How Would You Help?

[ronandannette]

...And, as far as an expensive holiday gift... Don't cast pearls before swine. (Not that I am calling anyone 'swine'... but the message is there)

These situations are just SO difficult to see, and you want to 'help'.
Heartbreaking...
It is HARD!!!

But, remember, giving should be about helping others feel better, not feeling better about oneself.

...I do not think it means what you think it means...

 

[luvsJack]

Based on everything we've read in this thread, I'd be willing to bet the parents have already bought presents - having "Christmas" is probably where the money for the utilities went. It sounds like a chronic case of the parents just refusing to correctly prioritize their spending. Going out to eat and going on vacations are things responsible people do after they have paid their utility bills, not instead of paying them. They know what they're doing and they clearly know the consequences, since it apparently happens often.

@luvsJack , when it comes to giving, there's a point at which you have to decide what your actual goals are. If you feel like this family is a "mission" of some sort and you plan to walk with them for the long-haul, then there's a different level of onus on you to really figure out what would be truly helpful in steering them onto the right path versus just enabling the pattern. OTOH, if this is just a situation you've caught a glimpse of and you feel compassion for the kids, just buy them a nice gift or two (not a trampoline, no offence but that's a dumb idea), invite them in for a festive meal over the season and back slowly away.

ETA: Who watches the kids while they're both at work all the time? Just curious...

They go from school to a friend’s house that keeps them for free. Through the break, the mom said she will work different hours so that the same person can keep them during the day (my neighbor asked because she had no intention of getting stuck babysitting).

I can’t invite them for a meal but neighbor and I are meeting in town and will decide what to get the kids. And will include a few groceries or a grocery gift card(thinking a grocery store rather than Walmart so they have to buy groceries and paper products.)

Yeah, I really do see everyone’s point on the trampoline. We just thought that we could get that, it would be the one “big gift” for all of them and then maybe they could get some smaller things or if not it would really be enough. But seeing now it wouldn’t be the best idea. Although neighbor’s husband said if they get evicted he would go get the thing. They live right next door.

 

[luvsJack]

From what I have noticed, most people who are poor, or working poor, smoke , drink and have tattoos. Yes, there are NBA players making $20 million a year that look like walking bill boards. And some of those go bankrupt, some don't.

All three of my kids have tattoos. All make decent money. All pay there bills. All only get a tattoo if/when they can afford it.

OTOH, I can’t say you are a hundred percent wrong. It just that a lot of working poor make horrible choices when they do get money (like tax returns). It’s not that all people with tattoos make bad choices.

 

[wenrob]

From what I have noticed, most people who are poor, or working poor, smoke , drink and have tattoos. Yes, there are NBA players making $20 million a year that look like walking bill boards. And some of those go bankrupt, some don't.

And you know how many working poor? A lot of our own enlisted military are working poor. In any case there’s a difference between working poor and people who just refuse to grasp the concept of money management. Truly working poor people are ones that are busting their butts day in and day out and just don’t make enough. People who get a break on their rent and then blow the extra cash on who knows what or are planning a vacation with tax return money in December when they don’t have water or lights have poor money management skills. One deserves compassion and the other deserves a serious wake up call.

 

[GreatLakes]

I’m tattooed and drink and I manage to pay my bills just fine.

And that is perfectly fine. However, if you have trouble paying for necessities you shouldn't be paying for unessential things like cigarettes and alcohol. Whether that trouble is because you are working poor or a poor money manager doesn't matter.

Tattoos are also not essential so while you are having trouble paying bills you shouldn't waste money on them but since they are permanent anyone could have gotten them when there were in a different financial place so I'm not sure they are really in the same category.

I can tell you I would harshly judge someone that couldn't pay their electric, water, or gas bill that decides to buy non-essentials like cigarettes and alcohol. If I couldn't keep my kid warm in winter I'm not wasting my money on a 6-pack and lung cancer. YMMV.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

All three of my kids have tattoos. All make decent money. All pay there bills. All only get a tattoo if/when they can afford it.

