I hate mobility scooters

[SMD]

What do you do about busses then?

Who would anyone assume anything they ever do would be free of people with disabilities? We have the ADA for a reason. These people should be assumed to be nearly anywhere you could go.

And since Disney hires disabled people of all sorts of abilities, it is irresponsible to make a proclamation that it does not apply back stage. Because it most certainly does.

And since the tour is sold to the public--that is problematic for ADA to NOT apply without declaring why that is so.

I took the city bus to school. Another student who used my stop was in a wheelchair. I have no problem with the bus being lowered and him being loaded first. It's part of riding the bus and I am aware that to be on time I need to catch the bus by a certain time to allow for delays. When I've paid for an optional tour, Disney or not, and someone takes it upon themselves to affect the operation of that tour and my experience, which I paid for with certain expectations, that's different. Am I not owed the courtesy of a warning that they will be altering the tour so that I may make an informed decision that the altered tour still meets my needs as well.

 

[sam_gordon]

When on earth did i ever say that people should be burned at the stake? What the heck? The message I'm trying to get across is this discussion is mean spirited. I'm not saying just because you have a different opinion that you should be crucified.

Wow you try and get people to be more considorate towards others by trying to put them in others shoes and they accuse you of being out to "get" people.

I don't think the DISCUSSION has been mean spirited. Some individual posts/posters have crossed the line IMO, but that doesn't mean everyone is "mean". People on both sides of this issue are lumping people together. So, that being said, the only ECV drivers I have problems with are those who aren't paying attention/following too close and hitting walkers. If the walkers are already in front of them, it shouldn't matter if they stop all of a sudden. If there's no one in front of an ECV and someone jumps out and gets hit, I'm not going to have sympathy for the "victim".

The first poster that wrote that was talking about not being able to lift a POWER wheelchair into a van and needing a lift or ramp van.
They didn't say power wheelchair, but it was a response to power wheelchairs.

Thank you. It's hard to tell (since that poster didn't quote who they were replying to) what they meant. At least it was for me.

 

[experiment_6two6]

You know how hard it is leaving after wishes, try navigating that throng.

Try renting one for a day at the parks and see how tough it really is. I'm willing to bet you will quickly change your tune!

I have relatives that use these because they need them so I am completely on board and supportive of those who use them in the park. There is just a certain stigma due to those who do abuse the use of them, much like a person who "borrows" their handicapped mothers parking pass to get a close parking spot.

While reading through this entire thread, I sat here and wondered how I would react if I used one in the parks now. I'm sure it would be a very eye opening experience for me, realizing the stuff you hear and go through.

However, more than one person has mentioned that navigating the crowds when the park closes right after wishes is an extremely difficult task. If I were to try and rent a scooter, I cannot help but to think that I would park myself out of the way, while the rest of the crowd disperses. I am sure if a cast member told me to leave, they would appreciate the fact that I want to stay out of the way to not hit others. I mean, I would just get angry with all these people stepping in front of me, so why not take an extra ten minutes to spend time in the park with the people I came with, while taking in the sights of Main Street USA, out of the way of everyone else...

 

[NotUrsula]

Wait a second. Are you really claiming a manual wheelchair is heavier and harder to transport than a motorized scooter? No way.

You wouldn't think so, would you? However, when it comes to privately-owned travel scooters, this is actually usually true in practice. (Not weighs less, but is easier to transport.) I wouldn't have believed it myself had I not had years of experience with them.

Typical hospital-grade wheelchairs are solid steel, and that's what most people get at first, or as travel-rentals. Full-sized chairs usually weigh at least 45 lbs empty. However, it isn't the weight that's the problem, it's the shape. The folded size of one is close to
3 ft. square and a foot thick when you count all of the parts that stick out. When my mother got one none of us then owned any vehicle other than a passenger sedan. The only way we could transport the chair was on a bike rack. Racked on its' side it reached fender to fender on a Toyota Corolla, and we had to be very careful to mount it high so that the wheels didn't touch the ground when navigating driveways. The only part that can be removed without a wrench is the footrests., We were HUGELY relieved after 6 years, when her insurance company finally agreed that she needed a lightweight chair. Her condition was degenerative, and she never could move the standard chair more than about two feet without help. The lightweight had an aluminum chassis, a lower back, and no solid side-plates; it was MUCH easier to move onto and off of the rack.

