I Know Longer Believe

[MyManGoofy!]

The judge read the meaning of reasonable doubt to the jurors. It was not up to the jurors to present the case but to interpret it according to what was shown by the prosecution and their witnesses. Presenting it was up to the prosecution and they failed to do their job. Everything the prosecution presented was stuff I had read over the course of 3 years. Had the prosecution not gone for murder 1 or for aggravated child abuse but rather had gone for involuntary manslaughter, they may have gotten their conviction. They overreached without having the right backup and they lost.

What is really disturbing to me is that there are people saying-not here- they hope Casey or members of her family are killed. How does that make them better than the person they hate?

Did you see the jury verdict form? They had the option of everything from Murder 1 down to 3rd Degree and Manslaughter on the first count and Aggravated Child Abuse down to Child Abuse on the second count. This jury chose to go with letting her walk away.

Verdict Forms

 

[rie'smom]

Did you see the jury verdict form? They had the option of everything from Murder 1 down to 3rd Degree and Manslaughter on the first count and Aggravated Child Abuse down to Child Abuse on the second count. This jury chose to go with letting her walk away.

Verdict Forms

I said involuntary manslaughter. That is not on the form.

 

[wdwmom0f3]

This has bothered me all day long. I have not kept up with anything most of the night because it just makes me mad all over again.

I'm not sure if I have lost faith in the System, but there is always room for improvement. I have however lost faith in that Jury. I feel like they rushed this to get out of there. How they let her go for child neglect when she didn't report her child missing for 31 days and then lied about everything surrounding it is beyond me. She's lucky that I was not on that jury. It may have ended as a hung jury, but I would not have given in on that one.

We may see her again for the death of her parents. I don't think this is going to end here.

 

[MyManGoofy!]

I said involuntary manslaughter. That is not on the form.

These are all the definitions for Manslaughter here in Florida:

Definition of Manslaughter

The crime of Manslaughter can be committed in one of three ways, either by:

1 - Manslaughter by Act: Committing an act that was neither excusable, nor justified that resulted in the death of another person.

2 - Manslaughter by Procurement: Persuading, inducing, or encouraging another person to commit an act that resulted in the death of another person.

3 - Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence: Engaging in “Culpably Negligent” conduct that resulted in the death of another person.

There is not a specific "involuntary manslaughter" charge.

 

[Planogirl]

I find it hard to believe that all of the jurors were in a hurry to get home and even if they were they could have gone the other way too. It's impossible to know what the jurors thought or why they ALL came to this decision.

 

[NMAmy]

Nancy Grace has an axe to grind. As daisax said on another thread:



Nancy Grace has egg on her face over this whole thing and she's looking for someone ... anyone ... to blame. So she's picking on the jurors and digging up all manner of personal things on them to discredit them. I wonder how 12 random DISers would fare under her staff's scrutiny .

Exactly. Nancy Grace is nothing more than an old fashioned ambulance chaser and for some reason, her bullying tactics have won her a big audience.

With all the assumptions made about these jurors, it's no wonder that it's difficult to find people who are willing to give up a month or more of their life to serve on a jury and then be belittled for their decision and be accused of not wanting to deliberate so they can go on vacation. WTH? Good thing DIS'ers have no problem judging other people with little evidence.

The prosecution did not do their job--plain and simple.

 

[angelmav]

I lost faith in our justice system long ago, but this outcome really sickens me.

I disagree with those who say the prosecution didnt do their job, it was the JURY that didnt do their job!

Sorry but this isnt a validation of our system, it is a conviction of it.

 

[joviroxx]

Im not a fan of Nancy Grace, but I'll tell you what.... If my child went missing, I'd pray and hope that NG takes it on!

 

[joviroxx]

The prosecution did not do their job--plain and simple.

So how do we convict obviously guilty people without this CSI effect and smoking gun people are asking for? With smoking guns, we don't need juries!

Those who believe she is guilty but think the prosecution did not do their job, what makes YOU think she's guilty that the prosecution did not argue? Im really curious to know this and I haven't been able to get anyone to answer. What convinced you of her guilt that the pro's didn't do in court?

 

[Carly_Roach]

Nancy Grace has an axe to grind. As daisax said on another thread:

Nancy Grace has egg on her face over this whole thing and she's looking for someone ... anyone ... to blame. So she's picking on the jurors and digging up all manner of personal things on them to discredit them. I wonder how 12 random DISers would fare under her staff's scrutiny .

