I Know Longer Believe

[Swan4Me]

To everyone wringing their hands or wishing death or worse on CA or the jury because they didn't get what they wanted, and standing around saying, "We should DO something! What can we DO?", there's nothing you CAN do about this case. There never was no matter how many message boards or FB votes you took part in. You weren't on the jury, you never had a say in what was going to happen, and it's now over. Turn off the damn box and get your freakin' lives back.

".

Could you PLEASE post this on that other caylee thread #6 or is it #7- those people have been glued to their tv's 24/7 for a long time and are completely obsessed

 

[Carly_Roach]

Could you PLEASE post this on that other caylee thread #6 or is it #7- those people have been glued to their tv's 24/7 for a long time and are completely obsessed

I tried posting to one of those threads and have decided that I'm not going to break those die-hard addictions. They're in the orgasmic throes of "righteous indignation outrage" endorphins (which is just as addictive as crack or heroin) and they're not coming out. They're getting their high and I make it a policy to stay away from drug addicts of any kind.

However, like reprogramming someone from a cult, we might have a chance with those who come out to sell us things.

 

[rgf207]

I think what a lot of people don't understand that you can't just add charges in the middle of a trial. She was being tried for murder, child abuse, and providing false information to police officers.

You simply can't just add charges in the middle because you don't like the way it's going. You can't add charges because you didn't get the verdict you wanted. THAT would be a failure of the justice system

The system worked. It may not have been the verdict you wanted but it worked.

 

[joviroxx]

But the system did work in this case. Just because it's not the outcome that the majority of us wanted, the system did not fail here. The prosecution had all the opportunities to present the case and get a conviction.

We are all a bit miffed because we've read countless pages of evidence that, for whatever reason, was completely left out of the Prosecution's case:

Cindy & Casey's fight on the 15th?
Cindy stating she was going to try and get custody of Caylee?

These are just a 2 of the many things, I felt the State left out, but would have been important to a jury expecting to see motive (whether motive needs to be proven, or not, jurors these days look for it).

Thank you, finally an answer to what Im asking. Im not saying the system didn't work, Im saying that something went wrong when an obviously guilty person goes scot-free. Whether it was the prosecution, the jury, or whatever. There are way too many people saying they think she was guilty but the prosecution didn't prove their case.. So I ask, IF you think she's guilty, what made YOU think she was guilty that the prosecution didn't show the jury. Thank you for answering.

As to your statement above about not changing the outcome, that is exactly what your statement suggests. You are saying that a mistake was made somewhere in this case and that something should be done that would have created a different outcome, because this one didn't fit into your interpretation of the case.

Our system isn't perfect, but it doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

Im not suggesting we change this outcome at all nor that we change the system. I realize that sometimes we will see guilty people go free in order to innocents from being convicted. Mistakes happen, nothing is perfect and just because I think a mistake was made (somewhere) doesn't mean I want to change the system or this particular outcome.

I am a researcher at heart. I like to know why. Im a huge reader and I like to understand things. Im simply saying that she is guilty, of something ,so what can we learn from this so that guilty people aren't set free. I realize that some don't feel she's guilty, that's fine and I won't argue with that. Im addressing those that DO think she's guilty and trying to see what the prosecution could have done differently. Just like when you make a recipe that doesn't work... Its worked before, why isn't it right this time?[/QUOTE]

I am hoping that people will take to heart what the Sheriff (IIRC) said yesterday about the many other murdered/missing children in Florida and across the USA. Caylee is no more and certainly no less important than these other children, and our focus should now be on locating them and finding those responsible in those cases.

Agreed! But I think there is a lot we can learn from this entire case, and not just the trial portion. Everything is a learning experience. And learned experience makes a difference!


Thanks again for answering my question.

 

[joviroxx]

I think what a lot of people don't understand that you can't just add charges in the middle of a trial. She was being tried for murder, child abuse, and providing false information to police officers.

You simply can't just add charges in the middle because you don't like the way it's going. You can't add charges because you didn't get the verdict you wanted. THAT would be a failure of the justice system

The system worked. It may not have been the verdict you wanted but it worked.

What charges are people asking to be added? The verdict forms had for Count 1, 4 different choice, for Count 2, there were 3 choice, and for Count 3, there were 3.. They ran the gamut from the most serious to lesser charges.

