a much better place. Coupled with that, if they hadn't built the Values or possibly even the moderates and kept the Deluxe resort price increases more linear, they'd be maintaining their typical 90% occupancy at hirgher profit per guest.


They made the same kind of mistakes that the internet startups and networking hardware vendors made during the late 90s. It's lucky that wasn't their whole business.
 
YoHo said:
1: Peter, it is not opinion, it is FACT as All Aboard easily demonstrated. A week at the Polynesian cost a family less versus their annual income in 1982 then it did in 2003. The amenities were the same, therefore, the Value was better. No opinion. The various theme parks hhad their own admission and thus their value is seperate.

I have to jump back in. What Peter described as your opinion was the following line:

YoHo said:
Yes certainly it cost more then the average motel 6, but it was a significantly greater "VALUE" then any Disney hotel today.

That IS an opinion. Maybe the Poly was indeed a slightly better value in 1972 than it is now, adjusted for inflation. I do know my parents complained for years about how expensive the Poly was after that, and we never stayed onsite again.

But what Peter cited as an opinion was your statement that Poly in the old days was a better "value" than ANY Disney hotel today. I have to disagree with this opinion. I can't see how a week's stay at the Poly in 1972 or 1983 or whenever, adjusted for inflation, would be a bigger "value" than staying at Pop Century or All-Stars now. I'd be interested to see the inflation-adjusted numbers for that comparison.

Now you might counter that the Poly has the monorail and the boats to MK, and is all in all a magical place to stay (I've done it twice as an adult - I know and agree), but to assign "value" to these things, versus maybe a little less theming and having to ride buses everywhere from a value resort is strictly opinion, and one I subscribe to, actually. But still opinion.

As for getting profits from guests, the flip-side can be argued. The values and moderates definitely give middle-class Americans more opportunity to stay onsite than the Deluxe-only options did in the old days, both in terms of availability and in price. Maybe there is less profitability per guest in All-Stars than in the Poly, but they at least get those guests onsite now, rather than completely offsite.

As for WDW being "overbuilt" now with resorts, I don't know. I don't know what the availability is for the values and moderates, but the deluxes are getting hard to book again. Not a 2-year wait list, but definitely harder than it was in 2001 when I went to the Poly for my first time as an adult. I think (and this is my opinion ;) ) that room availability in 1972, 1982 and now is more a function of the overall health of the tourist economy, rather than Eisner's decision to massively expand the resort offerings.
 
Now see I'd disagree with you. Not everyone cares about those amenities. maybe not everyone cares about themeing or monorails, or room service, or package delivery, or views, but in 1982, you still got them. Sure, maybe the pop century costs less versus yearly income today, but you don't get anywhere near the number of amenities.
If Disney were to be as valuable today as it was then, you'd have the Polynesian keeping it's rates in line with the percentage annual income it had in 1982, and the moderates and deluxes would cost even less.

Nobody said that every single visitor to Disney wants to have the Amenities of the Poly, but what I am saying is that it cost less in 1982 to get those amenities then it does now. And what that means is that the Value and moderate hotels are also not as good a value.

Here, when I get home from work, I'll show you the math that proves it.
 


Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE








DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Back
Top Bottom