I hope this is ok to post

[SpecialK]

The point is not if I agree with abortion,it was not on the approved material for this class that they sent home.This is simply something I would like to talk to my kids about in a parental setting, it does have alot to do with our own thoughts on the subject. They sent a letter explaining all the material they were allowed to discuss,the teacher was caught off guard and didnt know how to handle the question.I did not yell at her or put her down.....and no I will never tell my children that it is a form of birth control, when I do explain to them in detail it will not be in that context.
abortion in general it is not something they should take lightly or in place of birth control in any way, I will not feel bad for feeling that way.she was caught off guard she did not explain it well and all he learned is that "it was a form of birth control" thats why it should not have been talked about, if they wanted to add it to the material and inform parents then spend a certain amout of time explaining what it was and the aftermath of doing something like that then fine,inform the parents and do it right.

I'm a former teacher who also taught sex ed. If the letter that was sent home stated the topics that they were "allowed" to cover, then the teacher should have had a response ready for a topic that was not pre-approved.

With that age group, she could have explained that there were topics that she was allowed to address in class and that she would speak to the student who asked the question privately or direct the student to ask that question at home.

If the list that was sent home was that specific, the teacher shouldn't have addressed it.

 

[Ohiodislover]

they did send home the curriculum on this class and that was NOT on it,the teacher told me herself this was not on the curriculum,so I was NOT expecting it.

What would you have wanted the teacher to say when it was brought up by the student?
Did the teacher tell you what she answered or are you going by what your son stated she said?
Have you spoken with other parents to see what info their children took from the class to see if maybe your son was confused or misinterpreted the remarks?

I don't mean to imply that you don't have the right to be upset. However I would probably get all the info I could before I got too upset. I might see this as an opportunity to talk with my child about my views, and be thankful that the door was open.


I see no problems with kids being given answers to questions. At least they are asking an adult, as others have stated.

 

[livie1205]

ok I think some people are just not reading the whole post...it has NOTHING to do with KNOWING about abortion...it was talked about in the form of birth control which I do NOT want them thinking.My kids are not snowflakes people...they run around the neighborhood and play on their own, I let them go places without me and I dont gripe their teachers out for telling little jonny about our surprise wdw trip! I just simply was not ok with learning about abortion as birth control...my kids know about sex,we have had the talk ect ect....I do not hover at all but even though I am PRO CHOICE I think it is MY choice to let my child know it should be a fail safe for sex...they need to know to use protecting so they dont die from HIV.They need to know if you have sex you have to be safe, and YES I think there is a aftermath for people that choose abortion.They need to know these things and not just have a word like abortion just tossed out.This is a 1 week class,plenty of time to not brush over the details if this is what they want to teach.

 

[livie1205]

I'm a former teacher who also taught sex ed. If the letter that was sent home stated the topics that they were "allowed" to cover, then the teacher should have had a response ready for a topic that was not pre-approved.

With that age group, she could have explained that there were topics that she was allowed to address in class and that she would speak to the student who asked the question privately or direct the student to ask that question at home.

If the list that was sent home was that specific, the teacher shouldn't have addressed it.

YES this is the point

 

[Magpie]

they did send home the curriculum on this class and that was NOT on it,the teacher told me herself this was not on the curriculum,so I was NOT expecting it.

I can tell you incest isn't in our curriculum either, but it frequently comes up as a topic, thanks to shows like Law and Order.

A sex ed teacher can't just stick to the curriculum. The teacher has to be able to think on his or her feet, and answer any question that comes up. And the teacher has be prepared in case a child reveals something actionable (such as molestation) in class. Sex ed is a really tricky topic, but a very necessary one, too.

It would be unfortunate if your son's teacher refused to answer non-curriculum questions in the future - I'm hoping she'll discuss the issue with other more experienced teachers and figure out a way of handling unexpected topics with tact and sensitivity.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

As a parent who strongly believes that children should know that they can ask anything about sex. Refusing to answer a child's question in sex ed class teaches the exact opposite message. I would be very surprised if abortion didn't come up in the class, and very angry if it weren't addressed if it did.

There's a private school near me, where a child asked a teacher whether someone can have "2 mothers". The teacher told him that's the kind of thing you need to ask your parents, because it's not an "appropriate topic for school".

My child has 2 moms, me (via adoption) and the woman who gave birth to him. Reading stories all day long about some types of families, and then telling my child his family can't even be discussed, carries a huge value judgement.

Telling a child that abortion can't be discussed, carries a similar bias -- it tells the child how you feel about it, and is no more appropriate than telling the kids that you think abortion is a great idea. A teacher should do neither, instead she should stick to the facts.

 

[KerriSue]

Bottom line...sex ed begins at home!

