Is This The End Of DVC Rentals?

[Matty B13]

If I rented someone else’s points today, I’d definitely want the contract to include that owner confirming they are following DVC’s rental rules and not exceeding payments greater than annual dues.

Good luck finding a DVC owner just renting out points to cover dues, no way I'd waste my time to just cover dues. Just the initial cost of points adds $5/point, so you are already talking about $15/point to cover cost, much less time to setup the rental.

 

[tx911]

I have not seen that stated that anywhere in the terms.

When Disney is renting points which is at minimum 2% of the total points at each property, they are certainly not just covering their portion of annual dues.

That's apparently the metric that Disney has decided to use, according to @Sandisw

 

[Matty B13]

Wow, I didn't see what @Sandisw had posted about the new/not new DVC policy on rentals.......... I guess I'll just be using all my points for reservations now, no way I'm renting for $10/$12 point, just not worth the headaches from renters.

 

[Tatebeck]

Wow, I didn't see what @Sandisw had posted about the new/not new DVC policy on rentals.......... I guess I'll just be using all my points for reservations now, no way I'm renting for $10/$12 point, just not worth the headaches from renters.

It's for the total dues for all of your points for the year. So you can still rent points out for 18/20 dollars per point, but then you cant rent more than around half of your points out for the year

 

[Genie+]

Good luck finding a DVC owner just renting out points to cover dues, no way I'd waste my time to just cover dues. Just the initial cost of points adds $5/point, so you are already talking about $15/point to cover cost, much less time to setup the rental.

It depends how many points you are personally using.

I can still rent BWV standard studio for $35 per point as long as I am still personally using the other 75% of points that I own annually.

But if I wanted to rent 75% of my points out every year, then my rental price is limited at ~133% of my dues cost per point.

 

[Sandisw]

Does anyone really think anything will be changing with such a vague policy? I think Disney is trying to placate complaining DVC members with idle threats to commercial renters. I doubt anything will be enforced, and a year from now, things will be exactly as they have been for the past few years.

I’m going to answer this and then I’d go to the thread we are discussing it.

I can’t answer if enforcement will happen, but based on my extensive conversations so far and what will occur in response to my certified letter requesting review of documents DVC has on file, I would say yes because that is the purpose.

Now, depending on what people were hoping to see DVc, and how they would decide what level or renting is or is not okay, they may not be thrilled with where DVC has landed

But, the big gigantic thread has updates from what I have learned, and what I have seen others post having been given similar info.

 

[Sandisw]

I have not seen that stated that anywhere in the terms.

When Disney is renting points which is at minimum 2% of the total points at each property, they are certainly not just covering their portion of annual dues.

They don’t have the same rules as us when it comes to this.

 

[Genie+]

Honestly, this seems reasonably fair from both sides of the fence.

 

[tx911]

Honestly, this seems reasonably fair from both sides of the fence.

I'd prefer you can only rent enough to pay 75% of your dues

 

[eticketplease]

They don’t have the same rules as us when it comes to this.

I understand Disney plays by its own set of rules. I don't see how they can state you can only rent for the cost of the dues. The points are worth something as well.

That other thread I started with on day 1 but it has gotten way too large for me to catch up on since it really doesn't affect me as I'm not a commercial renter but I am curious to see where the below is spelled out in writing by DVC if you could point me to that section would be greatly appreciated.

It does not, however it does say the product is for personal use and commercial use is prohibited. DVC has decided any gross rental income beyond annual dues cost is the litmus test.

 

[Sandisw]

I understand Disney plays by its own set of rules. I don't see how they can state you can only rent for the cost of the dues. The points are worth something as well.

That other thread I started with on day 1 but it has gotten way too large for me to catch up on since it really doesn't affect me as I'm not a commercial renter but I am curious to see where the below is spelled out in writing by DVC if you could point me to that section would be greatly appreciated.

DVC has always had the right to define what level of renting shifts one to be a commercial.

What they have decided is that if you rent to offset dues you are within your right to rent.

If your rental income exceeds your dues, then it’s a pattern of activity they see as shifting you to commercial.

