I love credit cards so much!

[Ava]

Hi all, hopefully someone can give me a quick answer! I just filled out my SPG Biz app (I know, way to wait until the last minute) and I'm on the next screen where they allow you to add employee cards. If I listed my business as a sole proprietorship with 1 employee on my app, will it raise any red flags if I add an employee card for my DW?

 

[Albort]

Hi all, hopefully someone can give me a quick answer! I just filled out my SPG Biz app (I know, way to wait until the last minute) and I'm on the next screen where they allow you to add employee cards. If I listed my business as a sole proprietorship with 1 employee on my app, will it raise any red flags if I add an employee card for my DW?

doubt it... if you feel risky, u can always add DW after approval.

 

[disneymagicgirl]

That is a legit issue with Amex. I know there are experts on here that have ways of making it work, but I do feel like I'm working much harder to get my MSR on the SPG Biz than I did on the CIP. I wouldn't feel obliged to do ANOTHER SPG Biz - you could just move on to the CIP. I'm a little biased because I like the simplicity and flexibility of UR, so I'm kinda a chase girl.

I love UR points too and I only wanted SPG points because everyone else loves them. Ha!

I really, really struggled with going for the spg biz. Like it just kept me up at night stressed over the spend. I had JUST finished the spend on the Amex BGR (got mid-Dec) and dh's spg personal (got early Jan). So, I had 8k to meet in just under 4 mos all on Amex. I really didn't want to take on that amount again on Amex but in the end, the appeal of the spg biz card won out I prefer UR but I am seeing more and more how valuable spg points are also.

The CIP offer is the same as it has always been so if you felt like you could meet the Amex spend and could use the spg points, I'd go for that first.

ETA: Anything you can pay through plastiq? Utilities, kid's activity fees, preschool tuition??

I’ve tried several things thru plastiq and they keep saying not allowed category. I fudged my way around sending the hoa payment. Will see what else I can figure out.

Man, all this MS is *really* throwing off my bar graph in mint of how much I've spent this month. I realize it's not accurate but I am extremely type A and this is distressing.

Does anyone here use YNAB? It makes it super easy to identify where you are at MSR wise. Although I am having a tough time categorizing my >$500 grocery trips (that are made of 20ish in real groceries, a $500 GC, and 5.95 in GC fees). Right now I am just splitting out true groceries and putting the rest in a "Bank fees" budget category. It's doable but kind of a pain.

I FINALLY forced myself over to new YNAB. I tried the free trials before and went back every time. I am still highly confused by the credit card payment section. I don't get it at all. I just *really* needed to be able to pay bills from the comfort of my laptop in bed while I drink my morning coffee vs going into the office to use the desktop. LOL. I essentially use YNAB for tracking and a register for all my accounts. I have yet to say "I budgeted 200 for groceries this week so no purchases until next week". Its more like "dang, we spend alot on groceries ".

I use ynab. I am on the old one still. I tried the new one and hated it. I also use it more for tracking and making sure I zero out my cc accounts at the end of the month. I really love the program!

 

[wendow]

If you want a good understanding of Chase shutdown, you should read about the BustOut Score. To put it simply, a Bustout means when a consumer gets a bunch of cards, then bust out, meaning they would swipe out to the max and then disappears. Banks fear this, so if you have a ton of credit cards, they worry that you would do so. This makes sense, people with LOL/24 going back to chase will trigger this... getting a bunch of credit cards quickly, is also another trigger. Experian released a report on what it thinks of it, where 2-3 cards per 6 month(30% increase), 3-4 cards per 6 month(50% increase) is considered risking, hence */6mos. */3mos and /*12 mos just shows how fast the apps are going and its great into on where the person is at.

Edit: should also note, the */6 */3 */12 should include business cards. If you have multiple single bank business cards, there is a guess that that should be added to total # on credit lines due to inhouse info. ie, if you have a chase ink+, chase Ink cash, adding those into the any above.

A few things i found quite interesting...

What Hurts:
- Having a very high score might actually hurt you.
- Low AoA will hurt you. (remember, your applying for cards yearly so this goes down quite significantly)
- 50% over utilization is a big flag
- MS of course
- High income vs age.
- multiple credit increase requests
- multiple payments from different accounts
- high risk states(Nevada, Florida, Arizona are top 3)
- AU... something about identify theft.

What Helps:
- Having some kind of loan and mortgage actually helps you.
- Having a Credit Union Trade account(unsure what this is exactly)
- Might be a good idea to cancel a card instead of PC and sockdrawing it.
- Lowering your credit limit on other cards might help.

edit: typing mistakes.