I always felt that these classes are offered for those families who do not discuss these topics at home. I have always felt that if you give your child as much information on all points of any topics, you have given them all the tools to make the best decision for them.

 

[SpecialK]

As a parent who strongly believes that children should know that they can ask anything about sex. Refusing to answer a child's question in sex ed class teaches the exact opposite message. I would be very surprised if abortion didn't come up in the class, and very angry if it weren't addressed if it did.

There's a private school near me, where a child asked a teacher whether someone can have "2 mothers". The teacher told him that's the kind of thing you need to ask your parents, because it's not an "appropriate topic for school".

My child has 2 moms, me (via adoption) and the woman who gave birth to him. Reading stories all day long about some types of families, and then telling my child his family can't even be discussed, carries a huge value judgement.

Telling a child that abortion can't be discussed, carries a similar bias -- it tells the child how you feel about it, and is no more appropriate than telling the kids that you think abortion is a great idea. A teacher should do neither, instead she should stick to the facts.

I agree, but the fact remains that in this case a list of specific topics to be covered was sent home for parent approval. That permission letter exists for a reason, I suspect because those topics were pre-approved by the administration and the school board. The list should also have been given to the students at the beginning of the course so that this type of situation could have been avoided.

 

[Ember]

ok I think some people are just not reading the whole post...it has NOTHING to do with KNOWING about abortion...it was talked about in the form of birth control which I do NOT want them thinking.

I guess what some of us are having trouble with is how else you would address it. By definition it is a form of birth control, it prevents the birth of a child. What it isn't, is a preventative form of birth control which should have been made clear.

I'm unclear as to whether you wish the subject had never been discussed at all, or whether you object to the manner in which is was brought up. Because I agree with a PP, but telling students, "I'm sorry, we can't discuss that here." You're sending a very negative message that could have lasting harmful effects.

 

[livie1205]

I think it would have come across better if she had not grouped it in with birth control methods and simply stated it was a medical way of ending pregnancy.I have already explained to him what it is and let him know the options for safe sex including abstaining and condoms, along with how your life changes with teen pregnancy.There are PLENTY of topics teachers can not and will not answer in class,I will not change my mind of the subject, it should not have talked about as birth control.

 

[DisMN]

It was during a talk about birth control, and like I said I am not anti abortion at all I just didnt feel ok that it was being learned about at school.When I spoke with the teacher she said it was NOT a subject that they have in the class to learn about, she was just taken by surprise and the topic got away from her.She said she will not be talking about it again.When I asked my son what HE thought it was he said "a form of birth control" because that is what they were learning about.I had to sit him down an explain it was not.

The facts are it actually is a form of birth control, just not one you would personally consider using but it is birth control and hopefully a form thought of as a last option. Glad you were finally able to share with your son what your views were.

At 12 years old I would imagine most kids already understand what abortion is, but may not have accurate information. I say to the teacher as well, at least that class of kids has factual information to take home and discuss with their parents.

Completely agree. This discussion at school simply encouraged more discussion and clarification at home, something that it was high time for IMHO.

I would have no problem with this being discussed in a sex ed class...in fact, I think I would be disturbed if it wasn't brought up at all. JMHO.

I agree. How can you have a class on sex ed and avoid the topic of abortion? Why would you have a class on sex ed and avoid the topic of abortion?

The point is not if I agree with abortion,it was not on the approved material for this class that they sent home.This is simply something I would like to talk to my kids about in a parental setting, it does have alot to do with our own thoughts on the subject. They sent a letter explaining all the material they were allowed to discuss,the teacher was caught off guard and didnt know how to handle the question.I did not yell at her or put her down.....and no I will never tell my children that it is a form of birth control, when I do explain to them in detail it will not be in that context.
abortion in general it is not something they should take lightly or in place of birth control in any way, I will not feel bad for feeling that way.she was caught off guard she did not explain it well and all he learned is that "it was a form of birth control" thats why it should not have been talked about, if they wanted to add it to the material and inform parents then spend a certain amout of time explaining what it was and the aftermath of doing something like that then fine,inform the parents and do it right.

And you were going to have this talk with them exactly when? No offense, but if you hadn't already done so I think the possibility is very high that you would have continued to put it off and would have never had the discussion with him. IMHO the teacher did you a big favor by opening that door for you. Yay teacher! LOL

Are you seriously thinking that the teacher shouldn't talk about anything that isn't on the approved material list if a student asks the question? I don't understand that line of thinking.
You want the teacher to leave the child hanging, maybe afraid or unable to ask any one else or worse, just let the child to get their answers from sources with inaccurate and scary bad information?

I've taught sex ed for this age group! There's always at least few in the class who watch shows like "SVU" and "Criminal Minds" at home, so they can be counted on to bring up some pretty hairy topics.