 

[crz4mm2]

Could you PLEASE post this on that other caylee thread #6 or is it #7- those people have been glued to their tv's 24/7 for a long time and are completely obsessed

If you don't want to read that people wonder or ask why then don't read it.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I am a researcher at heart. I like to know why. Im a huge reader and I like to understand things. Im simply saying that she is guilty, of something ,so what can we learn from this so that guilty people aren't set free.

I'm a researcher, too. In fact, that's what I do for a living. And I have yet to see any valid research data come from any internet bulletin board or internet discussion group.

Research relies on fact. Spending tedious hours, days and weeks sifting through ALL data, not just the data I want to look at, is how I reach conclusions. And even then my conclusions change if/when another piece of data is brought to my attention.

This isn't research. This is axe-grinding. If you really want to change the system, then change it by doing your civic duty and vote in elections and/or sit on a jury when called.

 

[rgf207]

What charges are people asking to be added? The verdict forms had for Count 1, 4 different choice, for Count 2, there were 3 choice, and for Count 3, there were 3.. They ran the gamut from the most serious to lesser charges.

Read the posts in this thread. People are calling for a slew of other charges from tampering with a corpse, etc

 

[sunnyday123]

This may have already been said, but the news just quoted one of the jurors that said they felt it was possible that the child drowned accidently and the death was covered up??? Really? WHY would anyone do that?

I am not saying that they should have tried to figure it out but I am saying why would they not have asked for some clarification for something? Isn't hiding a dead body illegal?

I mean, if I believed that someone covered up an accidental death, I would also have to believe that they CAUSED that death and would that not equal manslaughter?? I just don't see how you could reach one conclusion without the other.

I have sat on juries. You look at the evidence and you make a determination but you are also allowed to use your brain and question things too. There is more than one charge for a reason.

I agree wholeheartedly. I also feel Casey caused Caylee's death. I have been thinking along the same lines of that juror, it was some sort of accident due to Casey's negligence and she tried to cover it up. Say Caylee did drown, Casey wasn't paying attention. Her first thought would be her parents are going to be furious, and blame her. So she tries to cover it up and make it look like a kidnapping gone wrong, hence the duct tape covering her mouth, and there is some feeble attempt at remorse, so the heart shaped sticker is placed on the tape.

Caylee didn't put herself in the ditch. BUT, no one saw Casey do it, and there isn't any evidence showing she did. There could've been charges for doing the above, but there simply wasn't any evidence pointing to Casey other than someone saying, "Hey, this is what could've happened."

I do think Casey will live in a prison so to speak after she is released. Who is going to hire her? She'll be shuned ( hopefully ) until the day she dies.

 

[dngnb8]

WEll just make it a point to not hang around with druggies and rapists and murderers and anyone with run ins with the law. YOu can't be put on trial for hanging out with someone that another person doesn't like. Being judged negatively isn't the same thing as being prosecuted for a major crime now is it?

Unless youre convicted of a major crime simply because of who you choose to "hang" with.

 

[joviroxx]

I'm a researcher, too. In fact, that's what I do for a living. And I have yet to see any valid research data come from any internet bulletin board or internet discussion group.

Research relies on fact. Spending tedious hours, days and weeks sifting through ALL data, not just the data I want to look at, is how I reach conclusions. And even then my conclusions change if/when another piece of data is brought to my attention.

This isn't research. This is axe-grinding. If you really want to change the system, then change it by doing your civic duty and vote in elections and/or sit on a jury when called.

FYI, Ive followed this case from the beginning. Before the trial, I had read every deposition, seen every piece of evidence, watched 85% of the pretrial hearings, watched video and listened to interviews. I pretty much knew every piece of evidence that was introduced as well as those that weren't. I have my opinions on what might have changed a juror opinion or two which wasn't introduced either by choice or by objection.

For a long time I thought it was an accident and Casey freaked out and hid it. Through the years, and perusing everything and throughout the trial, I changed my mind to murder. I didn't need Vinnie Politano, Jayne Velez Mendez or any other pundit to help form my opinion.

I know from speaking to people that most haven't done this research and didn't watch every minute of the trial. Opinions on both sides have been made this way.

