I need help with new discipline ideas!

paigevz

<font color=blue>I work on the other side<br><font
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Oct 5, 2004
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I had THE worst day yesterday! We have simple rules and consequences.........actually, I model my rules lesson after Snow White and the dwarves. Consequences are mainly time off recess, notes home, and having to move your desk away from others or go to another room if you can't be productive without being disruptive. There's a set sequence that must be followed for the entire grade level.

Okay, we start off with M rolling around in the floor during morning duties/handwriting time. They are supposed to go to the restroom, fill their water bottles, choose their lunch, sharpen their pencils, and do handwriting during this time. She refuses to get off the floor, until I'm literally standing over her and say, very firmly, "M. Get up and step into the hall with me, right now." So, she does, I go out and give her the lowdown on why she can not roll around on the floor, and that she is not doing her job, etc.

Now, I was just outside the classroom door and could see into the room. I can see C taking everyone's backpacks and putting them in his locker. When I go back in, I instruct C to give them back their backpacks and get himself ready for the day. Now, J and J begin chasing each other around the room! I stop them, tell everyone that I will be bringing them sharpened pencils, and to sit and get out handwriting books now..........no more jobs this morning.
C doesn't do it, so I reiterate my instruction to him alone. He sits near my desk, so I can monitor him closely, as we've had big trouble with him already this year.

I go checking on handwriting, and two of my girls are cheating on their spelling work that was supposed to be turned in yesterday. While I'm busy explaining to one that cheating won't help her friend, and the other that her friend can't follow her around all her life helping her, and that the answers may be wrong anyway, C takes advantage of my busy-ness to rip the backing off a shelf that is near his desk and reach through the back to get a pair of scissors. All C's scissors (he had three pairs) are residing in my desk drawer until a lesson calls for scissors because he cuts up his pencils and folders with them. He proceed to cut up the new pencil I just gave him. I take the scissors from C and tell him to begin his handwriting..........he's done nothing to this point.

We put up handwriting to take our Friday tests..........there are the usual "what was number 5?"s and "how am I supposed to know THAT?" comments during the tests, but relative calm other than that and C's normal loud laughter that punctuates our day. We have an early recess this year, so at 10:00, we go to the designated teachers' rooms, as it's so hot outside right now, it'll boil their little brains in a matter of minutes. While recess is going on, I have tutorials...........which is full of kids from Mrs. N's class who didn't do homework.............I have one child who continually talks, so I have to move him, and inform Mrs. N. After recess, I am told by the recess teacher that C has chewed up her foam math manipulatives during recess time........he normally chews his erasers, and I guess these were similar consistency.

C now has to go to another teacher's room according to our discipline chart. He brings his language book and assignment. Meanwhile, I am told to go down to first grade to meet my new student, who is being moved up to second because, although he's never been in school before, he is 8 years old and first grade is not an appropriate placement. An assistant watches my room while I go to meet D. I bring D back, explain the assignment, and continue with reading groups as the rest of the class does language. When I have finished my 3rd reading group, D has now finished the assignment, while 6 of mine have not.

We go to lunch. At lunch, I am informed by Mrs. S, whose room C went to, that he ripped up his language book in her room. C now has to have a disciplinary referral to the office, which I have to write out during lunch. After filling it out, I collect C from the cafeteria to take to the office, but they have an issue involving 5th grade boys and the police, so I have to bring him back to class with me. Upon returning to the cafeteria to collect my class, the duty teacher, Mrs. M, tells me that two of my boys were in a fist fight at the table, and M and J were throwing a pudding cup at each other. C begins bumping bodily into kids while I am lining them up, so I put him against the far wall, where he proceeds to dance and make faces. I take him in the hall and explain that he is in school, he will behave like a 2nd grader, he will follow the rules because they are there for his learning and safety, and he will stop doing what he's doing immediately, no ifs, ands, or buts. One of the police officers passing stops to watch, and I am embarrassed, but he gives me a thumbs-up.