During our birth control class, a child volunteered that some people use abortion as birth control, and immediately another child replied that abortion murders babies. I told them that abortion ends a pregnancy. But not everyone agrees on exactly when an embryo becomes a baby, and there are difficult questions around what exactly is best for the individual pregnant woman. HOWEVER, one thing EVERYONE agrees on is that abortion is a very serious medical procedure, and it's not something anyone would choose to do for fun. So the best thing to do is not get pregnant in the first place.

Then I asked the class, "Who here can tell me how to prevent a pregnancy from happening?"

And then we covered different methods of pregnancy prevention, including abstinence. And we discussed methods to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg, too, which brought us briefly back to abortion.

Other classes covered STIs, fetal development, power issues in relationships, roles for men and women, the impact of advertising on our self image, and lots more.

I don't think your teacher did anything wrong here. When running a sex education class it is VERY important that the children feel safe to ask any question at all (we have an anonymous question box). And it's also important that they know that their questions will be answered, and that no one will judge them for asking.

I tend to fall back a lot on, "Some people believe A, and some people believe B. What you and your family believe is up to you, but just remember - in this classroom we have respect for everyone's beliefs."

Fantastic education!!

It's a sexual education class. Among the relevant topics of discussion in such a class would be oral sex, homosexuality, transexuality, rape, statutory rape, date rape, date rape drugs, pedophilia (with or without reference to recent church scandals), the off camera antics of Tiger Woods, and yes....all forms of birth control from a simple condom to the extremes of hysterectomy. Education means not picking and choosing from the facts at hand. You think a 12 year old doesn't watch the news, or read articles online or talk with their friends on the playground? Forget horrible abortion baby photos held up by protesters, I'm more disturbed by the late spays you see on Emergency Vets (but would you stop your kids from watching a TV show about dedicated vetrinarians?). They know about most of these things already, but they know about them in an an incomplete and inaccurrate way. Better for them to be educated about it, if not by the parents who should be doing it, then by their teachers.

Again, when were you planning on having the discussion with your son? Now was a perfectly good time.

OP, I think once you start talking about it, sharing your views and all that it will get easier and you'll be giving info to your son that YOU want him to know! Good luck....abortion and birth control are never easy topics to discuss, especially with your children!

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I agree, but the fact remains that in this case a list of specific topics to be covered was sent home for parent approval. That permission letter exists for a reason, I suspect because those topics were pre-approved by the administration and the school board. The list should also have been given to the students at the beginning of the course so that this type of situation could have been avoided.

Are you suggesting that they pass out a list at the beginning and tell the kids "if it's not on the list, you can't talk about it?" because I'd have problems with that.

If you're suggesting that the list contain a statement that other topics brought up by students will be discussed calmly and factually, and then list topics such as abortion, pedophilia etc . . ., then I'd be OK with that.

Better yet, if you're suggesting that abortion actually be added to the list (which makes sense to me, given that I'm sure kids bring it up every year, and this would prevent those conversations happening without preparation), then I agree.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Abortion is an absolutely appropriate topic to discuss in sex ed. IMHO of course.

I think it's appropriate, especially seeing as a student brought it up. You can't expect everything that is talked about or taught in school to reinforce your family's personal beliefs. That's when communication and discussion at home come in. Abortion is not a happy topic by any means, but neither is Sex Ed.

 

[Magpie]

I'm a former teacher who also taught sex ed. If the letter that was sent home stated the topics that they were "allowed" to cover, then the teacher should have had a response ready for a topic that was not pre-approved.

With that age group, she could have explained that there were topics that she was allowed to address in class and that she would speak to the student who asked the question privately or direct the student to ask that question at home.

If the list that was sent home was that specific, the teacher shouldn't have addressed it.

You're right, assuming the teacher is tied to the curriculum and not allowed to adapt it to her class's needs. I have to say, though, that I would not be happy teaching like that, because it would mean squashing almost all class discussion.

I'm afraid it would end up being like the sex ed classes I remember from my high school days. We listened to a lecture, and then we were given a fill-in-the-blanks test. In one class, we were handed photocopied line drawings of male and female genitalia and told to label the parts. It was very boring, and we spent most of our time making fun of the teacher, whom we theorized was probably still a virgin.

I knew where my cervix was located, but I didn't know that girls could enjoy sex - and, in fact, have every right to enjoy it just as much as boys. Our classes were, "Just the facts, ma'am." And as a result, they never told us what we really needed to know.

 

[FireDancer]

Abortion can be discussed in a way that puts facts out that don't further an agenda in either direction. It is a medical procedure and if the procedure is talked about without a pro or anti agenda I see no reason for it not to be discussed in school. If the person in question has a strong opinion that he or she couldn't keep under control during the conversation perhaps they aren't the person to be having such talks with young students.

