How to prepare kids for relatives with differing lifestyles/values OP POSTS #94

[LilyWDW]

And OP, I apologize for my first response as I was writing it before I saw your response. So now I will answer your additional questions.

While I do not have children, we have had to deal with these questions within the family. Honestly, some things have led to some family no longer being welcomed on holidays. There were issues in the past where the ways other family acted (adults and kids) that led to a split in the family. When you flat out have people who do not respect the rules and beliefs of others it can lead to a lot of hard feelings.

That said, being exposed to things you "don't believe in" will not automatically make problems. In fact I often think such things, when exposed to properly, can solidify someone in their beliefs because it makes them think more as to WHY they don't agree with the other side.

Now, with your example of exposing your daughter to the political discussion, I sort of agree with you. To me, it is not about what the discussion is about. It is about how the "adults" are acting during it. I would be more worried about the heavy drinking and how the discussion is being done. My family often discusses politics and we have a huge range of beliefs when it comes to it. But we never yell, use bad language, or put down others based off of their beliefs. It is a polite, well informed, well argued discussion based off of fact and educated thought.

As for the situation with your sister... to me that is something that is not worth the worry. She needs to explain to her children her expectations. That should be enough. Is it really worth the fight and the strain it might put on the family relationship?

 

[nym4588]

I am not an authority on anything, God is.

Agreed.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Our Christian church does a Seder every few years hosted by a Messianic Jewish rabbi, but I never heard of non-Jews giving Hanukkah gifts. As for the Chinese New Year parade, I guess if I live'd in a city that HAS a Chinese New Year parade, I could see about going to one.

You've never heard of people who are not culturally Jewish giving Hanukkah gifts, or you've never heard of people who are culturally Jewish, but secular in their beliefs giving Hanukkah gifts?

All the people I know in the latter category celebrate Hanukkah and Passover in some fashion. Just like those of us who are culturally Christian, but don't actually believe in Jesus, usually have Easter and Christmas traditions.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Wow! That's what I get for posting a thread topic and then being away from the boards for over 24 hours, huh?

The whole "religion" topic is what caused me to spend a few days phrasing my question before I even bothered to post. I REALLY did not want to veer off into where the thread derailed which is one reason I did not leave any specific examples with my original post.

That being said, I totally get that everyone has differing values and that it is healthy for kids to be exposed to differences in order to open dialogue as to what their beliefs/values are or should be. Totally get it. However, I wasn't really referring to that as much as this: Do you have certain things that you DO not compromise on when your kids are at family member's homes? What are the "no way, no how" areas? (I understand that this will be different for everyone.) If you do have these areas, HOW do you handle them? Do you reference the "rules" prior to the family get-together or do you find that addressing them as they come up works better? I can see problems with both-I do not want my daughter to offend the host(s) by stating something that might appear to be "judging" them nor do I want her to be exposed to things that we do not believe in.

Do you believe that consistency in your "family rules" outweighs the fact that you are together with family you do not see very often?

For example...My husbands' side of the family is very volatile and tends to be politically minded with every single one of the members of his family having a totally different political lean. This is ALWAYS discussed very heatedly at every get-together, and it is not pretty or constructive. Add to that fact that there is often heavy drinking and horribly offensive language being batted around in general...well, it makes me concerned about putting my daughter in that kind of environment...even for a short amount of time.

A totally different example from my side of the family: both of my sisters (one older, one younger) have preschool age kids. This past Christmas my older sister expressed concern about coming for Christmas dinner at my younger sister's house because my younger sister's daughter is not expected to sit at the table like her own children are. My niece has never been a good eater and so is often allowed to get down to play while we are eating. This was concerning to my older sister who said that this was a bad example to her own kids as they would rather be playing with their cousin instead of having to follow "the family rules" at the dinner.

As you can see, neither of these examples deals with religion so I hope we can steer the topic back on course.

Thanks! IVY

1) As far as the political example, have to learn to tune them out and then leave before everyone is 3 sheets to the wind. That is something that quite frankly has no compromise or end to it.

2) The sister thing, is a good example. My kids would have to follow my rules and have to remain at the table. Remember, you are modeling different behavior and setting an example. It might prompt the cousin to stay at the table.

So bottom line avoiding things that are uncomfortable is not the way to teach your child your values. Your kids learn in the face of adversity, so don't forget that.