Im not a media junkie. I don't make my opinions based on Nancy Grace, Fox, CNN or any other media outlet. Im the type that believes half of what I see and nothing of what I hear before researching on my own. I take most things with a grain of salt.

I think we have a huge disconnect today for many reasons between what is reasonable doubt and what is possible doubt. So I ask my question with complete curiosity. If you think she was guilty but don't think the prosecution did their job, what do you think they could have done differently? Its not a rebuke, its not a lecture, its not a wanting to change the outcome. I accept its the system we have. BUT, no system is perfect, mistakes happen.

So please don't accuse people of axe-grinding without YOU not knowing the facts or doing the research. Im not attacking people who don't agree with me or have a different view, not sure why you want to shut people up when you have the choice to just not read it.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree wholeheartedly. I also feel Casey caused Caylee's death. I have been thinking along the same lines of that juror, it was some sort of accident due to Casey's negligence and she tried to cover it up. Say Caylee did drown, Casey wasn't paying attention. Her first thought would be her parents are going to be furious, and blame her. So she tries to cover it up and make it look like a kidnapping gone wrong, hence the duct tape covering her mouth, and there is some feeble attempt at remorse, so the heart shaped sticker is placed on the tape.

Caylee didn't put herself in the ditch. BUT, no one saw Casey do it, and there isn't any evidence showing she did. There could've been charges for doing the above, but there simply wasn't any evidence pointing to Casey other than someone saying, "Hey, this is what could've happened."

I do think Casey will live in a prison so to speak after she is released. Who is going to hire her? She'll be shuned ( hopefully ) until the day she dies.

I thought that it was possibly an accident also. Maybe that she used cloraform (sp?) to keep the baby asleep while she partied and she accidently killed her in the process. There again, it seems that would have been manslaughter.

So many cases have been tried and convicted on this small amount of evidence that I just don't think I could have been on that jury, reached this conclusion and lived with myself.

The lying for 30 days of the child's whereabouts and the evidence of a body in the trunk should have been enough for something. NO ONE waits 30 days to report their 2 year old as missing. NO ONE unless they have something to hide. She had something to hide.

 

[dngnb8]

I think we should just let the media provide the evidence. After all, the media has all the information in a case, they dont have an ax to grind. They always provide all the info, not just the sensational information to sell papers or make you watch the news. They have the statements, DNA analysis, etc

They did such a good job convicting the Duke Blue Devil LaCrosse team of rape, we should just continue with that process

I know, lets just get a gang of people and just start roaming around and hold our own courts. Yeah,that's the ticket! Who wants to be the judge of the Kangaroo Courts. After all, Legal Rights are only for the innocent, and this innocent until proven guilty crap only gets in the way.

 

[NikitaZee]

I tried posting to one of those threads and have decided that I'm not going to break those die-hard addictions. They're in the orgasmic throes of "righteous indignation outrage" endorphins (which is just as addictive as crack or heroin) and they're not coming out. They're getting their high and I make it a policy to stay away from drug addicts of any kind.

However, like reprogramming someone from a cult, we might have a chance with those who come out to sell us things.

I've read some of the newest #6 thread. A couple of people were saying they agree with the verdict (granted one guy was a little sarcastic) and a couple of die-hards asked those speaking in favor of the verdict to just go away so they could work through their heartache together.

 

[NikitaZee]

I agree wholeheartedly. I also feel Casey caused Caylee's death. I have been thinking along the same lines of that juror, it was some sort of accident due to Casey's negligence and she tried to cover it up. Say Caylee did drown, Casey wasn't paying attention. Her first thought would be her parents are going to be furious, and blame her. So she tries to cover it up and make it look like a kidnapping gone wrong, hence the duct tape covering her mouth, and there is some feeble attempt at remorse, so the heart shaped sticker is placed on the tape.

Caylee didn't put herself in the ditch. BUT, no one saw Casey do it, and there isn't any evidence showing she did. There could've been charges for doing the above, but there simply wasn't any evidence pointing to Casey other than someone saying, "Hey, this is what could've happened."

I do think Casey will live in a prison so to speak after she is released. Who is going to hire her? She'll be shuned ( hopefully ) until the day she dies.

