How would you handle this -work related (update pg.2)

[KristiKelly]

Ok, I'm going to explain this as best as I can & hope that it makes sense (sorry may get long).

My husband runs his own company, nothing fancy, it's a machine shop & he mainly makes the metal frames for office furniture companies, metal furniture & also little fix it jobs for lawn companies, local textile companies, etc. , not a big place just five other people including myself (I do paperwork @ home, when I'm not DISing ).
DH has had one person, Chris, that has been pretty much next in charge when DH is out with customers or on vacation. He recently found out that one of our customers, who has a lawn bus. , has been paying Chris to come to his business & do work for him. Last year alone, he paid Chris $10,000 for work done, this is the same work that DH normally would do, but Chris did directly instead. DH never knew any of this until just recently. A friend of ours has a landscaping co. and was recently @ a training class for fountains & goldfish ponds and this same guy who has the lawn co. was there as well. He started telling our friend & another customer of DH that "yeah, we used to get him (DH) to fix our stuff, but now we just get his boy, Chris to come to our place & do work for us and pay him directly." DH has always known that this other guy is slime, has known that he tries to take other employees away from people, etc., but this is the first time anything like this has happened to him directly. Also, it's not just that he has done this, but he is also telling other customers this & could take more business away. I know that it's a dog eat dog world, but DH is sooo... P-O'd right now, he feels very betrayed by Chris that has worked for him for 8 years. He has spoken with several people & they've said very matter of factly "fire his @#*". DH would have had no trouble if Chris had just gotten a 2nd job, but what he did was deceitful & deliberately took money away from our company & the company that he works for & pays for his & his families insurance. DH has asked Chris on several (more than several occassions) to work overtime knowing that he has a wife & 2 small kids, but he would not, because I guess he had his "other job". He told Dh that this other guy was paying him $25 an hour, but with overtime, DH would have been paying him $22(overtime that is), not worth the difference in my opinion to destroy trust & a friendship.

Anyway, I guess what I want to know is, how would you handle this situation? Is DH overreacting? He says, "when I think about it I just get so mad & then I try to see both sides & I feel like a three year old who's just not getting my way, but it just irritates me!" Would other companies tolerate an employee going to a customer directly and doing work personally & taking the bus. away from the company? Does that make sense? I told you this would be long & I feel it may be a little confusing, if you can figure out what I'm trying to say then I would like your opinion.

 

[Maleficent13]

No, another company would not tolerate it and your DH shouldn't either. At pretty much every job I have worked, I have signed something saying I was free to get a second job but not in the same field without my current employer's knowledge and permission. If your husband doesn't have one of these agreements, he should get a lawyer to draw one up for him ASAP.

Sorry about your luck. That sucks.

 

[jkovick]

This Chris is hurting your business. It is a conflict of interest for him to work for you and then take work away from your business. Tell him he can have it one way or the other but not both.

 

[Hillbeans]

Because of the line of work your DH is in, the guy Chris definitely crossed the line.

Say you owned a Steam Cleaning business and one of your EE's started steam cleaning on the side for cash. Wouldn't you consider that disloyal? The Steam cleaning business would be out the customer that THEY found. It's different if a customer just went through the phone book and found them on their own. It's wrong IMHO.

 

[DoeWDW]

I agree with Mal. I am not allowed to get a second job without notifying my current employer and making sure that there is no conflict with my current job. If your DH has not made this policy clear to his employees then Chris probably isn't doing anything illegal by working on the side - maybe immoral, but not illegal. Chris is free to do whatever he wants on his own time.

Tell your DH to make sure everyone knows (signs a paper that they KNOW) this policy is now in place. Have DH call Chris in privately and let him know that DH did not expect to be treated that way, it's water under the bridge and now Chris needs to choose - DH's business ONLY or on his own.

Best of luck with this. It's not easy having your own business.

 

[gymnasticsmom68]

I think if Chris is doing a side job it's really none of your husband's business. Chris puts in his hours at work, if somebody offers to let him do a job for more than the $22 an hour, I say go for it. $22 an hour overtime isn't that much. It would only be stealing from your husband's company if the people came into your shop and Chris siphoned off work from your husband. If it's completely outside the company, it's completel outside the company. The business that Chris is given wasn't your husband's to start with, so he's not taking anything from your husband.

 

[shatzjsl]

I'd be fired in a heartbeat if I did something like that. Working two jobs is fine but you don't steal from your main employer to do it. It's just wrong.

 

[LindaR]

This is a warning........where there is one type of "dishonesty", there will be other incidents that may be hidden. Embezzlement, false billing claims, supply shortages, etc.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I think your DH should give the guy an option of either signing a standard Employee Non-Compete agreement or going to Contractor status.