 

[NYEmomma]

A totally different example from my side of the family: both of my sisters (one older, one younger) have preschool age kids. This past Christmas my older sister expressed concern about coming for Christmas dinner at my younger sister's house because my younger sister's daughter is not expected to sit at the table like her own children are. My niece has never been a good eater and so is often allowed to get down to play while we are eating. This was concerning to my older sister who said that this was a bad example to her own kids as they would rather be playing with their cousin instead of having to follow "the family rules" at the dinner.

We were just at a friend's house on Saturday... went to an Easter egg hunt at their church and then back to their place for lunch. For as strict as we are with our children, I believe that they're even moreso. Typically after DD finishes her meal, we let her get up from the table and play (basically so that DH & I can spend a minute talking to each other instead of her, lol!). But we've been to their house enough times to know that they don't allow anyone up from the table until EVERYONE is done. So when DD finished her lunch and wanted to get down, we told her she had to wait until everyone was done.

When they're at our house, we do the same thing even though we're the more lenient ones.

Our nephews pretty much run wild & get even crazier when they're around the whole family on holidays (thanks to some idiotic uncles). They rarely even sit down to eat when we're all together and BIL & SIL don't make them. That doesn't mean that DD gets to throw all our rules out the window though. She still has to sit (on her behind and not on her knees or hanging halfway off the chair) and eat all of her dinner -- or finish as much as we tell her to -- and then she can ask to be excused. I know we get looks of incredulity from BIL but oh well, that's how we choose to raise our kids.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

1) As far as the political example, have to learn to tune them out and then leave before everyone is 3 sheets to the wind. That is something that quite frankly has no compromise or end to it.

2) The sister thing, is a good example. My kids would have to follow my rules and have to remain at the table. Remember, you are modeling different behavior and setting an example. It might prompt the cousin to stay at the table.

So bottom line avoiding things that are uncomfortable is not the way to teach your child your values. Your kids learn in the face of adversity, so don't forget that.

Interesting. For me and my family we follow our family values everywhere, but, except for safety related rules, when we're visiting we follow the rules of the household we're visiting.

For example, I allow my child to eat in the living room, my mother doesn't, so when he's at my mother's house he doesn't eat in the living room.

To me, getting down from the table is a rule, not a value, so I'd allow my kid to get down and play with their cousin.

On the other hand, there are certain words and phrases my child isn't allowed to say. To me, this is a value, so if we visited a family where they were allowed I'd call my kid over and remind him that we don't use them anywhere.

 

[capshockeygrl]

You picked some pretty somber holidays, "celebrating" Yom Kippur or Ramadan would be a little like "celebrating" Ash Wednesday in terms of tone.

I'll admit I don't know everything there is to know about Ramadan, but every Muslim I've known definitely treats it like a celebration at the end of the daily fast. There was a hookah bar & restaurant that I frequented when I was younger and every Ramadan, they'd invite my friends and I to partake of their amazing feast (and never charged us) when we went in for smoke. As soon as the sun went down and the feast began, it was like a party in that place.

 

[Southernmiss]

Wow! That's what I get for posting a thread topic and then being away from the boards for over 24 hours, huh?

The whole "religion" topic is what caused me to spend a few days phrasing my question before I even bothered to post. I REALLY did not want to veer off into where the thread derailed which is one reason I did not leave any specific examples with my original post.

That being said, I totally get that everyone has differing values and that it is healthy for kids to be exposed to differences in order to open dialogue as to what their beliefs/values are or should be. Totally get it. However, I wasn't really referring to that as much as this: Do you have certain things that you DO not compromise on when your kids are at family member's homes? What are the "no way, no how" areas? (I understand that this will be different for everyone.) If you do have these areas, HOW do you handle them? Do you reference the "rules" prior to the family get-together or do you find that addressing them as they come up works better? I can see problems with both-I do not want my daughter to offend the host(s) by stating something that might appear to be "judging" them nor do I want her to be exposed to things that we do not believe in.

Do you believe that consistency in your "family rules" outweighs the fact that you are together with family you do not see very often?

For example...My husbands' side of the family is very volatile and tends to be politically minded with every single one of the members of his family having a totally different political lean. This is ALWAYS discussed very heatedly at every get-together, and it is not pretty or constructive. Add to that fact that there is often heavy drinking and horribly offensive language being batted around in general...well, it makes me concerned about putting my daughter in that kind of environment...even for a short amount of time.

