How to fix the TIP issue.

[Dicecatt]

Here is my odd cents...

No matter what, you are going to get people that complain about various things when it comes to tipping. I have a client going on a Carnival cruise in a couple of weeks, outraged that she actually has to tip, and asked if she just requests that no one cleans her room, can she not tip. Lovely. She would rather run out of toilet paper, and have overflowing trash and room service left in her room then cough up a few dollars per person per day for her room steward. This is a woman that STILL hasn't purchased her airfare (departing on March 13) because she can't decide what flight...so the cost is rising as I type...but darn it if that $10 per day for tips isn't going to send her over the edge.

Tipping in general on a cruise equates to less than 2 extra alcholic beverages a day, or a few sodas a day on other lines. If someone truly is that tight with money, then they'd better hope the fuel surcharge doesn't happen! If you aren't prepared to tip, don't go out to eat. Don't go to a spa. Don't have your car washed by hand. Don't travel. Geez, in Egypt, I had to tip to get a small square of necessary toilet paper! Gratuity should be built in the budget, because, very simply, it IS. To try to change it is to not only to change the cruise industry in general but also the service industry.

 

[Mickeyhugger]

Those of us who have cruised with system have found it leads to inferior service.
After all tip stands for:
To
Insure
Promptness.

If servers know they get the tip without regard to the level of service they provide, they just do the minimum.

exactly

 

[slg]

I always do my best at my job, always, and I don't get tips. Why do we assume that everyone will do a lousy job if they don't get tipped? Those of you who don't work in the service industry, do you do the bare minimum at work because you don't get a tip? Let's not assume that those who do service work only go the extra mile because they'll get a better tip and not because they don't take pride in their work.

I assume everyone will try to do their very best at their job, and if they don't, then its up to the employer to discipline the employee. This would be very, very easy for DCL to monitor through their guest surveys. Those employees who don't do well need to be addressed in some manner. Perhaps demoted?

I would prefer that tips be included in the cost of the cruise and that the servers get fair wages. I would prefer that the good service I am getting is sincere and not given in order to get the "better" tip.

I understand that this is industry standard, but I personally think its time that the industry changed. Good workers should get promoted, and get bonuses, and lousy ones don't. Its up to DCL to decide based on feedback and not for great servers to get stiffed because some people don't want to "waste" their money on tips, or perhaps, feel the cruise is already too expensive. Its not fair to those hardworking people! The cruise industry always wins out in the end, because they can promote cheaper prices to entice more customers, but don't have to pay their workers.

Just my two cents.

 

[shushh]

I always do my best at my job, always, and I don't get tips. Why do we assume that everyone will do a lousy job if they don't get tipped? Those of you who don't work in the service industry, do you do the bare minimum at work because you don't get a tip? Let's not assume that those who do service work only go the extra mile because they'll get a better tip and not because they don't take pride in their work.

I assume everyone will try to do their very best at their job, and if they don't, then its up to the employer to discipline the employee. This would be very, very easy for DCL to monitor through their guest surveys. Those employees who don't do well need to be addressed in some manner. Perhaps demoted?

I would prefer that tips be included in the cost of the cruise and that the servers get fair wages. I would prefer that the good service I am getting is sincere and not given in order to get the "better" tip.

I understand that this is industry standard, but I personally think its time that the industry changed. Good workers should get promoted, and get bonuses, and lousy ones don't. Its up to DCL to decide based on feedback and not for great servers to get stiffed because some people don't want to "waste" their money on tips, or perhaps, feel the cruise is already too expensive. Its not fair to those hardworking people! The cruise industry always wins out in the end, because they can promote cheaper prices to entice more customers, but don't have to pay their workers.

Just my two cents.

Very well put 2 cents!

 

[PearlySwan]

Has anyone used this cruise tips calculator? http://cruisetip.tpkeller.com/

On a Disney Cruise:

Dining Room Server $4/pp/day
Assistant Server $3/pp/day
Head Server $1/pp/day
Stateroom Host/Hostess $4/pp/day

For a family of 4 this translates to a TOTAL of $12/pp/day for all servers' tips. Tipping a total of $12 per person per day doesn't seem all that outrageous to me. I'm certain we've all left much bigger tips than $12 on a single dinner to a single server at the Cheesecake Factory, or some other restaurant chain out there.