A private 3-wheel travel scooter model, such as a smaller Go-Go, weighs about 65 lbs including the battery, but normally can be broken into five pieces that snap together with spring latches. MUCH easier to deal with, though there is usually about a 10 min. breakdown or setup time. A REALLY compact model such as the TravelScoot can fold without the battery, and even fit in an overhead bin. (http://www.usatechguide.org/itemreview.php?itemid=1420)

My feeling is that while scooters are in themselves wonderful tools that can help disabled people stay engaged in their communities, use in public places ought to require a users permit; partly because they can indeed cause injury to others, but also because so many of the people using them have diminished eyesight and reaction times. As one man I know told me, "if I can't see to safely drive my car anymore, I can't see to safely drive that thing, either."

One of the issues I have seen with the dead-man throttle design on rental models is that it is in exactly the same position as the hand brake on a bicycle, but works with the opposite function. Instead of letting go of the lever when needing to come to a sudden stop, many new users instinctively squeeze it instead.

 

[stitchfan75]

How about if ECV rental places required a doctor's prescription in order to rent the ECV for the parks? Granted there will still be individuals that cheat the system and get their PCP to write one but it might prevent some of the people who really don't need one from renting.
I don't mind them, my dad used one after his stroke but I have also been victim to an 8 year old messing around with one at Walmart while her grandmother was in the bathroom, she backed into me and then panicked and ran into the water fountain. Also, I even understand the accidental tagging when you have people "N to B" as my dad says...but at least apologize. That is what bothers me more, not the scooter but the lack of decency and manners that some will display like it's YOUR fault of walking in front of them.

 

[BagOLaughs]

I don't think the DISCUSSION has been mean spirited

I'm afraid that it has been mean spirited. I'm not referring to specific people but there was one person who posted on here that is now worried about other people's opinions and is embarrassed to use a scooter, should the ever need one. So this discussion threat has had a negative impact on someone already.

And like i said before. the message I'm trying to spread is one of compassion. I have never once mentioned about "burning people at the stake" for having different opinions.

Anyway I'm finished with this thread. I'd like to leave on the following message.

People please, have compassion and consideration for others. If you have a run in with someone (ECV or otherwise) and they apologise, be gracious and accept the apology. Forget about it and carry on with your day. If they don't apologise, even if they shout abuse ,ignore them, walk away and carry on with your day. Life's too short.

 

[LuvN~Travel]

I have seen it from both angles, pushing a wheelchair or a stroller and almost hitting someone who decided that they just ABSOLUTELY had to get six feet the other side of us ASAP! But, I've also been hit by a wheelchair user who himself I am sure had a very difficult time in life with his disabilites, but could have used some common sense himself. (He plowed through the middle of several lines in a restaurant instead of just going back down the lane and going across that way and then back up the lane he wanted). I think many on both sides of the issue forget their manners and common sense in crowded places like WDW. Just like Sue said, it is like the car who waited until the last minute to change lanes from the far left to get to the exit ramp on the far right! How many times in real life has that happened? Many are like that at WDW, they totally ignore the people around them and jump right in front of any conveyance, whether it be wheelchair, stroller or scooter. And, they probably do that in real life. Almost got me a pedestrian that way the other day on my way to work. lol She walked right out into the crosswalk, while on her cell, when she didn't have the hand/light to go. I had the green. Did I hit her? Well of course not. (Now if my horn had been louder on my car I might have honked it just to interrupt her 'so important' conversation. ) Do most wheelchair or stroller pushers or scooter users try to hit someone who does that? Nope! They are usually trying to stop or turn to avoid the hit. It is actually easier to judge the person's speed in front of you and give enough leeway, than the crazy one who jumps from the side right in front of you though. But, we also made the decision to also use manners when we had our daughter in a wheelchair each time at Disney. We usually stayed single file in line to let others go around us. No need to hog the entire middle of the road! And, I forsee the need at the moment for me to use a scooter next time we go. I hate it, really hate it! But, with my back problems, five herniated disks, arthritis and one really tricky knee, I may have to. (Let's just say the Post Office is heck on bodies) I just hope after I retire in the fall I can really walk to get more in shape and hopefully help things before another trip comes up. But, just like in real life, people don't always think of others do they? I would never post a thread about hating someone's conveyance of this type. Should scooter users take more time to learn to manage their scooter? Well of course they should! You would find that most of the wheelchair and scooter users on the disboards do just that! Just check and see what nice people frequent the disabilites forum. However, I think many will take one or two moments of a bad experience and let it color their experiences from then on. Is the bad experience you had on either side of the issue going to actually happen the same way again in another trip? Probably not. And, maybe we can learn from those bad experiences in a good way. Learn to be more considerate and most importanly be more aware of what is around you.