So, DVC hasn’t taken away anyone right to rent, they haven’t changed the rules for who can stay in a DVC reservation and they are not dictating the terms of your rentals.

All still up to you…rent as many or as few as you want for whatever price you want, but if you rent for more than dues, then you are no longer renting under personal use guidelines.

If DVC sees activity that leads them to believe you are, your account will be flagged and sent for review.

 

[eticketplease]

It depends how many points you are personally using.

I can still rent BWV standard studio for $35 per point as long as I am still personally using the other 75% of points that I own annually.

But if I wanted to rent 75% of my points out every year, then my rental price is limited at ~133% of my dues cost per point.

Totally confused. How do you have it both ways?

Earlier you stated if you rented you want the contract to say it is not exceeding the annual dues but then you are renting points for $35 a point?

Using your example I have a 40 point BWV contract.
9/1/26 uses 10 points which is $90.06 in dues for that reservation and you are renting it for $350.

If you are talking about the whole contract then your annual dues are slightly above the rental at $362.40 but of course when you file your taxes you can't deduct all of your annual dues just the portion that was rented from what I understand to lower the taxable income on the rental (I am not a CPA so not 100% sure but I believe this is correct.)

If I rented someone else’s points today, I’d definitely want the contract to include that owner confirming they are following DVC’s rental rules and not exceeding payments greater than annual dues.

 

[Genie+]

I understand Disney plays by its own set of rules. I don't see how they can state you can only rent for the cost of the dues. The points are worth something as well.

That other thread I started with on day 1 but it has gotten way too large for me to catch up on since it really doesn't affect me as I'm not a commercial renter but I am curious to see where the below is spelled out in writing by DVC if you could point me to that section would be greatly appreciated.

DVC can show you.

I will repeat myself....the POS requires them to give me that in writing, and the FL 721 requires that all records of the association are made available to owners at their request. No different than requesting to reivew the records of the association for budgets, etc.

Failure to give an owner a requested document in 10 days is seen as an attempt by the association to subvert (or whatever the official word is) the law and that they can be chartged $50/day for every day that is late.

The only way they can remove that clause regarding having an official policy in place for commerical purpose, enterprise and actiivty for an owner to review is to file an amendement to the state to have it removed, which the state would approve. All this is explained in FL 721 that governs timeshares.

I have requested it and expect to get it and if not, I will be filing a complaint to say my request to review records has been ignored.

Here is the clause that says there is a written record of the policy and can be reviewed. Not sure why you appear to be arguing against something that the contract states exists.....

View attachment 979156

In that attachment:

“Personal Use, Except for Units or Ownership Interests owned by DVD, which may be utilized as provided in the eclaration of Condominium, each of the Vacation Homes shall be occupied only as vacation accommodations. Except for Units or Ownership Interests owned by DVD, rentals of Vacation Homes to the general public by DVD or the Management Company and use of Vacation Points in connection with the DVC Reservation Component or external exchange programs, use of the accommodations, commonly used facities, and recreational facilities of the Condominium is limited solely to the personal use of the Owners or Cotenants, their lessees, guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership interests in a Unit. No Owner may occupy a Unit or Vacation Home or use any recreational facilities or Common Elements at any time other than during the time that a Vacation Home is properly reserved in accordance with the Condominium Documents. Except as set forth above, use of Vacation Homes, recreational facilities and Common Elements, other than Commercial Units and Commercial Unit LCEs, for commercial purposes or any purposes other than the personal use described herein is expressly prohibited. "Commercial purpose" shall include a patter of rental activity by a Cotenant that the board of directors of the Association (the 'Board"), in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. From time to time, to the extent that the Board determines that use is occurting that is for a commercial purpose, the Board may in its sole and absolute discretion, adopt and amend policies to provide what constitutes a commercial enterprise, practice or purpose. The Association has adopted a policy regarding what constitutes a commercial enterprise, practice or purpose, which policy is a record of the Association and may be reviewed upon request. No Vacation Home in any Unit may be divided or subdivided into a smaller Vacation Home without prior written approval of DVD. No Ownership Interest may be added to a vacation ownership plan, multisite timeshare plan, vacation club or exchange program except as provided in the Declaration of Condominium without written approval of DVD. The provisions of this Section 1 do not apply to DVD or the Management Company.”