I wouldn't support having tips automatically built into the cruise price for the simple reason that just might decrease the quality of service. When you know your performance will dictate your paycheck, you'll want to do your job really really well. Yes, what another poster said earlier is true. The main dining room servers on DCL get paid next to nothing from DCL. Their true income is passenger tips. Unless you feel your servers didn't do a good job, don't stiff them. They worked for you and your family throughout your cruise. Give them a paycheck.

Getting back to the main topic of this thread. No. I don't think the third dining option you suggested would take care of the people who complain about tipping. They'll find some other thing to complain about.

 

[bigAWL]

I like to look at numbers.

If tipping the serving crew in the dining rooms is really about tipping them for all the service they provide at different places for three meals (and this is just about those three people, since a PP said he was told be a CM that they are the only ones not working practically only for tips), then I thought it might be useful for some to break this down into what they might pay in tips for each meal during the typical day on board.

The recommended tips for my family of five is $40 per day for these three servers (4+3+1 * 5). During a typical day at WDW, if we were to eat at a buffet for breakfast and lunch and then a nice table service place for dinner, I might expect the buffet meals to cost about half what the TS meal does at a nice restaurant. If I applied the regular suggested tip amounts to those meals (10% for a buffet and 15% for a TS), we might see costs in this neighborhood:

Breakfast Buffet$....$80 bill, $8 tip
Lunch Buffet:.........$80 bill, $8 tip
Dinner Restaurant:..$160 bill, $24 tip

Those tips total $40, conveniently exactly what DCL suggests I tip (it took me hours to get those numbers just right).

Those look pretty resonable to me for the high level of service I expect to get on the cruise. Certainly worth increasing for great service. I would certainly encourage people not to skip an entire day's tips because they didn't eat in the main dining room. But I can't say I would fault someone for reducing that to say $24 for the day that they ate at the buffet for dinner instead of the main dining room. That's $8 each meal, and representative of the level of service received.

Does that cheat the servers? Maybe it does - after all, they were there in the dining room working hard. But really if my family of five isn't there, then they worked that much less. Did it cost them the opportunity to earn more because no one could fill your table? Sure. But then the $8 I did include should help a little.

Many people are saying if you can't afford to tip, then you can't afford to cruise. You might also think that if the servers can't afford to miss a tip, then they might want to look for a salaried position.

 

[tvguy]

I always do my best at my job, always, and I don't get tips. Why do we assume that everyone will do a lousy job if they don't get tipped? Those of you who don't work in the service industry, do you do the bare minimum at work because you don't get a tip? Let's not assume that those who do service work only go the extra mile because they'll get a better tip and not because they don't take pride in their work.

I assume everyone will try to do their very best at their job, and if they don't, then its up to the employer to discipline the employee. This would be very, very easy for DCL to monitor through their guest surveys. Those employees who don't do well need to be addressed in some manner. Perhaps demoted?

I would prefer that tips be included in the cost of the cruise and that the servers get fair wages. I would prefer that the good service I am getting is sincere and not given in order to get the "better" tip.

I understand that this is industry standard, but I personally think its time that the industry changed. Good workers should get promoted, and get bonuses, and lousy ones don't. Its up to DCL to decide based on feedback and not for great servers to get stiffed because some people don't want to "waste" their money on tips, or perhaps, feel the cruise is already too expensive. Its not fair to those hardworking people! The cruise industry always wins out in the end, because they can promote cheaper prices to entice more customers, but don't have to pay their workers.

Just my two cents.

Valid opinion, but in my experience, based on 8 cruises, 1 where tips were prohibits, 1 with automatic tips, and 6 with tipping at your descretion, the last option always produced the best service. No tipped allowed was a close second, but that was on a French cruise ship, and the fare was through the roof.

 

[NewDCLGuy]

These passengers would still get room service, could dine at to topsiders / beach blanket buffett, pluto’s, Cookies barbecue, that pizza place by the Goofy pool, Palo’s (for the same additional fee as others) and dine onshore in port.

How do you expect the room service / topsiders / buffet / barbecue / etc. workers to get paid?

The solution is much simpler. The cruise lines should pay their employees a decent wage, raise rates a bit, and get rid of tipping.

EDIT - Just reading the posts from folks who think tips are required in order for employees to provide good service... any of you people ever been to a place called Walt Disney World? Outstanding service from (most of) the CM's; no tipping required. It's all in hiring the right people and training them well.

 

[JTN2005]

We took our first Disney Cruise last year on the Magic. The service the entire week was outstanding. I also work in the service industry, so maybe I am a little more picky when it comes to tipping. Our service was so great, we tipped above what Disney suggested. If the service had not been good I am sure I would have tipped less. I guess it comes down to a personal preference, but in general I have always tipped well and have generally received very good service.