A totally different example from my side of the family: both of my sisters (one older, one younger) have preschool age kids. This past Christmas my older sister expressed concern about coming for Christmas dinner at my younger sister's house because my younger sister's daughter is not expected to sit at the table like her own children are. My niece has never been a good eater and so is often allowed to get down to play while we are eating. This was concerning to my older sister who said that this was a bad example to her own kids as they would rather be playing with their cousin instead of having to follow "the family rules" at the dinner.

As you can see, neither of these examples deals with religion so I hope we can steer the topic back on course.

Thanks! IVY

When I was growing up, we often visited my mom's sister and her husband who drank heavily and often had discussions with language that our parent's didn't use. As kids, we would go play with the cousins. I knew the language and drinking were going on, but that was for the grown ups not for us kids. I also knew that what we did at our house was different. But it was always FUN for us to go over there, because of the differences and there were always a variety of people coming to visit them. It also taught me and my sibs which way we wanted to raise our families.

To the dinner table issue, at a large gathering, the kids are excited anyway and my food rules go out the window for that day. It's one day and it's a celebration for goodness sakes. Kids table and adults table would work here.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Interesting. For me and my family we follow our family values everywhere, but, except for safety related rules, when we're visiting we follow the rules of the household we're visiting.

For example, I allow my child to eat in the living room, my mother doesn't, so when he's at my mother's house he doesn't eat in the living room.

To me, getting down from the table is a rule, not a value, so I'd allow my kid to get down and play with their cousin.

On the other hand, there are certain words and phrases my child isn't allowed to say. To me, this is a value, so if we visited a family where they were allowed I'd call my kid over and remind him that we don't use them anywhere.

I also follow the "rules of the house".

I was speaking to OP about her sister's concerns and a different way to look at it.

 

[mimmi]

Political discussions mixed with alcohol can be very uncomfortable, especially when people use foul language, we don't contribute (usually hoping that the fight ends quickly) and as much as I sometimes would like to shield my daughter from bad influence or values I consider problematic, I don't do it.
Getting in contact with other views, other ways to express opinions and other values will be positive for her in the long run. She knows what behaviour and language is acceptable to us and concerning political views, beliefs and things like that she will have to form her own opinions anyway, I just try to be an example for her.

About the table rule: we have the rule that everybody stays at the table until we all are finished,my sister in law doesn't. When we are visiting my SIL I'm usually lenient. We visit 3,4 times a year, our daughter will be fine if she gets up earlier and play with her cousins. She knows that visiting relatives isn't the same as our every day life and that different families have different rules.

We don't have many no goes, I drew the line once, when her cousin called her horrible names and pulled her hair so hard he had whole strands in his hand (and my SIL still didn't say a thing) and I wouldn't accept dangerous behaviour.

Everything else we consider a life experience.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Do you have certain things that you DO not compromise on when your kids are at family member's homes?

Um, well, yeah. There are certain things that my children wouldn't be allowed to do no matter what. Underage drinking or smoking, watching R movies (well, the 13 year old at least), driving without a seatbelt...

If you do have these areas, HOW do you handle them? Do you reference the "rules" prior to the family get-together or do you find that addressing them as they come up works better?

As others have said before "stricter rules" prevail. If we are stricter than the host family, our children follow our rules. If the host family rules are stricter, they follow their rules (as long as they aren't completely out of line).

For example...My husbands' side of the family is very volatile and tends to be politically minded with every single one of the members of his family having a totally different political lean. This is ALWAYS discussed very heatedly at every get-together, and it is not pretty or constructive. Add to that fact that there is often heavy drinking and horribly offensive language being batted around in general...well, it makes me concerned about putting my daughter in that kind of environment...even for a short amount of time.

My family would just not participate in the conversation, and perhaps excuse ourselves. In fact, I might not even go to whatever event it is in which this could take place.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Just put someone on "ignore" before my temper boiled over....

 

[nym4588]

So using that logic, Mormons are Christians?

Every Mormon I've met considers themselves Christian. They believe Jesus is the son of God.

 

[ilovejack02]

Wow! That's what I get for posting a thread topic and then being away from the boards for over 24 hours, huh?

The whole "religion" topic is what caused me to spend a few days phrasing my question before I even bothered to post. I REALLY did not want to veer off into where the thread derailed which is one reason I did not leave any specific examples with my original post.

