I just don't get this...

[septbride2002]

I guess I didn't understand your point in the first place. What does that Pope's stand on the holocaust have to do the the subject of this thread (Birth control). So I thought you were trying to start something with me, for that I'm sorry. But I did answered your question.

When I said: "I really don't want to debate this. I only want to answer sincere questions and correct any errors I think I see written." it was in general to everyone posting to this thread, not just you.

I really only came here to answer questions and possibly correct things posted that I think are not correct teachings of the Church. That's all. I don't want to debate though. I don't want to argue with anyone and if I said something to offend you, or Disduck, then I'm sorry. I just don't understand why people (in general, not you) come here and ask questions like these and then don't like the answers and continue to argue or try and pick apart the answer given. Why not do the research yourself (in general, not you)? I don't get it. I just get so tired of all these threads that almost always end up bashing a Church (and a Pope) that I love dearly.

There's yet another new Catholic thread started that I'll certainly try to avoid. It's such a waste of my time.

OT: They had to stop the line to see the Pope as it's 24 hours long. So amazing to me. Wish I could be there. I'll be up at 4:00a Friday though.

I think people ask questions about the Catholic church for many different reasons. One being that if you dont' know anything about the church it is hard to begin the research to finding the answers you seek. And also because once you get the answer - you may fail to understand it. I've been raised in the catholic church and there are many questions about it that I cannot answer. So I think people say, "Well why this? or Why that?" because they truly don't understand. Christianity is about teaching and therefore we should all be open to teaching the way our particular brand of Christianity works.

I really wasn't trying to start a debate about the different Pope's - I just wanted to see if that was the Pope I was thinking of.

~Amanda

 

[6_Time_Momma]

How does NFP fit in all of this? NFP can be used to find out when a woman is most fertile to increase the probability of pregnancy and also to avoid pregnancy. It's not a man-made way to avoid pregnancy, but it's still avoiding the possibility of life.

To say that the Church is against ABC simply because of the "open to life" issue is actually too simplistic.

There are other reasons, including the fact that pills and IUDs work as abortificants and the fact that condom, spermicides, etc. place an unnatural barrier between man and wife.

As to the open to life issue, the Church states that every act needs to be open to life.....in other words, no barriers or chemicals in place to prevent conception from occurring.

I can talk more, if anyone truly cares at this point , but DH and I are going to look at a car. I'll check back in if the thread is still here.

 

[ladyjayhawk]

I guess I didn't understand your point in the first place. What does that Pope's stand on the holocaust have to do the the subject of this thread (Birth control). So I thought you were trying to start something with me, for that I'm sorry. But I did answered your question.

Septbride2002 - When I read your question about the previous Pope, I also thought it was a snide dig. Since it can be difficult to understand someone's intent on a message board based on a few words, beattyfamily's reaction is understandable. Also, you have been a bit testy lately on the boards. I hope all is well with you.

 

[AllyandJack]

I've been reading this thread with interest all day. I was raised Catholic...Catholic schools...the whole thing. I've been holding back what I want to say because it's going to come off as mean and rude and bitter. But, here goes:

If God wanted us to be "open to life", he wouldn't have made me and millions of other people infertile. So, I can't buy that argument. I think it's just one more way for the church to stick its big nose in where it doesn't belong. I'm the one that is open for life and God is the one placing the barrier.

So....I got married at WDW and my marriage isn't recognized by the Catholic church I grew up in. Big deal. I'm having all sorts of relations with my DH knowing that it's not going to produce life. Big deal. Send me to h-e-double hockey sticks (to quote Rose from the Golden Girls). I don't care.

Let the priests marry and have families. Stop telling people that it's wrong to use birth control when some of us are having birth control forced onto us by no choice of our own. Leave gays and lesbians alone....two women together probably have the same chance of creating life as me and DH, so get over it.

So, that's my personal, bitter opinion.

I'm not a liberal...I'm not a democrat...I voted for Bush...but, I happen to completely disagree with the argument that God wants us to be open for life, when he closes that door for so many people in the world.