OTOH, I can’t say you are a hundred percent wrong. It just that a lot of working poor make horrible choices when they do get money (like tax returns). It’s not that all people with tattoos make bad choices.

The issue I would have with the PP's comment is that it's a "correlation does not equal causation" situation.

The root issue is mismanagement with money.

 

[wenrob]

And that is perfectly fine. However, if you have trouble paying for necessities you shouldn't be paying for unessential things like cigarettes and alcohol. Whether that trouble is because you are working poor or a poor money manager doesn't matter.

Tattoos are also not essential so while you are having trouble paying bills you shouldn't waste money on them but since they are permanent anyone could have gotten them when there were in a different financial place so I'm not sure they are really in the same category.

I can tell you I would harshly judge someone that couldn't pay their electric, water, or gas bill that decides to buy non-essentials like cigarettes and alcohol. If I couldn't keep my kid warm in winter I'm not wasting my money on a 6-pack and lung cancer. YMMV.

My reply was not about tattoos or drinking is was about stereotyping people.

 

[luvsJack]

UPDATE: all utilities will be restored today. Not sure how, I am guessing they both got paid or something. Neighbor just texted me and let me know they are going home. But she said, they had to repay some deposits. No idea if they will be able to pay anything on the car and not let it get repoed. But they do have lights water and gas.

So we are back to our plan of a few gifts for each kid and probably a grocery gc and be done. At least we know the kids will have some gifts to open, heat if it gets cold, water to bathe and something to eat.

 

[Snowflakey]

Great news about their utilities. Have you reached out to local church/school to see if there are any holiday food baskets they can get for them? Our town does food baskets and toys for the needy - I"m sure a few calls could score some gifts for the kids. Toys for Tots???

 

[bigbabyblues]

Based on everything we've read in this thread, I'd be willing to bet the parents have already bought presents - "having Christmas" is probably where the money for the utilities went. It sounds like a chronic case of the parents just refusing to correctly prioritize their spending. Going out to eat and going on vacations are things responsible people do after they have paid their utility bills, not instead of paying them. They know what they're doing and they clearly know the consequences, since it apparently happens often.

Yep. This was my bio mother. It isn't that they can't pay the bills, they are just choosing not to, or at least not to pay on them.

 

[mumto3girls]

UPDATE: all utilities will be restored today. Not sure how, I am guessing they both got paid or something. Neighbor just texted me and let me know they are going home. But she said, they had to repay some deposits. No idea if they will be able to pay anything on the car and not let it get repoed. But they do have lights water and gas.

So we are back to our plan of a few gifts for each kid and probably a grocery gc and be done. At least we know the kids will have some gifts to open, heat if it gets cold, water to bathe and something to eat.

Sounds like the best short term outcome anyone could have hoped for in this situation. So nice of you to care and to try to help out. I hope the children have a nice Christmas. Some of my best Christmas memories were playing board games, Barbies and puzzles with my sisters for hours on end. And once I was old enough, reading chapter books late into the night as I was falling asleep. All very affordable options. Legos or something like that would be nice too and all fairly affordable. Happy shopping!

 

[luvsJack]

Great news about their utilities. Have you reached out to local church/school to see if there are any holiday food baskets they can get for them? Our town does food baskets and toys for the needy - I"m sure a few calls could score some gifts for the kids. Toys for Tots???

I hadn’t thought about that. Just figured it was too late. We will do that today too. Thanks!

 

[Southernmiss]

Not to be a Debbie Downer--just realistic...

Most organizations like Toys for Tots and Angel Trees are all over with. The donations have been made by the givers and those receiving gifts are picking them up this week/weekend.

I referred a few people who called our church this week to these organizations, but the list that I have says that final registration for Toys for Tots was 12/4 (after registration started in October and went on several different dates and times through November). The distribution for Toys for Tots here is tomorrow.