Exactly. I never watch Nancy Grace but I found out which channel she was on and tuned in last night for about an hour. Talk about a sore loser. From all the screaming and crying and "hug your children" nonsense to shooting down anyone with an opposing opinion and even getting up in arms because the defense team was celebrating? Yeah, like the prosecution and maybe even NG herself wouldn't be drinking champagne and celebrating of CA had been found guilty.

All I could see was a woman who spent three years of her life trying to "get" Casey Anthony and she lost her battle because she played it in the court of public opinion rather than in the courtroom where it actually mattered. And now she's mad and is whipping up anyone else who is easily swayed by playing on their emotions.

Exactly. Nancy Grace is nothing more than an old fashioned ambulance chaser and for some reason, her bullying tactics have won her a big audience.

With all the assumptions made about these jurors, it's no wonder that it's difficult to find people who are willing to give up a month or more of their life to serve on a jury and then be belittled for their decision and be accused of not wanting to deliberate so they can go on vacation. WTH? Good thing DIS'ers have no problem judging other people with little evidence.

The prosecution did not do their job--plain and simple.

Exactly. The prosecution may have believed (falsely) that since "everyone" believed CA was guilty that it was going to be a slam-dunk so they went in already weakened. What they didn't take into account were people like me and many others who weren't following this case from day one, didn't know what was going on and who could sit and make a decision based on the facts presented without prejudice coming from the media and the crowd.

People are believing the yellow journalism being broadcasted by NG and others who only want ratings so they can sell their advertising. This trial was never, and would never be, about 'justice for Caylee'. This trial was about whether or not it could be proven that the one in the chair killed Caylee. It was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that CA killed Caylee, hence a not-guilty verdict.

To everyone wringing their hands or wishing death or worse on CA or the jury because they didn't get what they wanted, and standing around saying, "We should DO something! What can we DO?", there's nothing you CAN do about this case. There never was no matter how many message boards or FB votes you took part in. You weren't on the jury, you never had a say in what was going to happen, and it's now over. Turn off the damn box and get your freakin' lives back.

If you want to be productive, what you CAN do is participate in the legal process when it calls you to do so. Stop trying to find ways to get out of sitting on a jury, even if it's traffic court. Volunteer in your community to help others: the homeless, the elderly, a woman's shelter. Anything productive that you do because you honestly want to make a difference rather than something destructive you want to do because you didn't "win".

 

[Carly_Roach]

So how do we convict obviously guilty people without this CSI effect and smoking gun people are asking for? With smoking guns, we don't need juries!

Those who believe she is guilty but think the prosecution did not do their job, what makes YOU think she's guilty that the prosecution did not argue? Im really curious to know this and I haven't been able to get anyone to answer. What convinced you of her guilt that the pro's didn't do in court?

Here's where the problem lies:

What I think or whatever assumptions I may make have zero impact on the situation. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nothing. It's in this perception that just by talking about it I can change the outcome of this particular case that I would find the same angst, anger, and heartbreak that many who've invested their time and energy in this case are experiencing at this very moment. To which I have to say to them:

I don't feel sorry for your angst, anger and heartbreak - you brought it all on yourself by getting involved in something that first you had no business getting involved in and second, you had no chance ever changing what 12 jurors were going to see and how they were going to find.

This is Monday Morning Quarterbacking at it's finest. I could come up with all sorts of great evidence and/or reasons for what you ask. But all I will have accomplished is wasting my precious time fighting. Nothing I say will change the outcome of this trial! NOTHING!

Those jurors who chose NOT to speak to the media, who chose to go home and hug their families, did the absolute right thing. Nothing could be accomplished by explaining themselves except for a public flogging by people who disagreed with their opinion. They were going to be ripped up one side and down the other by NG and her ilk no matter what they did, so they chose to go home and experience the love and joy of their families rather than the judgment and hate of those who disagreed with their opinions.

Call them stupid all you want; their actions show them to be pretty smart as far as I'm concerned.

 

[luvsJack]

The thing that bothers me most is that they never asked for clarification of anything. At some point, don't you think if you had been sitting on that jury, you would at least have asked the judge for some clarification of the charges? I mean, 30 days without reporting the child was missing? DS was missing once for maybe an hour total and we had alreay called the sherriff's office--how do you not call for 30 days without guilt of something?

