I just don't get this...

[julia & nicks mom]

I have heard a lot of people denounce the pope for being against condoms and contraception...

one of the major values we are taught in the Catholic church is that sex is for two married people for the purpose of procreation -

so if you choose to have sex outside of these parameters - you are clearly not agreeing with the church teachings and choosing to go against them -

it seems to me that someone who chooses to ignore this would not then choose to follow his advice on contraception and refuse to use a condom -

could someone please explain to me what I am missing?

 

[poohandwendy]

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that people shouldn't be mad at the Pope for the rules because they obviously don't care about some of them anyways? I guess I need you to clarify...

 

[poohandwendy]

But to answer what I *think* you are saying...I think some people don't like the anti contraception part because they know that condoms can save lives. Sort of a 'it's one thing to break a rule, but you shouldn't die for it'...I dunno, tha is the message I get from some of the Catholics I know.

 

[julia & nicks mom]

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that people shouldn't be mad at the Pope for the rules because they obviously don't care about some of them anyways? I guess I need you to clarify...

I guess I think that if you are following the church's teaching you aren't having sex outside of marriage for reasons other than procreation - therefore you don't need contraceptives

would someone have sex outside of these parameters but not use contraceptives because the pope denounced them -

if you truly follow the church's teachings - you will do neither

I really don't know anyone who needed a condom for life saving purposes (or really for any reason) that said - no condom - the pope denounced it

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL, I hear what you are saying. I am not Catholic, but do they teach that God is all knowing and omnipotent? If so, then why would contraceptives be a no-no? I was always taught that we humans couldn't stop what God intended.

Also, just wondering what the catholic stance is on vasectomy and tubal ligation? What about hysterectomy?

 

[julia & nicks mom]

LOL, I hear what you are saying. I am not Catholic, but do they teach that God is all knowing and omnipotent? If so, then why would contraceptives be a no-no? I was always taught that we humans couldn't stop what God intended.

Also, just wondering what the catholic stance is on vasectomy and tubal ligation? What about hysterectomy?

yes - that is what we are taught - my mom always tells me - babies will come when babies will come - yet she is advocating my DH and I stop

Contraceptives are forbidden b/c we are supposed to open to the possibility of life

any form of contraception or sterilization (unless it's the unintended result of a lifesaving surgery) is a grave sin. The Church is absolutely clear about that.

well - everyone I know at church will be in hell with me!

 

[chadfromdallas]

I really don't know anyone who needed a condom for life saving purposes (or really for any reason) that said - no condom - the pope denounced it

Sex for breeding purposes only

Yesh, your religion is no fun

 

[julia & nicks mom]

Sex for breeding purposes only

Yesh, your religion is no fun

truth is - we drink too much and then we can claim drunken stupors - which I believe then forgives the sin

well - thats my story and I'm stickin to it!

 

[MScott1851]

Sex for breeding purposes only

Yesh, your religion is no fun

NOT THE "B" WORD!!!

You have no idea how big that freaking can of worms you just opened is!!

 

[chadfromdallas]

NOT THE "B" WORD!!!

You have no idea how big that freaking can of worms you just opened is!!

Dun Dun DUN!!!

 

[Lisa F]

I admit to not having much time to follow such things lately but I'm guessing it's not so much that the Pope was against contraception in general. The biggest criticisms that I've seen has been the RC Church's official stance on the use of condoms in Africa to help stop stop the spread of Aids (which has reached epidemic proportions). I remember reading a few articles a while back where the official church word was that not only do condoms not prevent the spread of aids (which I guess is semantically true since nothing besides abstinance is ever 100%) but that the virus can actually transmit itself through condoms. IMO that kind of misinformation is deplorable and while it wasn't directly attributed to the pope, as far as I know it was "official church policy."