Of course, all the kids who acted up should have time off recess according to our plan, but recess was over two hours ago. So now what? I tell them they are taking notes home to parents. M's dad arrives to bring her medication which he forgot to give her this morning. He hears about the floor-rolling and pudding cup throwing and tells me he wants to punish her in front of the class. I discourage this. He wants it announced over the intercom that M is bad. I tell him we won't do that. I suggest that since she throws snacks, perhaps she shouldn't be allowed to buy snacks for a time at lunch.

Back in the classroom, I get everyone settled with math. I am pleased to see D is doing well. Someone must've taught him at home. M is busy too. L is buzzing and humming, but he's working. I am helping two girls with a story problem, when C throws a spitwad straight at me and hits me in the shoulder. As I said, he sits right near my desk, facing me, and looked at me before he threw it. All activity stops. The children wait to see what will happen. I tell C to step into the hall. He laughs loudly all the way across the room. The children are all whispering to each other, "He's laughing at her!"

We are now going to specials, so I ask another teacher to take mine with hers. I take C back to the office. They are still busy with the 5th graders. I will not have C just come back to class as if nothing has happened, so I stop instead at a 3rd grade room and ask Mrs. R to keep him until the AP can see him. I bring him his dictionary work..........we've spent two weeks looking up 12 words, but C has done none whatsoever.

When I get back to my room, I have an email from M's mother about the pudding throwing. It's a supportive email, but requires a response, so I take time to do that. I still haven't had lunch. In the middle of answering the email, H's mom calls to discuss the fact that H took two hours to do her homework last night. H's mom has four kids and doesn't have time for that. H needed to read a book, write the title and author, copy a question from a sheet of questions, then write an answer...............and draw pictures for 6 vocabulary words and label with the word. I explain it shouldn't have taken H that much time, and that she also takes a long time to do work in class. Usually, she is playing with school supplies or talking to neighbors. She says H is distracted by the TV at homework time. I suggest keeping the TV off until H is done.

While I'm talking, the AP comes in to talk about C. He asks me to call C's mother while he talks with C. C's mother doesn't answer home, work says she's left, and doesn't answer cell. I then call another district to try to get school records on my other new student...........we have thus far been unable to determine if he ever arrived in his new school when he left ours last January, and we would like to know if he should be placed in a first grade room instead of my 2nd grade room.

AP brings C back just in time to get the kids from specials. I scrap the regular Social Studies lesson to go back over rules, consequences, and reasons. The kids all copy down the rules and consequences. They are to have them signed by parents and bring back Monday in order to have center time. After school, C's mom says she got my message, and we talk about what happened today. C will be using his pocket money for half the cost of the book, and doing "appropriate work" for the other half at school according to AP.

3:30..........I take time to eat my lunch before going home to my kids.
I consider alternate careers.
I decide to post on the DIS for ideas on different discipline
techniques since mine aren't working.

Note: I am not brand new. I've been teaching for some years, and I've not had a day like this in about 4 years. OUCH!

Anybody? Beuller?
 
:earseek: Good Grief! :earseek: What a day! :earseek: I can't imagine and I teach preschool!!!!!!! :earseek:

Some Bailey's and hot chocolate or coffee after dinner is my only suggestion. :)
 
I'm sorry, I have no advice, but you have my utmost admiration and God Bless you for being a teacher!
 
I have no ideas on discipline in the classroom but BLESS YOU for putting up with all of that. I cant imagine having to deal with stuff like that on a daily basis. I dont know how teachers do it. I have fun just with my two. I cant imagine 20-25! :hug: to you for all you do!
 

Wow! You've got your hands full. Time to get the parent volunteers into the room. Also, are there any work study students from nearby Universities? You need more adults in the room so you can do more teaching. Sounds like re-assigning some seats may be necessary too. C sounds like he/she needs an aide, does he have an IEP? M sounds like a piece of work too. My son's class was like this for two years. Thankfully, we had parent volunteers every day, sometimes more than one. Also, we had a work study student and another university student with some other description there to help a few days a week. Last, the teachers had job share=each was there 1/2 day. They had most of the "behavior" issue students in their class for this reason. I volunteered twice a week and two of those very active children took a liking to me so when I was there, we sat together and I helped them stay on task or get caught up. Some days, there was nothing one could do. Ya gotta wonder what is going on with those kids. My heart goes out to them AND to you.
 