 

[SMD]

I'm afraid that it has been mean spirited. I'm not referring to specific people but there was one person who posted on here that is now worried about other people's opinions and is embarrassed to use a scooter, should the ever need one. So this discussion threat has had a negative impact on someone already.

And like i said before. the message I'm trying to spread is one of compassion. I have never once mentioned about "burning people at the stake" for having different opinions.

Anyway I'm finished with this thread. I'd like to leave on the following message.

People please, have compassion and consideration for others. If you have a run in with someone (ECV or otherwise) and they apologise, be gracious and accept the apology. Forget about it and carry on with your day. If they don't apologise, even if they shout abuse ,ignore them, walk away and carry on with your day. Life's too short.

So because someone is sensitive to what other people think then we can't have a discussion? Maybe they should take your advise and ignore the comments they don't like and move on with their day. The idea that people should just accept getting hit with a heavy object is laughable.

 

[cornflkgrl]

Perhaps if Disney World wasn't so crammed with people beyond what it can reasonably handle, folks would not feel compelled to blame their lack of comfort/space/enjoyment in getting around on: strollers, mobility devices, backpacks, tour groups, etc. etc. and so on and so forth. Maybe it is a complaint you should throw Disney's way and not in the form of "I hate mobility devices" (which is really offensive...as I'm sure has already been said in this thread somewhere) but maybe worded as: "Hey, Disney, perhaps you need to think about the number of hotels you continue to build relative to the capacity of your darn parks because if you want to continue to be able provide equal access...you really need more space to accommodate." Of course, they'd probably take that as support for their tiered plan

 

[TLSnell1981]

How often does it happen compared to how often ECV's hit someone?

No.


Wait a second. Are you really claiming a manual wheelchair is heavier and harder to transport than a motorized scooter? No way.

They are not referring to a manual wheelchair.

 

[sam_gordon]

They are not referring to a manual wheelchair.

Yea, that was established earlier. Thanks for the help though.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The real problem is they are stuffing too many people into the parks, and they do not have the infrastructure to accommodate people in EVCs and the 10,000s of people walking around.

 

[TLSnell1981]

It's hard not too when you see this complaint many times over. It's hard enough psychologically having to use one, and when you hear such negativity about them it still stings. That's just human nature.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Yea, that was established earlier. Thanks for the help though.

Did I misread the quote in your post? If I did, I am sorry. Carry on.

 

[SMD]

Perhaps if Disney World wasn't so crammed with people beyond what it can reasonably handle, folks would not feel compelled to blame their lack of comfort/space/enjoyment in getting around on: strollers, mobility devices, backpacks, tour groups, etc. etc. and so on and so forth. Maybe it is a complaint you should throw Disney's way and not in the form of "I hate mobility devices" (which is really offensive...as I'm sure has already been said in this thread somewhere) but maybe worded as: "Hey, Disney, perhaps you need to think about the number of hotels you continue to build relative to the capacity of your darn parks because if you want to continue to be able provide equal access...you really need more space to accommodate." Of course, they'd probably take that as support for their tiered plan

The original post wasn't in reference to mobility devices in Disney parks at all. Disney could do more to enforce theit own safety rules, though. I've seen people with a child on their lap drive up and ask for a WC return pass at DL. The CM could ask them to take the kid off their lap before handing out the return. Shouldn't it be common sense that if you're using an unfamiliar device in a crowded park you need to be careful. As PP said, after a show when people are exiting maybe wait back and let things clear. Instead people are saying equal access means everyone else works around you and if we get hit, oh well, ignore it. ECVs should be allowed wherever possible, but that doesn't mean anything goes or that the drivers bear no responsibility to alter their behavior for the sake of non-ECV user's either.