I definitely agree with what you are saying, if you want to be a "good" catholic you're not messing around in the first place so why do you care if the church says whether you can use contraception or not? If you're messing around in the first place you obviously choose not to follow the church's teachings on that front so what is the big deal about using contraception? I think it's a little more complicated than that in Africa where people are uneducated and superstition reigns supreme and I personally think the church was wrong for propogating lies about the physical properties of condoms regardless of the spiritual aspect. But I also think the problem is complex enough that there is no one simple answer... ie even if the Pope had said "sure, use condoms to your hearts delight, have at it" I always had to wonder who is going to pay for all of these contraceptives when these people cannot afford food and medicine.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I guess I think that if you are following the church's teaching you aren't having sex outside of marriage for reasons other than procreation - therefore you don't need contraceptives

would someone have sex outside of these parameters but not use contraceptives because the pope denounced them -

if you truly follow the church's teachings - you will do neither

I really don't know anyone who needed a condom for life saving purposes (or really for any reason) that said - no condom - the pope denounced it

Wow! Great post!

 

[BuckNaked]

I guess I think that if you are following the church's teaching you aren't having sex outside of marriage for reasons other than procreation - therefore you don't need contraceptives

would someone have sex outside of these parameters but not use contraceptives because the pope denounced them -

if you truly follow the church's teachings - you will do neither

I really don't know anyone who needed a condom for life saving purposes (or really for any reason) that said - no condom - the pope denounced it

That's been my argument all along as well - why blame the Pope or the Catholic Church for people that aren't following Church teachings anyway? It has never made sense to me that people that aren't following the abstinence teachings are for some reason faithfully following the no condom teachings.

 

[simpilotswife]

I really don't know anyone who needed a condom for life saving purposes (or really for any reason) that said - no condom - the pope denounced it

There are many people in Africa who are told exactly that.

 

[BuckNaked]

There are many people in Africa who are told exactly that.

I don't think she saying they weren't told that, she was saying she didn't know of anyone that needed condoms for life saving purposes that said "No, I can't do that, the Pope said so".

 

[simpilotswife]

That's been my argument all along as well - why blame the Pope or the Catholic Church for people that aren't following Church teachings anyway? It has never made sense to me that people that aren't following the abstinence teachings are for some reason faithfully following the no condom teachings.

How many Catholics do you know where one spouse is more devout than the other? Personally I know many.

Just because one half of a married couple is not faithful does that mean that the other half should suffer for that sin?

What about a spouse who is raped and gets AIDS as a result?

 

[holycow]

My DH and I were having a discussion about this...since most people want "changes" in the catholic church...but what people are forgetting is that ....we aren't here to change religion...religion is here for us to change and better ourselves. That is what amazes me about the gall of people....If you can't live the lifestyle that is dictated by your church then you go find another one that fits your lifestyle and justify your actions for wanting to live that way.


Holycow

 

[simpilotswife]

I don't think she saying they weren't told that, she was saying she didn't know of anyone that needed condoms for life saving purposes that said "No, I can't do that, the Pope said so".

Just because she doesn't know any that doesn't mean that they don't exist. Most especially in third world countries.

 

[BuckNaked]

How many Catholics do you know where one spouse is more devout than the other? Personally I know many.

Just because one half of a married couple is not faithful does that mean that the other half should suffer for that sin?

What about a spouse who is raped and gets AIDS as a result?

I know lots of couples like that, and I'm opposed to one spouse suffering because of the infidelity of the other. But that's something that the couple needs to work out within the framework of their marriage, taking into account how much they want to follow the teachings of the Church. But that doesn't mean that the Church should have to change its teachings on the issue.

But I highly doubt that the AIDS explosion in Africa is a result of couples where one is devout and the other one isn't.

As for your example, I would say the same thing - it's up to the couple to decide how they want to handle it. But I doubt that AIDS transmission through rape is so prevalent that it is really a big issue.

 

[BuckNaked]

Just because she doesn't know any that doesn't mean that they don't exist. Most especially in third world countries.

Then that goes back to the OPs original question - if they are so faithful in following the Church's teaching on no condoms, why aren't they just as faithfully following the Church's teachings on no sex outside of marriage?