As a contractor your husband would simply pay him an hourly fee for work completed, but not be responsible for payroll taxes or benefits.

 

[minniecarousel]

ahhh...but Chris IS taking work away from her DH's shop. The guy he's doing the work for tells other people that he "used" to have her DH do the work - now he just works "under the table" with Chris. I imagine your DH has grounds to fire him - his other option is to do what's been suggested here: to have all employees sign an agreement to not take a second job doing this same type of work. I'm sure a lawyer could draw up papers. If he fires Chris - is there a possiblity that he could set up enough work to be competition for your DH? That would be a good reason to NOT fire him.

 

[tkd lisa]

I'd do an official warning in writing. I'd also put together the agreement mentioned here. It's probably not grounds for firing, but he may decide to quit if he can't do the "second job" anymore.

Also, I'd immediately make him a "normal" employee, not the 2nd in command. If there is no one else able to be 2nd in command, hire someone or train them. This guy isn't the type of person who you want representing your business.

 

[gymnasticsmom68]

My husband runs his own company, nothing fancy, it's a machine shop & he mainly makes the metal frames for office furniture companies, metal furniture & also little fix it jobs for lawn companies, local textile companies, etc. , not a big place just five other people including myself (I do paperwork @ home, when I'm not DISing ).

To the OP, is your husband's company mainly a machine shop that makes metal frames and 'on the side' does small fix it jobs?

Chris doing fix it jobs is not stealing from the husband's company, the company itself is mainly a machine shop that makes mainly metal frames. The 2 things are completely different. If I were to say, own a McDonald's and on the side I cut lawns in the summer, if one of my employees from McDonald's started cutting lawns, would not be the same thing as him going to work for Burger King. They are 2 completely different entities. Just because the 'small fix it' jobs are done on premises, does not matter.

 

[Jasminesmommy]

I would do the agreement thing also does he use the work tools when doing side jobs?

 

[KristiKelly]

gymansticsmom, all is done in the same building unlike McDonalds & cutting lawns. These were customers of our business, the money we make ALL goes into the same checking account (unlike McDonlads & lawn cutting), the same checking account that has paid Chris' salary, insurance, paid for him to be out when he sprained his foot while playing basketball (off work time), put up with him coming in @ 8:00 when workday starts @ 7:00, taking an extra 10 min. of lunch. By on the side, it IS NOT done out of our house, it just means that the majority of our money comes from furniture, these ARE NOT 2 different businesses but ONE. Also, by side job, this is just not the majority of our business, but my husband would have taken a $10,000 very serious, not as a side job. I feel if Chris knew what he was doing was RIGHT & ETHICAL then DH would've known about it a long time ago, secrets are usually a sign of deceit & dishonesty.

 

[Tuffcookie]

What Chris is doing is wrong. This was a former customer. Very unethical.
I would certainly consult with an attorney about what you can legally do now.

TC

 

[Hillbeans]

Originally posted by Jasminesmommy
I would do the agreement thing also does he use the work tools when doing side jobs?

good point. Does he?

 

[izzy]

Originally posted by KristiKelly
gymansticsmom, all is done in the same building unlike McDonalds & cutting lawns. These were customers of our business, the money we make ALL goes into the same checking account (unlike McDonlads & lawn cutting), the same checking account that has paid Chris' salary, insurance, paid for him to be out when he sprained his foot while playing basketball (off work time), put up with him coming in @ 8:00 when workday starts @ 7:00, taking an extra 10 min. of lunch. By on the side, it IS NOT done out of our house, it just means that the majority of our money comes from furniture, these ARE NOT 2 different businesses but ONE. Also, by side job, this is just not the majority of our business, but my husband would have taken a $10,000 very serious, not as a side job. I feel if Chris knew what he was doing was RIGHT & ETHICAL then DH would've known about it a long time ago, secrets are usually a sign of deceit & dishonesty.

Sounds like you've got a lot of reasons other than the conflict of interest/second job to get rid of good ol' Chris. I agree with the poster who said if he's doing this, who knows what else he might be doing. I am a fraud investigator, and I can tell you that if a person has been getting away with one type of behavior for awhile, they are most likely doing other things, too.

 

[gymnasticsmom68]

KristiKelly, I asked my husband what he thought, he and his family own a company and he agrees with you.

 

[Sunfleur]

My family owns our own business. We've had problems such as this in the past. I would not hesitate to fire him. He is willfully causing damage to your company. If he's willing to steal business from you, what else will he steal? Your good name, your reputation? My advice is to get rid of him.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

So basically as an employee he is "undercutting" your company from clients of yours.
He really cannot be held responsible for the former client telling people about "paying under the table".
Any business that does that is slime, like you said.

So if Chris is doing this side work was he paying the company for the materials? There would have to be some record of it right?