I don't have any advice, but you really deserve an award! I am serious. a student like C would drive me crazy!
 
Man what a day!! I admire you greatly. I don't know how you kept your temper.
I could say "get a paddle and use it" but guess that isn't the "proper" thing to do now a days.... LOL. Would have worked when I was a kid though.
Bless you. I have no ideas as far a discipline is concerned. But get a glass of wine and a nice warm soak in the tub. You deserve at LEAST that!!
You sure sound like a great teacher.

Cathy
 
Sounds like one of my classes I'm with. Your doing everything my teacher does. She does have volunteers though, so maybe check into that. Good luck and hope it gets better soon :grouphug:
 
shortbun said:
Wow! You've got your hands full. Time to get the parent volunteers into the room. Also, are there any work study students from nearby Universities? You need more adults in the room so you can do more teaching. Sounds like re-assigning some seats may be necessary too. C sounds like he/she needs an aide, does he have an IEP? M sounds like a piece of work too. My son's class was like this for two years. Thankfully, we had parent volunteers every day, sometimes more than one. Also, we had a work study student and another university student with some other description there to help a few days a week. Last, the teachers had job share=each was there 1/2 day. They had most of the "behavior" issue students in their class for this reason. I volunteered twice a week and two of those very active children took a liking to me so when I was there, we sat together and I helped them stay on task or get caught up. Some days, there was nothing one could do. Ya gotta wonder what is going on with those kids. My heart goes out to them AND to you.

good ideas shortbun.

In my sons Johns class the kids that had problems had sheets that mark what good behavior was needed by them. After they got so many they would recieve something from the basket. Some of the things cost money but some did not. (the teacher even had a certificate that the child could have lunch with the principal.)


She also instilled group behavior. Everyone had to behave to get the reward. It would be an extra recess, extra gym time or a movie with popcorn. This was probably the easiest one to accieve because all the kids would remind each other to behave.

Whatever you do remember you are an angel for doing this job. I love volunteering in school but you couldn't pay me enough to do the job full time.
 
I agree with Shortbun. Does C have an IEP? I work in a day school for children with behavior, emotional, and learning disorders. This, unfortunately, sounds like a typical day in my work environment. However, our class rooms are limited to 10 children and there is at least one TA in the class and depending on the child's need maybe more. We have several with 1:1. You are doing everything within your power, controlling the environment, reminding the students of the expectations and resulting consequences for not meeting them, following the program, and being firm. Stick to your guns, and don't back down. And always have someone to vent to, (like the DIS).
 
What a day! Makes me want to have a stiff drink just reading it! I think you did an amazing job dealing with discipline. Consequences were appropriate and immediate. Sounds like C is going to be a serious distraction for the rest of the class, not to mention a PITA for you. My only suggestion is to find out what motivates C and use that to design consequences and rewards.
 
I take it that this is a behavior disorders classroom? (If not, God bless you!). Do you have a consultative school psych/behavior management person in your district? Call them ASAP!!! If not, do you have a university near by with a behavior analysis program? You desperately need the consultative skills of a behavior management professional.....and some extra hands. The kids are feeding off of one another- and there isn't enough of you to go around. C. seems he needs a 1:1 for a little while- particularly since the "eating" could be deemed pica and considered an imminent danger. The others would probably benefit from some immediate time-out procedures (sit and watch, moving away rather than waiting for recess to lose positives), but that takes extra hands to implement it....PM me if you want some ideas on instituting some time out procedures, but get yourself some help! God Bless You!!!!!!!!!
 
OMG!!! I was exhausted just reading it. God Bless you.
 
shortbun said:
Wow! You've got your hands full. Time to get the parent volunteers into the room. Also, are there any work study students from nearby Universities? You need more adults in the room so you can do more teaching. .