This is what ive gathered from it. im sure @SouthFayetteFan may know more. i see him active on the shutdown thread... :]

Thanks! This was really helpful. I didn't realize all the things that could hurt and could help. Now I know why the keep asking everyone on the shutdown thread if they have a mortgage lol. Thought it was a really weird question. I proactively lowered my CL when I changed my CFU to a CF. They were extending me 38k on that card and that was just a ludicrous amount. Hopefully, that helped to do that. I really did in preparation for trying to get more Chase cards but maybe it helps with not being shutdown too?!?

 

[Ava]

doubt it... if you feel risky, u can always add DW after approval.

Thanks, I decided not to add her right now. And I got automatic approval!!

 

[Artygal90]

the advise for loans is to NOT apply for cards from 6 months to a year. my timeframe could be wrong, but i know you shouldnt apply for any credit cards if you plan to be part of the loan. if its your DH applying only, then your credit is free from applying for cards...

ironically, you should get cards after your condo purchase, if you have repairs for your condo, u should have some cards to meet MSR with it... :]

Hmmm, okay. I did write out a timeline that had me starting after we purchase in April or May of 2019. But for a trip in May 2020 (with hotel that would need to be booked in late fall 2019) that seemed like it would be cutting it a bit close to apply for and meet minimum spends for CIP, CSP, CSR, SW Biz, and SW Premier, and then we wouldn't have the companion pass until Jan. 2020 and also couldn't churn points for my husband.

So I was thinking that if I double-dip the Southwest cards in mid-October 2019, then stop any new credit apps, it'll be 6 months between opening those SW cards and then needing to go through underwriting on a loan. My credit and savings accounts are in good shape otherwise and the condos we're looking at are about 2x our annual income. Would you still recommend holding off on signing up for cards at all until after the condo purchase?

And no matter what, I'm *definitely* using some condo renovation funds to meet MSRs for the Sapphire products

 

[elgerber]

Hmmm, okay. I did write out a timeline that had me starting after we purchase in April or May of 2019. But for a trip in May 2020 (with hotel that would need to be booked in late fall 2019) that seemed like it would be cutting it a bit close to apply for and meet minimum spends for CIP, CSP, CSR, SW Biz, and SW Premier, and then we wouldn't have the companion pass until Jan. 2020 and also couldn't churn points for my husband.

So I was thinking that if I double-dip the Southwest cards in mid-October 2019, then stop any new credit apps, it'll be 6 months between opening those SW cards and then needing to go through underwriting on a loan. My credit and savings accounts are in good shape otherwise and the condos we're looking at are about 2x our annual income. Would you still recommend holding off on signing up for cards at all until after the condo purchase?

And no matter what, I'm *definitely* using some condo renovation funds to meet MSRs for the Sapphire products

I process mortgage loans for a living. If you get cards in the fall, and wait several months until the mortgage, you should be just fine. Especially if you carry no balance on them. But once you do apply for the mortgage, do NOT apply for any more cards until you have closed. They pull a credit re-check right before closing, and if you have new cards it can cause issues, at the very least some additional paperwork.

 

[kmc8826]

I'm tempted by all of the chatter about the IHG card. If I understand correctly, the prime benefit of the current card is the free night once a year - correct? Can the free night be used at any IHG property? I'm looking on the IHG site at possible hotels in Seattle (one of our destinations for the fall) and the Klimpton hotels cannot be booked with IHG points. I seem to recall that several people here have this card and view it as a good value, but all I'm seeing is Holiday Inn kinds of hotels for 30,000 points per night. Not that I haven't stayed in plenty of Holiday Inn type hotels, but I'm not sure they would make me want to apply for a new card. (I'm way over 5/24 and slightly concerned about a new card from Chase because of the shut-downs.)

I was on the fence too about the IHG and decided to just go for it once I joined IHG and then did a mock booking. I didn't get rooms available with points when I looked not logged into their system but when I looked after they came up. Comparable rates point wise to getting a room with UR's. So I decided to go for it. I like cards where you have something to show for with an AF. $49 for a free room certificate every year is a good deal. I know a couple people like @calypso726 have talked about the value to them.

Thanks! This was really helpful. I didn't realize all the things that could hurt and could help. Now I know why the keep asking everyone on the shutdown thread if they have a mortgage lol. Thought it was a really weird question. I proactively lowered my CL when I changed my CFU to a CF. They were extending me 38k on that card and that was just a ludicrous amount. Hopefully, that helped to do that. I really did in preparation for trying to get more Chase cards but maybe it helps with not being shutdown too?!?