 

[septbride2002]

Septbride2002 - When I read your question about the previous Pope, I also thought it was a snide dig. Since it can be difficult to understand someone's intent on a message board based on a few words, beattyfamily's reaction is understandable. Also, you have been a bit testy lately on the boards. I hope all is well with you.

Ah, thanks. Everything is going very well for me at the moment. I haven't noticed me being testier then usual, especially since I've been off the boards the last 2 days, but :confused who knows. If I wanted it to be snide about something I would have added the :rolleyes icon behind my statement. I hope all is well with you as well! Have a nice day!

~Amanda

 

[snoopy]

Hmmmm, I just read through this whole thread.

I decided two months ago that rather than struggle with every issue that I disagree with in the Catholic religion, that I'm o.k. with being a cafeteria Catholic. Before that, I was thinking that I couldn't be a true Catholic, because I do use birth control, and I am pro choice and I certainly believe its irresponsible to speak against BC where AIDS is concerned (and its the one issue that I pray the Church will change its stance on....I can live without women Priests -- admittedly, I don't have a desire to BE a priest -- but either way this issue doesn't have the same urgency as the church's stance on BC where AIDS is concerned).

Anyway, in thinking of these issues where the Church and I differ, I started to think what I do like about the Church. I like having faith without "fire and brimstone" (one church I tried on for size earlier this year did use fire and brimstone....definately NOT for me!). I like its views on sin and forgiveness. I like the fact that I can go to Mass in Budapest or South America or wherever and not speak the language but still understand what's going on. I like the rituals, they give me discipline. I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. The Catholic Church is not a perfect institution. But I've looked at lots of other institutions and none of those have been perfect either. I think one has to look at religion, if they are so inclined, and decide which one fits them MOSTLY. Very few will find one that fits them ALWAYS. I was so worried about being a hypocrite that I was missing out on a relationship with God, which I still struggle with but not as much as I did when I was consumed with the "rules".

 

[Lisa F]

But I've looked at lots of other institutions and none of those have been perfect either. I think one has to look at religion, if they are so inclined, and decide which one fits them MOSTLY. Very few will find one that fits them ALWAYS. I was so worried about being a hypocrite that I was missing out on a relationship with God, which I still struggle with but not as much as I did when I was consumed with the "rules".

That is certainly true. I personally don't think it's one bit hypocritical to "pick and choose" what parts of a certain religion speaks to you. As someone else pointed out, the world is rarely black and white. I don't agree with everything the US gov't does but I still consider myself an American and I don't believe that it's hypocritical of me to dislike the current President as much as I do. On the other hand I do think it would be hypocritical of me to believe that I have the right to dislike the President but if someone else dislikes a politician that I happen to like, they should "leave the country." I've always hated the "America: Love it or Leave it" attitude by whoever happens to be the majority opinion at the time.

I think religion is much the same. Its not hypocritical to identify yourself with a group of people. Religion has a STRONG cultural component that can transcend spirituality at times... I know many many "cultural" Jews who are not the least bit religious and I also know how strong the family/community culture is in most of the catholics I know. Its not hypocritical to want to be part of a community in which you feel comfortable even if you don't agree with everything that the patriarch says. What is hypocritical IMO is when you start deciding that the rules YOU have decided to break are OK to break but anyone else is going to hell for breaking other rules... but there seem to be many people in all religions who literally believe they are "holier than thou" and are eager to judge those they feel are less righteous than they are. This is the kind of hypocrisy I can't tolerate.

 

[beattyfamily]

BeattyF.~ I rarely post to religious threads, I don't even open them. I noted your tone when you replied to my question. I didn't ask you or anyone else to do any "research" to provide me with an explanation to my VERY sincere question. Not sure why you would think it wasn't sincere... I thought that since this was an exchange of opinions/questions that someone would address my question and provide an answer. Typically, that's the normal flow of conversation.

Trust me, I like to be informed and I'm very capable of doing my own research. I guess I was looking for a meaningful answer to my question and didn't get one. In the future, please don't burden yourself with having to do the work for me.

Enjoy your day!

Like I said in my last post, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I was just a little frustrated by all the Catholic bashing threads lately and how some seem to ask questions only to stir the pot and not really to be informed.

 

[KathyTX]

Because of a multitude of snide remarks and personal attacks, this discussion is over.