Thats not always an option...at our school here parents are not permitted in to classrooms so you can't go in and stay and help there...
My daughter has a child like "C" in her class...he spends more time in the principals office than class and this was just in kindergarten!
 
You poor thing. Bless you!! My dd's school has a system based on 5 "tickets". You could make it a theme based on something your children would like. For example, last year they had teddy bears with 5 lollipops in his hand. When they misbehave they have to pull a "ticket". There are punishments for each one getting progressively worse. What is good about the system is that there are also rewards. If you keep 5 tickets every day for the week you get "Super 25". Each teacher has his/her own rewards for that. Also children are "caught" doing good and given tickets that they put in a pot. At the end of the week there is a drawing for a reward. Students soon learn that the more tickets you get, the better the chances for winning. You choose what you want to reward. I know a teacher here recently asked for help with rewards that didn't include food. I can't find it, but maybe someone here can or you can repost asking for input.

Maybe you could make a private deal with C that if he keeps at least 1 ticket per day he gets a special prize that the other children don't need to know about geared especially towards something that makes a difference to him. After a few weeks move it to 2 to get the treat, etc. It could be something as special as getting to eat lunch with you or a little certificate for a Wendy's frosty. Make it special--character napkins and plates, etc. Sometimes all these children want is attention. Make him teacher's helper for the day if he can keep 2 tickets. Make him feel important. Give him that special wink. My dd loves to come home and talk about how she was the "special" helper. I know it must be so hard when the child is so unlikeable.

Sorry I can't help, but I know I could never be a teacher. In fact I homeschooled my dd until the last 8 weeks of last year. I couldn't take it anymore.....LOL, and she never gets in trouble at school. She is super 25 most weeks, so I can only imagine having children that are in trouble all the time.
 
kejoda said:
She also instilled group behavior. Everyone had to behave to get the reward. It would be an extra recess, extra gym time or a movie with popcorn. This was probably the easiest one to accieve because all the kids would remind each other to behave.

The only problem with this is when the child with the behavor issue's continues to act out. Trust me it happens. DD7's class did this last year, and it drove me nuts! She was punished for 1 or 2 of the SAME students acting out every day just about.

I finally did go in and speak to the teacher, and explain to her my thoughts on the problem, and the fact that 15 out of the 17 kids in her class were constantly losing privledges because of 2 that could not stay in control.

Brandy
 
Another good thing about the system I explained above is that you can post the 5 punishments on the board. In my dd's class there is no arbitrary punishment. You know if you act up and pull a ticket, exactly what the punishment will be. No saying "well maybe I will miss recess or maybe this time I go to the principal". No doubt. It is listed on the board.
 
You've asked for help, so I will try. I hope you consider my comments to helpful rather than critical.

To start, I hear that you have a consequence system, but is there a reward system? I mean, have you "created" something that is very desirable to them? That way, you can "catch them being good." Reinforcing the desired behavior (preferably randomly) leads to more of the desired behavior.

Are you redirecting towards positive behavior, rather than trying to stop negative behavior? Here's an example:

Okay, we start off with M rolling around in the floor during morning duties/handwriting time.

YOU: "M, please (insert desired behavior here)." (said very calmly and matter of factly)


They are supposed to go to the restroom, fill their water bottles, choose their lunch, sharpen their pencils, and do handwriting during this time.

Also, the above sounds like too many tasks at once for second graders.

Seriously, regarding C, I cannot stress anough - DOCUMENT everything that happens. Does your school have a procedure for this? We do. We have, explicitly set forth at the beginning of the year, Level 1, Level 2, and Level 3 consequences. Consistent throughout all of the levels is documentation of the behaviors.

Further, I am shocked that C would return. Where I work, if a student is a serious disruption, that I have documented, there would be serious consequences including but not limited to removal from the class for AT LEAST the day. From what I can see, you've already tried "time out in another classroom" and C should be removed, not passed around from teacher to teacher, whether or not they are busy with the 5th graders in the office.