I have talked to Chase now twice this month. Both times they have emphasized the rent/own/mortgage aspect. Both times wanted to know house payment. It sounds like having a mortgage is a huge factor for them on who is shut down. Logically I think that only makes sense. I have a couple hundred on each of my chase cards right now...I am stable with a house I just like to have a lot of different cards to choose from!

 

[Artygal90]

I process mortgage loans for a living. If you get cards in the fall, and wait several months until the mortgage, you should be just fine. Especially if you carry no balance on them. But once you do apply for the mortgage, do NOT apply for any more cards until you have closed. They pull a credit re-check right before closing, and if you have new cards it can cause issues, at the very least some additional paperwork.

That's a relief! Thanks for your input!

 

[Albort]

I process mortgage loans for a living. If you get cards in the fall, and wait several months until the mortgage, you should be just fine. Especially if you carry no balance on them. But once you do apply for the mortgage, do NOT apply for any more cards until you have closed. They pull a credit re-check right before closing, and if you have new cards it can cause issues, at the very least some additional paperwork.

whats considered several months? 4-5months? curious to know for next time if someone asked. :]

 

[elgerber]

whats considered several months? 4-5months? curious to know for next time if someone asked. :]

Honestly we do loans all the time where people have opened cards so recently they aren't even on their credit report yet. We can still do them, we just have to have them added to the report. As long as you have good credit and current payments on the cards, it's just fine.

 

[Calfan]

I think I've talked myself off the ledge on applying now for the IHG card, even if I can get the 80k sign-up bonus. I've finally managed to remind myself that I value points for air travel way more than I value hotel points, and for the number of nights we actually stay in a hotel per year, coming out of pocket for those is fine in comparison to delaying a bunch of bonus UR points. We just paid OOP for the Kimpton Alexis in Seattle (but did use an offer on my Amex Platinum for $60 off), and it just wasn't that much in the grand scheme of our travel budget. The current IHG card is one I definitely would have applied for down the road after getting the cards I still want that require me to be under 5/24, but I'm reconciled to just seeing what the new card offers look like when I'm ready to apply. And maybe by that time they'll be some DPs on how the free night certs on the new cards work.

 

[CyndiLouWho]

Occasionally we get logo shirts, which are the most useful - no dress codes except jeans/cotton tshirts, so I'm always up for an extra shirt I don't care about getting ruined.

We have to wear professional dress and a lab coat. I was hoping for a new lab coat. The last time we got one was over 5 years ago. Lookin a bit shabby.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Okay, could someone here take a look at my CC sign-up timeline and make sure I'm not making some grave planning error? I've put this together by reading the resources on Reddit and asking a few questions both here and there. Not quite understanding how business cards and what and when I can double-dip and how that affects 5/24, so any feedback would be much appreciated.

Goal: 10 Days at Disney/Universal, flight+hotel+tix mostly on points in May of 2020. Between spring 2019 and end of 2020, take a few short domestic trips (1-4 nights) using SW points, companion pass, and UR transferred to Hyatt.

Overall Strategy: Pay for flights by using points + companion pass on Southwest. Pay for tickets and hotel rooms as much as possible using Chase Ultimate Rewards points. Charge food and souvenir expenses to room to keep earning points

Limiting Factors: Want to purchase a condo in spring 2019; not doing manufactured spend methods; can charge $3k/month MAX on cards; want to avoid annual/transaction fees as much as possible.

1. Right now – get Chase Freedom Unlimited for husband to build his credit, up my credit limit on existing card to help qualify for CIP, get a better job (priority #1! But I've got some good leads so I'm hopeful).
2. June-ish 2018 – get CIP ($95 AF) – 80k
3. Mid-Oct. 2018 – get SW Business or SW Personal Plus ($99/69) – Either 60/50k [can I get BOTH the CIP and the SW Business cards? I do have legitimate businesses even if they're just me doing alterations and babysitting for friends for cash.]
4. Mid-Nov. 2018 – get SW Premier ($99) – 50k [or can I double-dip SW Biz/Premier in Oct.?]
5. PAUSE – Buying a condo in spring, no churning!
6. Early Jan. 2019 – Meet min. Spends on SW cards (not a day earlier!), get Companion Pass!
7. May 2019 – Double-dip CSR ($450) and CSP ($0) – 100k
8. June 2019 – Downgrade CIP to no-fee card
9. July 2019 (90 days after meeting spend for CSR/CSP double-dip) – should have minimum 180k UR points by now
10. Aug. 2019 – get United MPE ($0) – 40k miles OR I can start signing up my husband as Player 2 in this game, and focus our spending to meet his MSRs to churn the CSP/CSR and CIP points.
11. Mid-Oct. 2019 – Downgrade/cancel whichever SW card I like less to save on AF.
12. Nov. 2019 – get Marriott ($0) – 75k points (maybe use these at Swolphin for split stay?) OR Maybe get a Hyatt card here for non-Disney trips?
13. Nov. 2019 - Book hotels w/points
14. Dec. 2019 – May 2020 – Amass points, use them to pay for tickets, go to Disney, rejoice!
15. May/June 2020 - Downgrade whichever Sapphire card I like less to save the annual fee.

