I just joined the car #4 crowd

[EUROPA]

You may not be typing it but that is exactly what your saying.

If TL is even updated and if those people even care to try the other parks...and if it does not turn them off so bad they chose to not go at all

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"If TL is even updated and if those people even care to try the other parks...and if it does not turn them off so bad they chose to not go at all"***

And IF frogs had wings they wouldn't smack their @$$ everytime they jump.

Well, I'm willing to believe TL is going to be improved with this rehab.

And our first three trips to WDW were always in Nov,Dec and I would have love to have been able to try TL during one of them.

And if BB or TL is that important to them that they choose to stay away that is their choice. I personally don't see the importance of a water park, but I'm also not from Alaska.

 

[HB2K]

Yes,they close every Sept" so apparently people know that at certain times of the year certain rides go down.

So using that statement AWM had every right to expect BB to be open during his trip right?

Your "whim" comment implies that now Disney is suddenly doing something it hasn't done in the past.

It is this year. BB Has gone down at a certain time every year, and ArticMan planned accordingly. Then this year Disney changed it on him.

Why did it close ?

If you're trying to bait me...this might do it

It broke down because the freakin company stopped investing properly in the ride maintenance and one day during an inspection they found the thing ready to fall apart.

ignoring the fact that TL will be a better park and that guest who always go in Nov,Dec will get to try TL and those that always go Jan,Feb will now get to try BB.

So if I want a hamburger and McDonald's is closed I should be thankful that Taco Bell is there?

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"So using that statement AWM had every right to expect BB to be open during his trip right?"***

I'm sure he did assume this. But we all know what happens when we assume anything in life. But I'll ask you: Does five months advance notice fit the criteria for "whime" ?

***"Your "whim" comment implies that now Disney is suddenly doing something it hasn't done in the past."***

Not the point I was trying to make. EUROPA seemed to be implying that in the past Disney posted well in advance what parks and attractions would be closed, giving everyone more then enough time to plan. Is this a fact ? I don't recall notification like this,but the first trip I planned was in '95 and as I stated earlier, I've never tried to find out what is closed.

***"If you're trying to bait me...this might do it "***

No,wasn't trying to bait you, simply asked a question. But the mechanical breakdown did fit my criteria for "whime".

***"It broke down because the freakin company stopped investing properly in the ride maintenance and one day during an inspection they found the thing ready to fall apart."***

That may or may not be fact.

***"So if I want a hamburger and McDonald's is closed I should be thankful that Taco Bell is there?"***

No, but you may consider Burger King.

NOBODY likes going to WDW and finding their favorite ride/park is closed. Bottom line is that it has to be done sometime. Why were so many rides closed at DL when we were there in Sept ? Because that is a very off-season for DL. The fewest number of people will be inconvienanced. I want to go off-season to avoid crowds. I accept ride closures as a fair trade. Both water parks are rehabed in the winter for obvious reasons. I will be sympathetic to the situation AWM is in, but I'm not going to condem Disney either.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING

Not the point I was trying to make. EUROPA seemed to be implying that in the past Disney posted well in advance what parks and attractions would be closed, giving everyone more then enough time to plan. Is this a fact ? I don't recall notification like this,but the first trip I planned was in '95 and as I stated earlier, I've never tried to find out what is closed.

No for years - 20 or more. Disney did the bulk of its maintenance at night. Sure there was the extended maintenance that took longer or the emergency situations. After the Eisner bubble bust (I think I invented a new term) maintenance budgets have been slashed. Maintenance is now clearly done in front of the customers during the open park hours( which effects the SHOW- see Baron about this) where it is sure to effect the guest. Before the budget guys the parks were painted, fixed flowers repainted, grass cut all at night so the guest would not be effected and for SHOW Now if the maintenance is done at all it's done where it effects guest. See the DL Space Mt issue. TL and BB are not closed down Months at a time because them "must" do maintenance on them. They are closed down for money reasons plain and simple.

 

[crusader]

Europa -

Cutting a maintenance budget would mean the work is done less not done during the day vs night. Unless you are saying that the night shift was paid a differential which the head of parks decided to cut. Is this the case?