By the way, take time to eat your lunch every day. :teeth: You have to take care of yourself first, in order to take care of them. If I am not mistaken, in Texas we are afforded 30 minutes for a duty free lunch. Pudding emails can wait. :) As long as you respond within 24 hours, you're doing fine.

I hope that things start looking up for you. :) Isn't it amazing how each group can be different from year to year?

I hope your administration is supportive with your C situation. I know mine would be. Just one reason why I love where I work. :) Thanks for reminding me! :teeth:
 
PS I would get C on a behavior contract ASAP. This is another form of documentation. :)

PPS Someone mentioned using resources. Does your district have behavior specialists who can give you some ideas?

PPPS A professional organization could also give you more info. on handling C, as well.
 
Thanks for the responses. C does not have an IEP, and this is a regular second grade classroom, though coded for the inclusion and g/t students at our grade level.

I do some of the things suggested.........I do nearly always ask for what I want with a "please" and a "thank you".........the times I mentioned when I was firmer were after that had been ignored.

I do reward good behavior randomly, both with praise and with a prize basket. I also reward group behavior by the group earning tokens to trade for prizes..........one child in the group can earn a token, or all can, and all the tokens go into the same can...........every child earns the reward when the set number is reached. The school year is still so new that they haven't been given this reward yet.

Normally, C would not have been in two different classrooms like that. The office had a problem.........some sort of criminal matter with older students, and C couldn't be in there at that time. I also could not have C in the classroom after that last stunt he pulled.........firstly, I felt it was obvious oppositional behavior, specifically directed at me and needed to be dealt with, and also, the other students needed him out both for the assurance that someone was in control, and for some calm time for a change that day.

Now to what I can't do: Can't use parent volunteers, as no one is yet approved for this year..........when they are, I will check into trying to have some. I have signed up for a high school intern, but really wanted to use her to work with the lowest kids........I have some at K level. Can't give movie, recess or gym rewards as all that is highly regulated.

I will be looking into college interns..........I've never heard of any in our school, but I'll check it out. I will be contacting our CARE team about him...........I've already spoken to counselor...........and will ask for our psych consultant to come watch.....it has to be done through the team. M was okay after her meds were brought.........she was supposed to have had them in the AM. I have never had them do all that in the AM before........the other teachers do, so I gave it a try. I may take your advice and go back to the sit-down-and-busy that I used to do. I had them copy jokes from the board for a joke journal last year.........I found if I told them just to write in their journal, they wouldn't do anything. So far this year, I've used the handwriting book instead. Time to flip it!

And yep, I keep a notebook with sections for everybody........but I think C will be getting his own notebook.

Whoever said they are feeding off each other. I think you're right. I'm pretty sure C has some big problems........bigger than his parents want to admit........and I'm sure we'll get further along during the year, but at this age it is difficult if not darn-near-impossible to remove them from a regular classroom. They pretty much have to harm someone else on a regular basis or make the environment impossible to learn in..........when they are in 3rd, it's easier to move them to a classroom for behaviorally disordered. I do think the others take advantage of his behavior to an extent. I am aware I have a ton of unmotivated learners, but in my area this is common. I try to motivate, and I'm pretty creative and hands-on in my approach to teaching them what they need to know. They are often farther behind than in more affluent schools, (just like the two I mentioned.....one at age 8 has never gone to school, and one may not have finished first grade) so it makes it more urgent that they learn it now. In fact, the only times we sat down to work with paper and pencil were the handwriting, language and social studies I described. That is also when I get the most behavior issues. I do feel they need that paper and pencil practice too, though, because as they get older there will be more and more of it.

Thanks for so many who told me what I did right too! I really did want new ideas, but it's nice to hear that I was doing well. Sometimes after a day like that, I just question.........is it me or is it them?

Oh, and as for remaining calm.........I got angry with C at both the cafeteria and the spitwad.........I am the type to get calmer the angrier I am...............God gave me that so I could do this job I guess!

Edited to say too: I actually really like C. I had noticed him last year in the halls. He seems very bright, and has a quick wit. I liked his sense of humor. His parents knew I liked him and were happy when he was on my roll for this year. I am not sure how they feel about it now.
 


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