How does all that sound? I'm not quite sure how the timeline works out with staying at 5/24. After I get the Chase card bonuses and Southwest Companion Pass I'm flexible on which cards happen next. If I want to stay in mostly Hyatt hotels (looks like there are great options for UR redemption in all the places we want to travel in the next few years), is it a good idea to sign up for a Hyatt card of some kind? Or are United MPE/Marriott cards the better choices?

I'm also assuming the offers, products available, and redemption scheme stay mostly the same over the next 2 years, but of course who knows what will change between now and then.

Other questions:

1. This is SUPER basic but...I can pay off my charges on my credit card immediately with no problem, right? I ask because it makes me nervous to run up a huge balance each month and needing to have all the cash on hand RIGHT THEN to pay it all off in one chunk. Mathematically it may be the same but it psychologically feels different to me, if that makes sense?
   
   
2. Talk to me about this CSR travel credit. Let's say I'm booking the Grand Floridian (it's nice to dream, isn't it) and after points, need to spend $300 to pay the remaining balance. Could I charge the balance it to my CSR and then get the $300 statement credit so my effective out-of-pocket cost for the hotel is zero? (I mean, I paid the annual fee, but that was a sunk cost, so I'd like to get my money's worth).
   
   
3. Are park tickets a good redemption of UR points? Or would it be better to buy them with cash through Undercover Tourist to get to the minimum spend on something, get the 3x points/statement credit from the CSR, and then cash out the UR points to offset the out-of-pocket cost?
   
   
4. What would you do with 400k UR points (theoretically possible with Player 2) - spread them out over a few years worth of travel so you take trips partly on points, partly with cash? OR blow it all on 8 nights at the finest hotels Disney and Universal have to offer?

If you got to the end of this wall of text, bless you. I'll send you some cookies once I move and have a stove that actually works.

Here are my thoughts:

• I'd potentially consider a Chase Freedom (CF) vs. Chase Freedom Unlimited (CFU)...the next quarter bonus category is groceries so you could hit the 5% pretty hard. Of course you could always Product Change (PC) from a CF to a CFU or vice versa if you want the other card.
• You don't define who is getting which cards but it seems it's all you after your husband's first card...and you don't seem to be taking advantage of cross-referral opportunities. For example, I'd consider having your husband refer you to CF or CFU. I'd also consider referring your husband to CIP somewhere in here as that's an easy 105k+ URs.
• Your calculation on the min. # of URs you have is off a bit - you'll have a lot more (at least 216k). You're probably not including the amount earned from min. spends and the potential Authorized User (AU) bonuses on a couple of the cards. If you take advantage of those AU offers you DO NOT want to add the spouse (you can use your middle name or nickname instead).
• If your goal is really to cover a big vacation to Disney I'd consider looking at having both players get CIP, CIC, CSR, CSP and potentially CF and/or CFU. United, Hyatt and Marriott cards are nice but you could get A LOT more URs and even consider adding a dining plan and covering that 100% on points. I do not dispute your idea with Southwest though at all, Southwest Points are #1 in my book so I'm all about that
• I think overall the timing is good you've listed here but again, perhaps consider swapping a few cards for better opportunities (especially where you can refer your husband and earn a kicker on top of the bonus).
• No issue paying off your cards immediately, I do it sometimes when I'm bored or just want to get it handled.
• I'd try to find a way to use your CSR travel credit as soon as you can. No reason to wait for your Disney trip, there's many ways to take advantage of it ahead of time. (Disney could be a last resort though)
• I'd use URs for park tickets in a heartbeat...nothing beats FREE.
• I'd use up points immediately to completely offset costs. That keeps cash in your pocket...later if your situation changes and you can't take a trip or something now you may be looking to cash out or redeem for gift cards at a less than ideal rate. As long as you are disciplined with your personal finance I'd always avoid spending cash today and use points if it's a good redemption value

The cards you're looking at that you could find on DISchurners and support a DISer are as follows: CF, CFU, CIP, CSR, CSP, United, Marriott, Hyatt, SW Plus SW Premier.