Now, if a teacher took an "abortions are great and we should hand them out like candy" or, conversely, "if you even think about them you will rot in ..." then it went from an appropriate discussion about a medical procedure to personal belief structure and that would be wrong.

As for calling it birth control, well, it kind of is, isn't it? It doesn't have to be in the 'substitute for a condom' kind of way but the bottom line, whether you are pro or against them, is that the end result is no birth.

 

[livie1205]

I guess what some of us are having trouble with is how else you would address it. By definition it is a form of birth control, it prevents the birth of a child. Wat it isn't, is a preventative form of birth control which should have been made clear.

I'm unclear as to whether you wish the subject had never been discussed at all, or whether you object to the manner in which is was brought up. Because I agree with a PP, but telling students, "I'm sorry, we can't discuss that here." You're sending a very negative message that could have lasting harmful effects.

This was NOT made clear,thats my point.I dont see how a teacher telling a student she can not discuss something can have as many harmful effects as a teenage girl thinking abortion is birth control,having a abortion then dealing the the harmful effects she MAY have from that.My point has been made,I am not spending my day debating it.

 

[DisMN]

I think it would have come across better if she had not grouped it in with birth control methods and simply stated it was a medical way of ending pregnancy.I have already explained to him what it is and let him know the options for safe sex including abstaining and condoms, along with how your life changes with teen pregnancy.There are PLENTY of topics teachers can not and will not answer in class,I will not change my mind of the subject, it should not have talked about as birth control.

Sorry. We posted at the same time. If abortion was discussed as a form of birth control and you disagree with that then once again the teacher did you a favor by opening the door so you could share your views and feelings on the subject.

You weren't in the class so don't be too sure the teacher "grouped" abortion in with birth control. Depending on the timing of the question your son and the other kids may have misunderstood and thought the teacher was discussing it as a method of birth control. It just may have been the timing of the question.........
I'm so glad you've been able to share your views now with your son. This is a good thing. LOL

 

[kaytieeldr]

ok I think some people are just not reading the whole post...it has NOTHING to do with KNOWING about abortion...it was talked about in the form of birth control which I do NOT want them thinking.My kids are not snowflakes people...they run around the neighborhood and play on their own, I let them go places without me and I dont gripe their teachers out for telling little jonny about our surprise wdw trip! I just simply was not ok with learning about abortion as birth control...my kids know about sex,we have had the talk ect ect....I do not hover at all but even though I am PRO CHOICE I think it is MY choice to let my child know it should be a fail safe for sex...they need to know to use protecting so they dont die from HIV.They need to know if you have sex you have to be safe, and YES I think there is a aftermath for people that choose abortion.They need to know these things and not just have a word like abortion just tossed out.This is a 1 week class,plenty of time to not brush over the details if this is what they want to teach.

No, I think everybody is reading and understanding your entire posts. A couple of people have asked - but at least I haven't seen it answered - how, exactly, would you have liked the teacher to have answered this question? She has admitted to you that she was caught off-guard. What specific response would you have liked her to provide to that student? What, realistically, would you have said in that teacher's place at that moment?

I'm not being critical, I'm genuinely asking. You're upset over the way the teacher handled the question, and I realize you're not a teacher, but how would you have answered that unexpected question. Keep in mind you have to educate the students AND keep the parents from getting upset

I'm a former teacher who also taught sex ed. If the letter that was sent home stated the topics that they were "allowed" to cover, then the teacher should have had a response ready for a topic that was not pre-approved.

There would be a difference in whether the letter indicated the topics were 'allowed' to be discussed or whether they were 'planned' to be discussed.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

What about a child who hears that "abortion isn't something we discuss" and so doesn't know that there are safe/legal ways to obtain one and dies in a back alley?

What about a child who hears that "abortion isn't something we discuss" and so doesn't bring it up to her parents, and doesn't find out about their values, or that they're willing to help her support her child, or that open adoption exists etc . . .

What about a child who doesn't hear about abortion in the class, and so doesn't realize that it's surgery and carries risks, and continues to have unprotected sex thinking "I'll just get one of those abortion things".

I think the best solution would have been for them to include this in the curriculum, which allows it to come up at an appropriate time, and with a prepared teacher. I'm not surprised it came up when discussing birth control, because the topic of not wanting to be pregnant is on kids mind at that time. If you want that not to happen then planning for the conversation in advance makes sense.

 

[Tuffcookie]

If a student brought it up, I don't see anything wrong with the teacher diwscussing it. I would rather my child be taught correct information than learning it on the street.

TC