I think that is where you’ll find this clarification around what still constitutes personal use, or not.

 

[eticketplease]

DVC has always had the right to define what level of renting shifts one to be a commercial.

What they have decided is that if you rent to offset dues you are within your right to rent.

If your rental income exceeds your dues, then it’s a pattern of activity they see as shifting you to commercial.

So, DVC hasn’t taken away anyone right to rent, they haven’t changed the rules for who can stay in a DVC reservation and they are not dictating the terms of your rentals.

All still up to you…rent as many or as few as you want for whatever price you want, but if you rent for more than dues, then you are no longer renting under personal use guidelines.

If DVC sees activity that leads them to believe you are, your account will be flagged and sent for review.

Where is that documented?

Also if I'm doing rentals that are not on the internet how would they know how much I'm charging to see if I have gone over the Annual Due amount?

 

[Tatebeck]

Totally confused. How do you have it both ways?

Earlier you stated if you rented you want the contract to say it is not exceeding the annual dues but then you are renting points for $35 a point?

Using your example I have a 40 point BWV contract.
9/1/26 uses 10 points which is $90.06 in dues for that reservation and you are renting it for $350.

If you are talking about the whole contract then your annual dues are slightly above the rental at $362.40 but of course when you file your taxes you can't deduct all of your annual dues just the portion that was rented from what I understand to lower the taxable income on the rental (I am not a CPA so not 100% sure but I believe this is correct.)

It has nothing to do with taxes.

It seems right now that if the total amount (or if Disney thinks the total amount) of money you receive from rentals for the entire year is more than your entire dues for the year, then they may consider you commercial.

So you could rent out half of your points for double the dues, or all of your points for exactly the dues amount, etc.

Where is that documented?

Also if I'm doing rentals that are not on the internet how would they know how much I'm charging to see if I have gone over the Annual Due amount?

For right now it has just been verbal, but multiple times on recorded lines. Sandi is awaiting a response in writing to her certified letter, and we will see if that is the same

 

[Genie+]

Totally confused. How do you have it both ways?

Earlier you stated if you rented you want the contract to say it is not exceeding the annual dues but then you are renting points for $35 a point?

In that scenario, I’d be personally using 75% of all the points I own annually for my own personal use (not renting them out), and renting out 25%.

If the dues were $8.67pp, then I could rent 25% of my total points for ~$35pp.

This year BWV is $9.06pp, so if I only rented 25% of my total points I could charge as much $36.24pp and still remain legit.

Using your example I have a 40 point BWV contract.
9/1/26 uses 10 points which is $90.06 in dues for that reservation and you are renting it for $350.

It would depend on how many total you own, and the resulting dues bill. You are not specifically limited in how many points you may rent yearly, but you are specifically limited in maximum gross rental income.

If you are talking about the whole contract then your annual dues are slightly above the rental at $362.40 but of course when you file your taxes you can't deduct all of your annual dues just the portion that was rented from what I understand to lower the taxable income on the rental (I am not a CPA so not 100% sure but I believe this is correct.)

 

[Sandisw]

Where is that documented?

Also if I'm doing rentals that are not on the internet how would they know how much I'm charging to see if I have gone over the Annual Due amount?

Call DVC, or email them, and ask them to give you clarification on what it all means. I talked with a few, including a supervisor on a recorded line, and have been given this info.

I know the thread in DVC is long, but all my info is there!

But nothing to do with taxes…it’s just the information DVC is telling owners who are seeking clarification on what actions an owner can do that will be seen as appropriate in relation to renting your contract.

I pay an annual dues bill of $7k. I can rent as many or as few of my points as I want, as long as my rental income does not exceed that.

 

[eticketplease]

DVC can show you.