 

[AKMOUSE]

I really liked what BigAWL said.
But, here is my two cents (no tip necessary )
A tip is for going above and beyond is at the discretion of those providing the tip.

As a customer, we shouldn't be worried about how much money the server is making from the paying company (I.E. Disney, Carnival, etc..., but simply reward them for their hardwork with the international language of $$$

Also, I do not care for the idea of 'pre-tipping' or putting it automatically on my credit card. Instead, I like to acknowledge the hard work and leave the tip for the person instead of hoping they get it and realize I acknowledged them or think I stiffed them.

Which do you prefer tipping anonymously or with cash??

 

[jilljill]

I do not care for the idea of 'pre-tipping' or putting it automatically on my credit card. Instead, I like to acknowledge the hard work and leave the tip for the person instead of hoping they get it and realize I acknowledged them or think I stiffed them.

Which do you prefer tipping anonymously or with cash??

On DCL when you pre-pay your tips, either before boarding or while on the ship, you will be given vouchers that you hand to your servers/stateroom host. We do this route with the suggested tips and if we feel it's warranted we'll add additional cash to the envelope.

 

[NewDCLGuy]

As a customer, we shouldn't be worried about how much money the server is making from the paying company (I.E. Disney, Carnival, etc..., but simply reward them for their hardwork with the international language of $$$

We *shouldn't* have to, but we do. Unfortunately, that's the way the system works. Tips aren't just a reward, it's the staff's primary income. We can't ignore it.

Also, I do not care for the idea of 'pre-tipping' or putting it automatically on my credit card. Instead, I like to acknowledge the hard work and leave the tip for the person instead of hoping they get it and realize I acknowledged them or think I stiffed them.

If you pretip, it isn't anonymous. You get vouchers to give to the staff, along with any extra cash you feel is deserved.

 

[tvguy]

We *shouldn't* have to, but we do. Unfortunately, that's the way the system works. Tips aren't just a reward, it's the staff's primary income. We can't ignore it.
.

I agree the system is the pits, but it's still around because it is the system that works best overall.

 

[bigAWL]

As far as doing away with tipping altogether, is it useful to point out that Palo servers are not a tipped position? Do you think the service there would noticeably improve if they were changed to tipped?

"Mmmmmm... you might, Rabbit. You might."

Personally, I think their service is already above that of the tipped servers in the main dining rooms. Presumably, they are there because they are the best servers. Presumably, they keep performing at a high level because they want to keep their jobs (or hopefully also because they like what they do). I don't imagine removing their salary and adding tips would help very much. In fact I can think in some cases it may hurt - adding a level of stress to the job that could negatively affect performance and job satisfaction.

I don't doubt that people have had worse service on cruises that had automatic or no tipping. But there could be other factors in this. Is it possible that the total earnings in those cases actually averaged less than on the cruise with tips (a lot of cruisers are very generous with tips when allowed to be). This could be guarded against by making sure the wage (plus automatic tip if applicable) is high enough to attract the best people.

Hypothetically, if Disney were to go the route of automatic tipping or no tipping (and I don't think they will), I think I'd prefer they choose no tipping, simply pay the servers a fair wage, and wrap that into the cost of my cruise. When you call it an automatic tip, then I feel unempowered, and that it's just another add-on fee that is "nickel and diming" me above the advertised cruise rate. When you wrap it into the advertised cruise rate, then I feel pampered (one step closer to all-inclusive). Silly, I guess, but that's me.

 

[Dicecatt]

As far as doing away with tipping altogether, is it useful to point out that Palo servers are not a tipped position? Do you think the service there would noticeably improve if they were changed to tipped?

"Mmmmmm... you might, Rabbit. You might."

Personally, I think their service is already above that of the tipped servers in the main dining rooms. Presumably, they are there because they are the best servers. Presumably, they keep performing at a high level because they want to keep their jobs (or hopefully also because they like what they do). I don't imagine removing their salary and adding tips would help very much. In fact I can think in some cases it may hurt - adding a level of stress to the job that could negatively affect performance and job satisfaction.

I don't doubt that people have had worse service on cruises that had automatic or no tipping. But there could be other factors in this. Is it possible that the total earnings in those cases actually averaged less than on the cruise with tips (a lot of cruisers are very generous with tips when allowed to be). This could be guarded against by making sure the wage (plus automatic tip if applicable) is high enough to attract the best people.