Yes. Everything offered was 'this could have happened'. But the prosecutors proposed it as 'this did happen'. There was no proof of what they claimed took place - just like there was no proof of a drowning or anything else. We'll most likely never know. But to convict of murder you need to prove murder. If you haven't, you haven't - you don't just hand out a manslaughter conviction so she'll 'at least be convicted of something'. I for one think the system worked, and am glad that the burden of proof being on the prosecution is how our system is based. Even though I feel she caused her little girl's death, in some way - I need more proof of which way.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I've read some of the newest #6 thread. A couple of people were saying they agree with the verdict (granted one guy was a little sarcastic) and a couple of die-hards asked those speaking in favor of the verdict to just go away so they could work through their heartache together.

I've heard of this "sadness" spoken about on the news channels I've watched and it's just amazing to me.

These are people who never knew any of the Anthonys from Moses (nor cared) until they saw them on the news. Any "heartache" they are experiencing is heartache they've groomed, invited in and are weeping openly about with others because of their own desire to be a part of a group that never included them in the first place.

They are, for want of a better word, the Peanut Gallery. And it's difficult to take them seriously no matter how much I want to.

To put it from my perspective:

How many rape, assault and child abuse trials are going on right at this moment - some with the most heinous, digusting and revolting acts that have ever been perpetrated on any child - how many of those cases being tried right at this moment have anyone other than the principal players feeling heartache for those victims? (Most of whom are still living and still suffering?)

But people aren't feeling "heartache" for those living victims because they don't know them; their faces haven't been broadcasted across the news and glamorized for the sake of ratings. They are no less human than Caylee was, yet they are largely ignored and a nation weeps on cue for a child who's been dead for three years instead of weeping and doing something about the countless children who are alive and suffering at this very moment who lack the glamour and fame that came with NG and her ilk.

 

[dngnb8]

just because it wasn't the verdict you wanted, doesn't mean it's broken.

qft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[happygirl]

qft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just because it the verdict you wanted doesn't make it perfect

 

[luvsJack]

I think we should just let the media provide the evidence. After all, the media has all the information in a case, they dont have an ax to grind. They always provide all the info, not just the sensational information to sell papers or make you watch the news. They have the statements, DNA analysis, etc

They did such a good job convicting the Duke Blue Devil LaCrosse team of rape, we should just continue with that process

I know, lets just get a gang of people and just start roaming around and hold our own courts. Yeah,that's the ticket! Who wants to be the judge of the Kangaroo Courts. After all, Legal Rights are only for the innocent, and this innocent until proven guilty crap only gets in the way.

Do you believe that a woman who did not report her baby missing for 30 days is innocent? Do you have children? Or a pet? Would you be able to allow your child to be missing for even a day?

I never had the horrific ordeal of a child missing for days or months but ds did disappear for an hour or more when he was about that age. Let me tell you the absolute HORROR that goes through your mind and heart and soul in the moment you realize they are missing. Within that hour we called the sherriff's office. my father home from work and dh (before he was my dh) from his job to help us find my baby. There is no way on this earth that someone who didn't have anything to do with her child's death let her be gone for 30 days without reporting it. Absolutly no way.

I believe strongly in "innocent until proven guilty". I also believe in "if someone shows you who they are, believe them". She showed us who she was long ago. That doesn't help much in court, I know but it is a fact.

Whether it was the police, the prosecution, the jurors or the judge--someone failed this baby and a guility person has walked free. The system failed at some level. That doesn't mean we throw out the system. It means we look at what failed and we try to fix it.

 

[lillygator]

As I stated above, I was actively involved in looking through and documenting the cellphone "pings" way back in 2008, trying to help find areas to search for Caylee. I've read every piece of discovery that's come down the trail, and watched every second of every hearing that was streamed.

That being said, I agree with you that the State's case left me wondering how, with all of this evidence, did their presentation seem so weak? I felt like they left so many things out that I had read and seen over the past 3 years.

I too have kept up with this since the beginning. I left the other DIS thread because a lot of posts just simply weren't the facts, etc. I am really not shocked that the jury came back with not guilty. There was no cause of death determined, and while I know a child did not put tape around herself..how can you truly say, Casey is guilty of murder when you can't even determine cause of death? and while I agree about not reporting your child missing....no one testified that she was a bad mother or that Caylee was abused did they?

What amazes me the most is her ability to keep her mouth shut and to continue the lies....I really think someone else knows more and that someone else did help her.