Also, you all keep saying that the prosecution didn't have the proof. Not every case has DNA or fingerprints or anything that "proves" anything. Cases have gone to court and gotten a conviction for years and years without physicial proof of guilt. The prosecution has to try the case with the information he is given. There just wasn't any physical proof in this case. It wasn't a case of not doing his job, he did what he could with what he had.

I can't imagine 12 heartless people wanting to go home so bad they did this, but I know I could not have, in good consience, sat on that jury and said "not guilty". I would have had to ask for clarification of each charge to see if there was something that could fall within the definitions. I just wonder what made them come to this determination.

There are special places in hell for child killers and she will burn one day. Her justice is still coming.

I agree with the poster who said she doesn't like NG but would hope she takes it on if her own child goes missing. NG has no reason to have egg on her face, she is right. Casey killed that baby. She got away with it, but she did it.

 

[joviroxx]

Here's where the problem lies:

What I think or whatever assumptions I may make have zero impact on the situation. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nothing. It's in this perception that just by talking about it I can change the outcome of this particular case that I would find the same angst, anger, and heartbreak that many who've invested their time and energy in this case are experiencing at this very moment. To which I have to say to them:

Well, people care about our justice system, making sure it works and learn from mistakes to fix things. It has nothing to do with changing the outcome.

I don't feel sorry for your angst, anger and heartbreak - you brought it all on yourself by getting involved in something that first you had no business getting involved in and second, you had no chance ever changing what 12 jurors were going to see and how they were going to find.
I don't think anyone is asking for your sympathy or pity,nor do they want it, get over yourself! Ill remind myself that if I need help from friends or my fellow citizen's in case anything happens to my child, not to have people like you around. I believe we all live together and help each other out. We all affect each other... Sorry, that's how I was raised...

This is Monday Morning Quarterbacking at it's finest. I could come up with all sorts of great evidence and/or reasons for what you ask. But all I will have accomplished is wasting my precious time fighting. Nothing I say will change the outcome of this trial! NOTHING!

Again, its not about changing it but understanding it!! Lord almighty , talk about sounding angry!
Those jurors who chose NOT to speak to the media, who chose to go home and hug their families, did the absolute right thing. Nothing could be accomplished by explaining themselves except for a public flogging by people who disagreed with their opinion.

Wrong, in most cases both sides speak to the jurors to LEARN. Learn what they could have done differently, learn how to be more effective.

They were going to be ripped up one side and down the other by NG and her ilk no matter what they did, so they chose to go home and experience the love and joy of their families rather than the judgment and hate of those who disagreed with their opinions.

Call them stupid all you want; their actions show them to be pretty smart as far as I'm concerned.

Im not ripping any juror personally,although you seem to be doing a good job of going after others...just sayin'

But again, you still didn't answer my question but chose to use it to go on some diatribe attacking those that just are looking to understand.. Your choice, but you sound much angrier and full of hate than anyone else.. take a nap, its not your business (as you say), it makes no impact on your life.. Maybe take your own advice???

 

[sunnyday123]

I couldn't agree with Carly Roach more. The jurors had to make a decision not based on emotion, but on the facts. And there was simply not enough evidence to convict Casey Anthony. I for one am thankful I live in a country that looks at all of the facts, evidence, etc before making a decision. Is the system flawed? Sure. But those flaws outweigh any other country's legal system, but in the next breath asking how they can get out of jury duty. People who don't have the experience or education are saying what "should have been done" and how wrong someone with that education and experience was. If you truly believe the system is that flawed, join a group other than on Facebook, where you can actually make a difference.

 

[lovemygoofy]

I know I'm not specifically being asked for my side but here it is and I'm only going to explain myself once about my thinking. I can honestly admit that I'm biased and my history colors my perspective.

I simply do not believe that Casey acted alone. I wasn't waiting for the DNA affect by any means but I was waiting for something/someone to be able to say other than she was a crappy *** mother that she killed her kid and did it all alone. The prosecution could not prove that she set out to kill this precious child. It was all circumspect other than proving that Casey should never have been a mother.

Here is my biggest problem with the whole case. In my heart of hearts the whole family should have been put on trial as I believe that they are all at fault for this little girl's death. The parents knew Casey did not need to have the little girl with her and that she was out doing all the wrong things and they did not take measures to change it. They just enabled her over and over again by making excuses. They weren't suprised when this happened in the back of their minds no matter how they acted in public.