Hypothetically, if Disney were to go the route of automatic tipping or no tipping (and I don't think they will), I think I'd prefer they choose no tipping, simply pay the servers a fair wage, and wrap that into the cost of my cruise. When you call it an automatic tip, then I feel unempowered, and that it's just another add-on fee that is "nickel and diming" me above the advertised cruise rate. When you wrap it into the advertised cruise rate, then I feel pampered (one step closer to all-inclusive). Silly, I guess, but that's me.

I've always tipped my Palo servers. There is a place on your charge slip for $15 pp and for any drinks you ordered for gratuity...I gave my last Palo server $40. I'm pretty sure they are tipped pretty well.

 

[bigAWL]

I've always tipped my Palo servers. There is a place on your charge slip for $15 pp and for any drinks you ordered for gratuity...I gave my last Palo server $40. I'm pretty sure they are tipped pretty well.

Ahhh. perhaps my mistake. Now that you mention it, I think I do recall that opportunity to tip after the meal. I remember trying to figure out what I might have paid for this kind of meal elsewhere, and then deciding how much was a good tip.

I was thinking only of the end of cruise tipping envelopes. Thanks for pointing that out. Ignore my previous post.

 

[Dicecatt]

Ahhh. perhaps my mistake. Now that you mention it, I think I do recall that opportunity to tip after the meal. I remember trying to figure out what I might have paid for this kind of meal elsewhere, and then deciding how much was a good tip.

I was thinking only of the end of cruise tipping envelopes. Thanks for pointing that out. Ignore my previous post.

I did the exact same thing...what would be the price of two filets plus a lobster macaroni for only 2 people, lol. It seemed like our server kept bringing out entrees!

 

[Maryrn11168]

Slightly off-topic:

To other families of 5 thinking of booking a cruise, we've never paid $13,000 even for a 15-night Panama Canal cruise! Nor have we ever paid more than $1,700 for airfare even during busy Spring Break. With the exception of our Panama Canal cruise, our family of 5 has cruised on two DCL 7 night cruises for less than $6,000 all-in including airfare, tips and excursions. We're going again in three weeks and it will be even lower in total cost, but it's also a 4-night with a couple of days at WDW added.
.

I know it is off topic , but it can cost more than this poster thinks!!

Here is my Jet Blue info: as you can see total cost:
Departing Flight #149JFKMCO3/27 7:55AM3/27 11:00AMReturning Flight #154MCOJFK4/3 12:50PM4/3 3:37PM
Fare: $760.93 x 5 = $3,804.65Taxes & Fees $392.35Total: $4,197.00

 

[Presentation]

I know it is off topic , but it can cost more than this poster thinks!!

Here is my Jet Blue info: as you can see total cost:
Departing Flight #149JFKMCO3/27 7:55AM3/27 11:00AMReturning Flight #154MCOJFK4/3 12:50PM4/3 3:37PM
Fare: $760.93 x 5 = $3,804.65Taxes & Fees $392.35Total: $4,197.00

Yes, you can book and pay that.

Another alternative is to look at multiple airports, multiple flight times. It may mean getting up at 1:00 AM to drive 4 hours to get to another airport and fly at a off-peak time.

I can grab the local airport at peak travel times for rates like you posted. I don’t. I drive to Milwaukee or Chicago and fly odd times for about $200 total per person.

 

[Presentation]

I know it is off topic , but it can cost more than this poster thinks!!

Here is my Jet Blue info: as you can see total cost:
Departing Flight #149JFKMCO3/27 7:55AM3/27 11:00AMReturning Flight #154MCOJFK4/3 12:50PM4/3 3:37PM
Fare: $760.93 x 5 = $3,804.65Taxes & Fees $392.35Total: $4,197.00

OK, I would keep looking but in like 10 seconds I found this....
$318 + $41 taxes + fees = $359 per person

Sat, Mar 27: Depart 12:30PM
Arrive 05:38PM
Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, PA (ABE)
Orlando International Airport, FL (MCO) Delta Air Lines - 1 Stop
Flight 4123 / 2422
Operated by: PINNACLE DBA DELTA CONNECTION
Sat, Apr 3: Depart 05:15PM
Arrive 09:36PM
Orlando International Airport, FL (MCO)
Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, PA (ABE) US Airways - 1 Stop
Flight 1776 / 2668
Operated by: US AIRWAYS EXPRESS-MESA AIRLINES