 

[sam_gordon]

Did I misread the quote in your post? If I did, I am sorry. Carry on.

No, you didn't. Someone else clarified the poster I quoted was referring to a POWERED wheelchair (same thing you did, just about 30 minutes before you).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I took the city bus to school. Another student who used my stop was in a wheelchair. I have no problem with the bus being lowered and him being loaded first. It's part of riding the bus and I am aware that to be on time I need to catch the bus by a certain time to allow for delays. When I've paid for an optional tour, Disney or not, and someone takes it upon themselves to affect the operation of that tour and my experience, which I paid for with certain expectations, that's different. Am I not owed the courtesy of a warning that they will be altering the tour so that I may make an informed decision that the altered tour still meets my needs as well.

Well, you paid for a bus. Payment for a private tour absent disabilities seems a bit extreme.

I just looked up the requirements. Not sure which one you went on, but a "walking" tour does not mean that being ambulatory is required UNLeSS it is stated (and they have a compelling reason for that requirement). It seems that your inconvenience is not a compelling reason and to expect it is inappropriate on your part.

For example--I did find a store where being ambulatory IS a requirement. That was a tour at Fort Wilderness. Click and then click on the accessibility information. https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/e...rness-resort/wilderness-back-trail-adventure/

Unfortunately, being a "walking" tour does not and never did mean that wheelchairs, scooters, or other mobility devices were not permitted nor did it mean Disney intended the tours only for those perfectly healthy and ambulatory.

I asked where it said it and it seems they don't say it except on very specific tours due to the nature of the activity. Much like not all rides are accessible to all guests as some require the ability to transfer. But that is disclosed ahead of time.

I don't expect everything to be accessible 100% of the time because logistically that is impractical and sometimes unfair. For example, if a ride could be built only if it was entirely accessible for everyone. If that were the case, then no ride could ever be built unless it accommodated even the most special of wheelchair needs.

Simply closing something off because other guests would be annoyed that a readily available elevator would have to be used would be beyond unfair. That is not reasonable.

 

[SMD]

Well, you paid for a bus. Payment for a private tour absent disabilities seems a bit extreme.

I wouldn't say without disabilities. But without someone else impacting the operation of the tour to the point that it alters my experience. If I took a tour of Chicago and a scheduled stop at Wrigley Field was skipped because of someone's peanut allergy I might have asked to take a later or earlier tour because that stop was important to me. Maybe I've been to Wrigley before and would choose to continue, but it should be my choice.

 

[kaytieeldr]

My feeling is that while scooters are in themselves wonderful tools that can help disabled people stay engaged in their communities, use in public places ought to require a users permit; partly because they can indeed cause injury to others, but also because so many of the people using them have diminished eyesight and reaction times.

That would only be reasonable if every battery-operated vehicle - including kids' scooters and electric bicycles, for example - required a user permit.

How about if ECV rental places required a doctor's prescription in order to rent the ECV for the parks? Granted there will still be individuals that cheat the system and get their PCP to write one but it might prevent some of the people who really don't need one from renting.

Free enterprise. Outside vendors rent mobility devices for a variety of uses. It's also unreasonable to put added burden and expense on a group of people going on vacation.

Many rental companies never see the client. How would you propose the prescription be provided?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

How about if ECV rental places required a doctor's prescription in order to rent the ECV for the parks? Granted there will still be individuals that cheat the system and get their PCP to write one but it might prevent some of the people who really don't need one from renting.
I don't mind them, my dad used one after his stroke but I have also been victim to an 8 year old messing around with one at Walmart while her grandmother was in the bathroom, she backed into me and then panicked and ran into the water fountain. Also, I even understand the accidental tagging when you have people "N to B" as my dad says...but at least apologize. That is what bothers me more, not the scooter but the lack of decency and manners that some will display like it's YOUR fault of walking in front of them.

My understanding is that such a requirement to would be illegal.

When I rented medical equipment last year, I only had to provide a "prescription" if insurance was picking up the tab. I certainly did need the equipment. (Literally told to prevent my foot was amputated because if the bone moved even the slightest bit, it meant surgery.). As I paid cash for my wheelchair rental, I did not need to provide proof. I did have to provide proof of disability for my temporary placard, though.