It shows that you've done a lot of legwork here and you sound quite educated with your plan. I'm sure some of us will have different advice to offer so it's important you think independently and decide what's best for YOU and YOUR FAMILY. No matter what you do, you're helping your family travel for free or with a deep discount and that's awesome!

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Comment on Chase Shutdowns and Mortgages
So straight from the Experian white-paper on bust-out fraud:

Bust-out fraudsters tend to have fewer nonbankcard financial relationships. For example, they have, on average, 0.5 real property trades (mortgages, home improvement, mobile homes and second mortgages) compared with 1.7 and 0.83 trades observed in good accounts and in the national average, respectively. This finding is in line with the common belief that bust-out fraudsters do not typically own properties. At the same time, however, this figure also implies that we should not expect them to have absolutely no property loans.

So basically - having a mortgage does make you appear safer to a card issuer when you're applying for a bunch of cards. And that is as we'd expect since it's harder for a property owner to just drop off the grid.

 

[havaneselover]

I got an email from Costco saying due to high demand, my cash cards wouldn’t be shipped until next week. I can’t imagine why!

 

[kmc8826]

Comment on Chase Shutdowns and Mortgages
So straight from the Experian white-paper on bust-out fraud:

Bust-out fraudsters tend to have fewer nonbankcard financial relationships. For example, they have, on average, 0.5 real property trades (mortgages, home improvement, mobile homes and second mortgages) compared with 1.7 and 0.83 trades observed in good accounts and in the national average, respectively. This finding is in line with the common belief that bust-out fraudsters do not typically own properties. At the same time, however, this figure also implies that we should not expect them to have absolutely no property loans.

So basically - having a mortgage does make you appear safer to a card issuer when you're applying for a bunch of cards. And that is as we'd expect since it's harder for a property owner to just drop off the grid.

Another aspect of my conversation with Chase today was asking about my job. Not just where work but what do/position. He then wanted to know how long have held it. So yes I think as long as you can show that you are not a "bust out" or as I think of it a flight risk I really don't see a huge risk in being shut down. Most they will probably do is deny you the card.

 

[elgerber]

Comment on Chase Shutdowns and Mortgages
So straight from the Experian white-paper on bust-out fraud:

Bust-out fraudsters tend to have fewer nonbankcard financial relationships. For example, they have, on average, 0.5 real property trades (mortgages, home improvement, mobile homes and second mortgages) compared with 1.7 and 0.83 trades observed in good accounts and in the national average, respectively. This finding is in line with the common belief that bust-out fraudsters do not typically own properties. At the same time, however, this figure also implies that we should not expect them to have absolutely no property loans.

So basically - having a mortgage does make you appear safer to a card issuer when you're applying for a bunch of cards. And that is as we'd expect since it's harder for a property owner to just drop off the grid.

So you think having our mortgage with Chase looks even better to them?

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Another aspect of my conversation with Chase today was asking about my job. Not just where work but what do/position. He then wanted to know how long have held it. So yes I think as long as you can show that you are not a "bust out" or as I think of it a flight risk I really don't see a huge risk in being shut down. Most they will probably do is deny you the card.

Were you shut down?? Or are you referencing a recon call? If Recon, the shutdown thing is a whole different ballgame

Regarding shutdowns, I think these decisions are made based on a score so I do not believe a mortgage makes you 100% safe as there are numerous other factors going into the score. Now if your comment is more related to asking for special consideration to reinstate accounts that makes more sense. To get reinstated you basically have to convince them that their model was wrong and you truly intend to repay all your debts. That you aren't trying to open up a bunch of credit lines and run.

So you think having our mortgage with Chase looks even better to them?

I think who your mortgage is with probably has very little bearing. Having one shows that you own property which inherently makes you less risky on the bust-out score.

 

[kmc8826]

Update on my IHG application and secure message to Chase about the 80k offer: they emailed back and will match it!! They said "we will match the additional 20,000 points after the new spend requirement is met." They continued that after "you have met the required spend, please reply to this email to claim the offer." So $2000 on the card instead of the $1000. (Original offer was 60k after $1000). Unfortunately I am up for the challenge. As my dear husband pointed out yesterday we enable each other and one thing we don't have trouble with is spending money!