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

TL and BB are not closed down months at a time because they "must" do maintenance on them. They are closed down for money reasons plain and simple.

What about all the maintenance items that were done at TL's last shutdown "OnWiththeShow" posted?

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"TL and BB are not closed down Months at a time because them "must" do maintenance on them. They are closed down for money reasons plain and simple."***

OnWithTheShow listed a fairly extensive list of things they do during the TL shutdown. This is not night time maintenance. I will agree that some of the shutdown time is a money saving practice, but I don't really blame them. Unless the entire state of Alaska is coming to WDW in the winter, there is no reason to try and operate two waterparks.

 

[EUROPA]

Maint- Both frequency and time the maintenance is performed has been adjusted compared to the past. Yes it is more expensive to pay Maint people to work at night.

While all of those task at TL may be done during the shut down a complete shut down of the park is not needed to complete them. It is just more convenient and cheaper to do so. Nobody would suggest that Wet-N-Wild is falling apart from spreading out their rehab scheduled and keeping the park open year round. Like I said I don't have a problem with them doing maintenance or rides being shut down. Its just that for a lot of people( unlike most of us ) don't get to go very often and plan their vacations around these attractions/ of in the case of BB the entire park being open. These people have every right to be upset when what they have planned goes to crap. We keep warning you that someday you guys are also going to have something effect you and it might just be coming around corner in the next TV season. (AS AV has alluded too).

 

[crusader]

Yes it is more expensive to pay Maint people to work at night.

Only in the sense that it is more time consuming due to the visibility limitations. If Disney negotiated its' contracts properly where the shifts ran predominantly off peak there may not be a set differential being charged here. I don't know what the answer is in this particular situation which is why I posed the question. Your response is much too general to apply here and does not tell me what is really going on at all.

Now back to the waterparks - If you have to drain water to paint and refurbish basins and causeways you cannot perform this at night and you certainly do not want your guests to see an empty concrete structure with stagnant residue. Therefore, you will schedule a shut down during offpeak operations. Since Florida operates on a year round cycle, you have to pick the times when the weather is coldest and attendance is at it lowest and you have to close the park.

A water park better be sufficiently rehabbed every single year or it will reek and look and feel unsanitary. Have you ever been to a park where the place felt disgusting because of gross neglect and lack of maintainence? Try "Dorney" late summer sometime. That's certainly not the Disney standard we all like to profess now is it ?

 

[EUROPA]

Generally it is more time consuming to perform Maint at night. I do not know the specifics of Disney's contracts with its labor unions. I am in the maintenance industry (the Computer side at least) and in general running maint operations at night are more expensive for several different factors. I'm sorry that I don't have specific Disney numbers for you.


I've been to Wet-n-Wild in Orlando and somehow they have figured out how to keep the slides and pool looking well kept without shutting down for months at a time. Maybe Disney can learn something from them?

 

[ohanafamily]

I will agree that the night time maintenance was much better for the show, and the "Ei$ner Bubble" cut that out in a way that is not so magical. I feel that this is one of the first things that occasionally pushes me into car 2.

I will disagree about the water parks (IE read the earlier posts). Because of the theming (that sets them apart from W&W) the features are all interconnected. In order to do the Serious maintenance, the entire park needs to be drained. This is not the case in MK because the rides are separate. I think that a once a year cleaning and maintenance done when it will inconvenience the least number of people is fair. It is not feasible with MK.

Also, I would equate it more to “the McDonalds that is shaped like a happy meal is closed, you will have to be satisfied with the regular McDonalds that is 3 blocks away”. With all reverence to AWM- I am using this analogy because of the importance of children to most of us; especially the way some of us have been acting toward him- this can be a crushing experience to a 4 year old. Taco Bell is a “Pepsi Place” (kind of like saying go to US).

Again, I hope that we can get beyond this bickering to the real point. AWM feels he has been slighted and needs our support, not flames

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"I've been to Wet-n-Wild in Orlando and somehow they have figured out how to keep the slides and pool looking well kept without shutting down for months at a time. Maybe Disney can learn something from them?" ***

Wet-n-Wild is an un-themed park with stand alone rides. They simply shut them down one at a time similar to what Disney does in their theme parks. Also, WnW earns all its income by being open. It probably can't afford to shutdown for any length of time. A park like BB or TL intermingle their water systems. You can't simply shut off the water to one slide without affecting another.