That being said, I totally get that everyone has differing values and that it is healthy for kids to be exposed to differences in order to open dialogue as to what their beliefs/values are or should be. Totally get it. However, I wasn't really referring to that as much as this: Do you have certain things that you DO not compromise on when your kids are at family member's homes? What are the "no way, no how" areas? (I understand that this will be different for everyone.) If you do have these areas, HOW do you handle them? Do you reference the "rules" prior to the family get-together or do you find that addressing them as they come up works better? I can see problems with both-I do not want my daughter to offend the host(s) by stating something that might appear to be "judging" them nor do I want her to be exposed to things that we do not believe in.

Do you believe that consistency in your "family rules" outweighs the fact that you are together with family you do not see very often?

For example...My husbands' side of the family is very volatile and tends to be politically minded with every single one of the members of his family having a totally different political lean. This is ALWAYS discussed very heatedly at every get-together, and it is not pretty or constructive. Add to that fact that there is often heavy drinking and horribly offensive language being batted around in general...well, it makes me concerned about putting my daughter in that kind of environment...even for a short amount of time.

A totally different example from my side of the family: both of my sisters (one older, one younger) have preschool age kids. This past Christmas my older sister expressed concern about coming for Christmas dinner at my younger sister's house because my younger sister's daughter is not expected to sit at the table like her own children are. My niece has never been a good eater and so is often allowed to get down to play while we are eating. This was concerning to my older sister who said that this was a bad example to her own kids as they would rather be playing with their cousin instead of having to follow "the family rules" at the dinner.

As you can see, neither of these examples deals with religion so I hope we can steer the topic back on course.

Thanks! IVY

WELL I can answer more clearly now ... No heavy drinking and cussing around my child when younger .. now that he is 10 I can handle some inappropriate language , but heavy drinking is out. Goodness , what if something violent broke out and I don't want him to see that you always have to get boozed up at a family get together .. notice heavy drinking . Wine at the dinner table, a mixed drink before dinner .. totally fine with.

Can't be civil , well then we don't need to be at your house and you don't need to be at mine.

The eating issue , if you want yours to sit with family and eat so be it. I have made mine sit at times when he didn't want to . Just because cousins get to play doesn't mean you have to let yours . It is also fine to let them get up and play IF you are ok with it. We can't always be the favorite Mommy on the block can we ? Don't you wish we were all given the same manual to raise our kiddos lol.

 

[alex9179]

An example of what I wouldn't tolerate.

We invited some friends over for a casual evening. One couple has two kids that are good friends with our kids. They've also experienced some recent marital problems and are working on their relationship. The other couple lives next door and their children are grown.
Toward the end of the evening the female member of the younger couple was drunk. She became angry with her partner and started yelling at him and using obscenities. I handed her her purse and told her that she needed to go home. Her behavior was unacceptable and I wasn't going to expose my kids to it (they were playing elsewhere, and I don't think any of the kids heard anything.) She got control of herself and they left. We just spent Easter at their house and had a lovely time. No drunkenness, no arguing.

That is one example of my limits. If I had been at a gathering, with our kids, where people were drunk and yelling curse words, we would have left. Likely would have left, anyway! That is not fun.

At our house, we do usually stay at the table until we're all finished. We'll start cleaning up or allow the kids to finish up their chores during seconds When we're at another's home, they eat at the table and basic manners are expected. They can get up after finishing if the hosts don't mind. What someone else's kid is doing (or not doing) isn't my problem unless they are at my house. Even then, I'm more concerned with safety than manners.

 

[NHdisneylover]

An example of what I wouldn't tolerate.

We invited some friends over for a casual evening. One couple has two kids that are good friends with our kids. They've also experienced some recent marital problems and are working on their relationship. The other couple lives next door and their children are grown.
Toward the end of the evening the female member of the younger couple was drunk. She became angry with her partner and started yelling at him and using obscenities. I handed her her purse and told her that she needed to go home. Her behavior was unacceptable and I wasn't going to expose my kids to it (they were playing elsewhere, and I don't think any of the kids heard anything.) She got control of herself and they left. We just spent Easter at their house and had a lovely time. No drunkenness, no arguing.

That is one example of my limits. If I had been at a gathering, with our kids, where people were drunk and yelling curse words, we would have left. Likely would have left, anyway! That is not fun.

At our house, we do usually stay at the table until we're all finished. We'll start cleaning up or allow the kids to finish up their chores during seconds When we're at another's home, they eat at the table and basic manners are expected. They can get up after finishing if the hosts don't mind. What someone else's kid is doing (or not doing) isn't my problem unless they are at my house. Even then, I'm more concerned with safety than manners.