In that attachment:

“Personal Use, Except for Units or Ownership Interests owned by DVD, which may be utilized as provided in the eclaration of Condominium, each of the Vacation Homes shall be occupied only as vacation accommodations. Except for Units or Ownership Interests owned by DVD, rentals of Vacation Homes to the general public by DVD or the Management Company and use of Vacation Points in connection with the DVC Reservation Component or external exchange programs, use of the accommodations, commonly used facities, and recreational facilities of the Condominium is limited solely to the personal use of the Owners or Cotenants, their lessees, guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership interests in a Unit. No Owner may occupy a Unit or Vacation Home or use any recreational facilities or Common Elements at any time other than during the time that a Vacation Home is properly reserved in accordance with the Condominium Documents. Except as set forth above, use of Vacation Homes, recreational facilities and Common Elements, other than Commercial Units and Commercial Unit LCEs, for commercial purposes or any purposes other than the personal use described herein is expressly prohibited. "Commercial purpose" shall include a patter of rental activity by a Cotenant that the board of directors of the Association (the 'Board"), in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. From time to time, to the extent that the Board determines that use is occurting that is for a commercial purpose, the Board may in its sole and absolute discretion, adopt and amend policies to provide what constitutes a commercial enterprise, practice or purpose. The Association has adopted a policy regarding what constitutes a commercial enterprise, practice or purpose, which policy is a record of the Association and may be reviewed upon request. No Vacation Home in any Unit may be divided or subdivided into a smaller Vacation Home without prior written approval of DVD. No Ownership Interest may be added to a vacation ownership plan, multisite timeshare plan, vacation club or exchange program except as provided in the Declaration of Condominium without written approval of DVD. The provisions of this Section 1 do not apply to DVD or the Management Company.”

I think that is where you’ll find this clarification around what still constitutes personal use, or not.

Thank you for providing the link to the section.

Nothing in writing there shows that you can't rent for more $$ than your annual dues.

Hopefully @Sandisw will receive the further documentation that was requested and we will know for sure.

 

[Genie+]

Where is that documented?

Also if I'm doing rentals that are not on the internet how would they know how much I'm charging to see if I have gone over the Annual Due amount?

This was exactly what left me wondering how the heck will DVC be able to enforce and Sandisw helped me better understand:

To clarify, I said that the check box is not the enforcement rule....the check box is there so that owners are acknowleding each time they make or change a reservation, they are clear on the rules.

The enforcement will come when an owner's accounts are flagged for activity that appears to show they may be renting in a way that would be for more than the cost of annual dues.

Once flagged, and reviewed, DVC will take action against that owner....we do not know what that will look like and until someone gets caught renting to a degree that looks like it would produce income over the cost of dues, then we do have to speculate.

But, if owners need to rent and do so with the understanding to be sure that rental income received from renting doesn't exceed the dues, then they will be fine.

If I was renting, I'd be sure to have all my ducks in a row (with rental contracts) to support my cause if I did get contacted....if owners actions on their account don't appear to rise to the level to be questioned, then they won't be.

Basically, if I have 900 points, and I want to use them for rentals or family/friends, I will be sure to not exceed 400 points in any one year because that level of renting would keep me below dues.

As someone who does gift points, I intend to actually put in writing with them that I am gifting them the room and that they are not paying for it, and have them acknowledge as such.

I think you point about all those figures is why, IMO, this was a very smart move....because who is going to buy DVC for a commerical reason if they know that DVC now considers anything above the cost of dues to be renting outside of personal use.

I can say, based on the examples and specifics shared, what I inferred, was that DVC isn't going to get to tecnical in this in terms of trying to calcuate it.....an owners dues are $1000 and it looks like the potential here was $1500....they would be reviewed for review.

 

[Genie+]

Thank you for providing the link to the section.

Nothing in writing there shows that you can't rent for more $$ than your annual dues.

Hopefully @Sandisw will receive the further documentation that was requested and we will know for sure.

This is the part where DVC will explain to you how ‘Gross rental income’ exceeding the annual cost of all dues runs afoul of still being ‘for personal use’:

The Association has adopted a policy regarding what constitutes a commercial enterprise, practice or purpose, which policy is a record of the Association and may be reviewed upon request.

It is documented within their current policy of what constitutes a commercial enterprise.