 

[d-r]

oh, nevermind.

 

[crusader]

and in general running maint operations at night are more expensive for several different factors. I'm sorry that I don't have specific Disney numbers for you.

You guys aren't working outdoors so there is a big difference regarding the elements. I don't need specific Disney numbers - but it would help if we really knew what was going on. We don't.

You raise a good point with Wet 'N Wild. That park is not an enterprise so to speak which has a subsidy due to the ticket pricing strategy. If it closes, it stands to lose a boatload of money. It may very well be paying heavy maintenance fees to operate, but it does not have the other auxilliary features Disney provides incorporated within its' overhead budget.

Great Adventure used to try to seperately charge for the Animal Safari and had to change its' costing structure to now charge all guests for this park irregardless of attendance due to a lack of sufficient revenue flowing independently. That is very similar to Disney's water parks. They are bundled and packaged and operated as part of a conglomerate - not a single entity. And yes - they can afford to close down for a longer timeframe mainly because there is more than one park on property in operation at all times.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Wet-n-Wild is an un-themed park with stand alone rides. They simply shut them down one at a time similar to what Disney does in their theme parks. Also, WnW earns all its income by being open. It probably can't afford to shutdown for any length of time. A park like BB or TL intermingle their water systems. You can't simply shut off the water to one slide without affecting another.

Themeing has zero to do with the problem..


As for the rides water systems being intermingled and not being able to shut down one ride without effecting the other....where are you getting this info from? That seems like a very poor design.

Looking at the map...it does no appear as if any of the water systems are shared at BB.
http://www.*************.com/Blizzard Beach Map.htm

What happens if one slide goes down for the day? Does the whole park close ?

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"Themeing has zero to do with the problem.."***

No,theming is an important part of the equation. Look at WnW. It's a parking lot with individual rides. No connection between them. BB & TL are a package deal. All that fancy stuff that seperates a BB from WnW requires maintaining.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
No,theming is an important part of the equation. Look at WnW. It's a parking lot with individual rides. No connection between them. BB & TL are a package deal. All that fancy stuff that seperates a BB from WnW requires maintaining. [/B]

So it's the upkeep of the "theme" that cuases BB to go down for months at a time and WnW can stay open all year? Ok got it now. It's a good thing for us that the Theme of the parks like MK,EPCOT,AK and MGM do not have this same issue. Now just how is that the "Double Dipper" is connected with the Ski Patrol Tranning Camp in BB? YOu shut down the DD and what exactly happens to the Ski Patrol?

 

[HB2K]

I'm sure he did assume this. But we all know what happens when we assume anything in life. But I'll ask you: Does five months advance notice fit the criteria for "whime" ?

When you encourage and accept people's money a full year ahead, then yes it qualifies as a whim.

And as Ohana said this is getting away from the point.

AWM has a right to be upset.

 

[Coach Rick]

This whole debate is just getting silly. Bottom line is if they were to close one slide somebody would come out of the park complaining about that one being down. If one bathroom was closed somebody would complain, so since they have a history of closing the entire water park it should come as no surprise when one comes off line. You don't have to like it, or accept it. You can write letters, and complain to the proper people, unless hearing yourself talk is what you are after. AWM is the one that is suffereing here, but yet others seem to have taken his lament, and made it there cause. Now before some of you jump on me and tell me that these boards may not be for me, well maybe there not for you. Intelligent conversation is what it's all about, not name calling, or a mean spirit. I am a big boy, and can handle anything that comes my way, but in my short time on this dis board I have noticed that there are some here who's sole pupose in life to to knock Disney. That is unfortunate, as is the courage a keyboard gives some. We should be able to agree to respectfully disagree. There is no doubt that I love everything Disney, and if at times I have to be somewhat inconvenience, then so be it. If that makes me a bad person, then so be that. One thing I know is I will live a much happier existace the ramaining time I have on this earth, and I will live it to the fullest. Take a moment, and consider what you are all saying. Right or wrong, is this what you would be arguing over if it were your last day on earth? With that, nuff said, Rant off...Thanks for your time...