An example of how everyone is different, because i can totally see where you were coming from wanting her out of your house---I would NEVER want my kids to see me send someone who was drunk off to drive themselves home (which it sounds like was the case based on handing her her purse and telling her to go). I'll go the other way and not allow someone to leave my home to drive if they are drunk--they can stay overnight or I will drive them myself or call them a taxi, but I will not be responsible for having allowed them to get drunk in my home and then go out to possibly kill others or themselves driving drunk. I don;t want to be involved in that from a moral or legal/liability standpoint--and I want my kids to see examples of how to handle that appropriately (MY version of appropriately).

 

[alex9179]

An example of how everyone is different, because i can totally see where you were coming from wanting her out of your house---I would NEVER want my kids to see me send someone who was drunk off to drive themselves home (which it sounds like was the case based on handing her her purse and telling her to go). I'll go the other way and not allow someone to leave my home to drive if they are drunk--they can stay overnight or I will drive them myself or call them a taxi, but I will not be responsible for having allowed them to get drunk in my home and then go out to possibly kill others or themselves driving drunk. I don;t want to be involved in that from a moral or legal/liability standpoint--and I want my kids to see examples of how to handle that appropriately (MY version of appropriately).

No, they were here together with their kids. Her DH drove, safely . The kids weren't present during our exchange, they were playing in my kids' rooms.

We've been friends for years and this had never happened before. My poor neighbors were so uncomfortable and she really did need to go home. One minute we're all laughing and the next she's slurring and swearing. Very strange evening.

 

[NHdisneylover]

No, they were here together with their kids. Her DH drove, safely . The kids weren't present during our exchange, they were playing in my kids' rooms.

Oh good. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

[Ceila]

An example of how everyone is different, because i can totally see where you were coming from wanting her out of your house---I would NEVER want my kids to see me send someone who was drunk off to drive themselves home (which it sounds like was the case based on handing her her purse and telling her to go). I'll go the other way and not allow someone to leave my home to drive if they are drunk--they can stay overnight or I will drive them myself or call them a taxi, but I will not be responsible for having allowed them to get drunk in my home and then go out to possibly kill others or themselves driving drunk. I don;t want to be involved in that from a moral or legal/liability standpoint--and I want my kids to see examples of how to handle that appropriately (MY version of appropriately).

The person you quoted went on to say that "she got control of herself and THEY left." That leaves the possibility that the husband drove home, and of course there is always a chance that they are neighbors and walked. It would have been better if you'd asked for clarification instead of jumping to conclusions and sounding a bit holier than thou.

Edit: just saw the clarification - must have been posting at the same time as the person you quoted.

 

[NHdisneylover]

The person you quoted went on to say that "she got control of herself and THEY left." That leaves the possibility that the husband drove home, and of course there is always a chance that they are neighbors and walked. It would have been better if you'd asked for clarification instead of jumping to conclusions and sounding a bit holier than thou.

I did not mean to sound "holier than thou" at all. Is aw "handed her her purse" and told her to leave and regardless of who ended up leaving, it sounded like she was being given the means and told to leave--not that the sober person was being told to get her out of there.

I can TOTALLY see just wanting that person out and figuring it is on them to get home safely and legally. Thus, my opening comment in the post you quoted. I don;t think the person I quoted did anything wrong. What I WAS pointing out, is how people can react differently to the same situation (since tat is largely what the OP is about). For me, personally, I am very concerned about drunk driving and the liability a host plays in that and I am super aware of it at any get together and also super aware of what example my kids see about that--and it would be a bigger thing to me than if they heard language that I am generally not okay with, etc.

For someone else, they may feel that the impetus is on the guest to not drink too much or to figure out how to safely get home and they may be much more concerned with not allowing their family to be exposed to the kind of behaviour the woman was displaying.

Neither person would be more right than the other, or "holier" than another. They would just be two people who probably both have issue with both the behaviour and how the person is going to get home, but rank those and tackle it a little differently.

All I meant to convey was just that--that people can be good and still have different ways of handling things. I guess to the OP I would say that the way the PARENT handles it, or talks about it with the child later, is likely to have the biggest influence on the child--regardless of how the other relatives are acting or what the cousins are allowed to do, etc.

Alex--if you thought I was trying to say I was better than you, I am truly sorry. That was certainly not my intention. Maybe I shouldn't post so late at night if that is how i am coming off.