And churches are busy with service preparations now for the weekend and 12/24 and 12/25 which are Monday and Tuesday. I am within 15 minutes of leaving our church office and heading home to not return until 12/27.

So time is getting short for those who have not searched for help before now.

 

[Tuffcookie]

luvsJack, You are a good person.

TC

 

[ronandannette]

I hadn’t thought about that. Just figured it was too late. We will do that today too. Thanks!

I'd urge you not to. Unless these people are truly impoverished you will be diverting resources from people who actually might be. Based on all you've said, it really doesn't seem like that's their situation. Ask the mom what they got the kids for Christmas - I'll bet the gifts are "better" than the type of things that often come from the toy drives. Simply having more stuff, acquired from charitable sources, isn't really what these kids need for a happy holiday.

 

[mummabear]

I dont think a trampoline is a good idea.

Can you pay off a bill directly?

 

[china mom]

@luvsJack I had no idea that you lived next to my brother and his wife and kids. The stories sound so similar. They can't/won't pay their bills but when they fall into a little bit of money, it is treated like found money and used on an extravagance. My SIL is a psychologist and supposedly has a pretty good practice. My brother has had some pretty good jobs and some not so good jobs over the years but has always worked hard. But they never have money for necessities.

They stopped paying their mortgage in hopes of one of those bailouts and just never got the paperwork right. So, they went about five years making no mortgage payments until they finally lost the house. At one point, the power had been cut off.

for our area, a $1,000/mo mortgage would be considered low. Do the math

$1,000 x 12 months x 5 years = $60,000. That's how much they should have had after five years of no mortgage. Nope, they got nothing. Ended up moving in with her parents.

They always managed to give their kids every single electronic, dance lessons, basketball camp and such. I'm sure no one there ever went hungry. They even went on vacation every year. But when it came to paying faceless entities like the bank or the power company, they figured that they didn't have to.

While I appreciate your desire to make sure the children have a good Christmas, I would consider the possibility that they are already getting better gifts than your kids are.

 

[ronandannette]

@luvsJack I had no idea that you lived next to my brother and his wife and kids. The stories sound so similar. They can't/won't pay their bills but when they fall into a little bit of money, it is treated like found money and used on an extravagance. My SIL is a psychologist and supposedly has a pretty good practice. My brother has had some pretty good jobs and some not so good jobs over the years but has always worked hard. But they never have money for necessities.

They stopped paying their mortgage in hopes of one of those bailouts and just never got the paperwork right. So, they went about five years making no mortgage payments until they finally lost the house. At one point, the power had been cut off.

for our area, a $1,000/mo mortgage would be considered low. Do the math

$1,000 x 12 months x 5 years = $60,000. That's how much they should have had after five years of no mortgage. Nope, they got nothing. Ended up moving in with her parents.

They always managed to give their kids every single electronic, dance lessons, basketball camp and such. I'm sure no one there ever went hungry. They even went on vacation every year. But when it came to paying faceless entities like the bank or the power company, they figured that they didn't have to.

While I appreciate your desire to make sure the children have a good Christmas, I would consider the possibility that they are already getting better gifts than your kids are.

I can only fantasize about what I'd do with 5 years worth of rent/mortgage money if I didn't pay it. I think you're very likely right about the situation and to think of giving them Angel Tree presents and grocery hampers is quite far off the mark.

 

[kuhltiffany]

Yep, stay away from the money situation and just concentrate on getting something for the kids. Love the trampoline idea, it's something they can all use and exercise and fresh air are always a good thing to encourage...

 

[Hikergirl]

Great news about their utilities. Have you reached out to local church/school to see if there are any holiday food baskets they can get for them? Our town does food baskets and toys for the needy - I"m sure a few calls could score some gifts for the kids. Toys for Tots???

These people aren't needy, they are financially irresponsible.
It's very nice that the OP wants to help the kids, but judging by what she says about them, this isn't a case of parents who can't, it's a case of parents that won't help themselves.