Lastly, everyone is going on and on about this and taking it personally because this trial has been shoved down our throats for months and the case for 3 years. After all this going on and on it is going to color perspective no matter what or whom is preaching about this. I'm amazed that anyone can get a "fair" trial anymore because of all the sensationalism.

Should the jury taking more time or asking for clarification? Sure but if the outcome was the same people would still be pissed off all the same.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Well, people care about our justice system, making sure it works and learn from mistakes to fix things. It has nothing to do with changing the outcome.

But the system did work in this case. Just because it's not the outcome that the majority of us wanted, the system did not fail here. The prosecution had all the opportunities to present the case and get a conviction.

We are all a bit miffed because we've read countless pages of evidence that, for whatever reason, was completely left out of the Prosecution's case:

Cindy & Casey's fight on the 15th?
Cindy stating she was going to try and get custody of Caylee?

These are just a 2 of the many things, I felt the State left out, but would have been important to a jury expecting to see motive (whether motive needs to be proven, or not, jurors these days look for it).

We don't have to like the outcome, but it's pure folly to believe that the system didn't work in this instance.

As to your statement above about not changing the outcome, that is exactly what your statement suggests. You are saying that a mistake was made somewhere in this case and that something should be done that would have created a different outcome, because this one didn't fit into your interpretation of the case.

Our system isn't perfect, but it doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

I am hoping that people will take to heart what the Sheriff (IIRC) said yesterday about the many other murdered/missing children in Florida and across the USA. Caylee is no more and certainly no less important than these other children, and our focus should now be on locating them and finding those responsible in those cases.

 

[phinz]

to everyone wringing their hands or wishing death or worse on ca or the jury because they didn't get what they wanted, and standing around saying, "we should do something! What can we do?", there's nothing you can do about this case. There never was no matter how many message boards or fb votes you took part in. You weren't on the jury, you never had a say in what was going to happen, and it's now over. Turn off the damn box and get your freakin' lives back.

+1

 

[luvsJack]

I couldn't agree with Carly Roach more. The jurors had to make a decision not based on emotion, but on the facts. And there was simply not enough evidence to convict Casey Anthony. I for one am thankful I live in a country that looks at all of the facts, evidence, etc before making a decision. Is the system flawed? Sure. But those flaws outweigh any other country's legal system, but in the next breath asking how they can get out of jury duty. People who don't have the experience or education are saying what "should have been done" and how wrong someone with that education and experience was. If you truly believe the system is that flawed, join a group other than on Facebook, where you can actually make a difference.

This may have already been said, but the news just quoted one of the jurors that said they felt it was possible that the child drowned accidently and the death was covered up??? Really? WHY would anyone do that?

I am not saying that they should have tried to figure it out but I am saying why would they not have asked for some clarification for something? Isn't hiding a dead body illegal?

I mean, if I believed that someone covered up an accidental death, I would also have to believe that they CAUSED that death and would that not equal manslaughter?? I just don't see how you could reach one conclusion without the other.

I have sat on juries. You look at the evidence and you make a determination but you are also allowed to use your brain and question things too. There is more than one charge for a reason.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

This may have already been said, but the news just quoted one of the jurors that said they felt it was possible that the child drowned accidently and the death was covered up??? Really? WHY would anyone do that?

I am not saying that they should have tried to figure it out but I am saying why would they not have asked for some clarification for something? Isn't hiding a dead body illegal?

I mean, if I believed that someone covered up an accidental death, I would also have to believe that they CAUSED that death and would that not equal manslaughter?? I just don't see how you could reach one conclusion without the other.

I have sat on juries. You look at the evidence and you make a determination but you are also allowed to use your brain and question things too. There is more than one charge for a reason.

Not sure if Florida has it as a charge, but I was shocked they did not charge her with Abuse of a Corpse in this case. With the evidence from the trunk of the Sunfire I thought an abuse charge would have been a slam dunk. Obviously, Caylee did not move herself to those woods.

Of course the alternate juror who spoke out said that he didn't believe the body was ever in the trunk, so who knows if that charge would even have stuck.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I am hoping that people will take to heart what the Sheriff (IIRC) said yesterday about the many other murdered/missing children in Florida and across the USA. Caylee is no more and certainly no less important than these other children, and our focus should now be on locating them and finding those responsible in those cases.

Here here.