How money changes people

[sk!mom]

And she also posted this:
I don't understand how he doesn't send "that much" and "he just gives them a little extra money to help out with a couple bills and live comfortably" suddenly turns into the parents not being able to stay in their home if he doesn't send the money.
In one post the OP makes it seem like the parents are in dire straits without his help, and in others she brushes it off like what he pays for is no big deal. (Live comfortably isn't the same as being in need of help to live).
It can't be both IMO, which is why I'm having a hard time figuring out what the actual story is.

This is the reason that I can't buy into the idea that the brother is being unfair. If it's truly a "small amount" of money then doing without it should be no problem. Small cutbacks or a small part time job should make up a "small amount" easily. Or the other siblings could take a share and cover a small amount.

I suspect that it isn't actually small at all. Whether it seems fair or not the brother may need to renegotiate the terms. I find it hard to believe that he generously offered to subsidize his parents retirement but has suddenly turned greedy. It's easier for me to believe that he now realizes that he may need the proceeds from his parents house.

 

[Colleen27]

I'll be entirely honest; my own family background makes me sympathetic to your brother's position. He made a number of large financial commitments in better economic conditions, and unless he's somehow insulated from every trend of the last 5 years he's probably not in as good a position to honor those commitments now as he was when he made them. So now the money he's spending to help your parents make ends meet is money he can't be putting into his own retirement or college savings to stabilize his long term outlook. My mother (who is distinctly NOT wealthy) made those same choices, reducing her retirement savings and sacrificing a healthy chunk of her disposable income to help my grandmother remain in her own home until her death, and then the economy tanked and destroyed her retirement savings just when she needed them. The fact that she did inherit the house has been absolutely essential to her ability to recover financially from the help she gave Grandma, but even after my mother paid (some of) the bills, cooked, cleaned, and by the end, pretty much moved in to be my grandmother's overnight caregiver, my aunt to this day isn't speaking to her over the "unfairness" of the will.

It isn't right for him to pressure your parents into changing their will or to use the money he's giving them as leverage, but have you considered that he might think this is a better route that admitting he needs to cut them off for the sake of his own financial well-being?

 

[bumbershoot]

Objectively, this looks like your brother is basically offering them a reverse mortgage at MUCH better rates than they'd get at any bank. It sounds like a great deal for your parents and they are lucky he can offer it to them.

But only if they NEED such a thing.

they also had a few personal things willed to my other brother and myself, which he wants changed too.

That would be the part I would have a problem with, IF he wants to change it so you don't get those personal items. If it's so they are out of the estate, as another poster thought of, then I get that. But if he's taking them away from you, ick.

Now if they need this help, and don't mind, they could always give you those things now, to hold on to. Then they could just tell the brother that it's a done deal, you guys have those things, too late for him.

Financial things between a parent and an adult child are private; but if the child is trying to take a *thing* that should belong to another sibling, that's when I don't think it should be private. In the years before my grandma died, things got tense between her 3 children, about the money the two sibs were sending vs what the sib taking care of grandma needed to help grandma, and to keep herself alive as well. She rejected many ideas that her siblings had, and it got borderline ugly sometimes (everything lightened once she finally agreed to elder daycare for grandma so she could get some time to breathe). BUT once grandma died, all the *things* were distributed exactly as grandma wanted. The financial ugliness didn't cause anyone to destroy relationships by taking the things their mom wanted to go to another sibling or grandchild etc.

So let the parents do what they want, but don't let your brother take the *stuff* your parents want you and the other sibling to have.

 

[angwill]

I don't know if money really changes a person, or if having it just allows a persons lesser character traits come to the forefront.

Too bad your brother didn't make this a deal with your parents before they retired. It doesn't seem fair to throw it at them now. They should have a choice.

As far as the items of more sentimental value....that's just a jerk on his part.

Could your parents make a new will they he wants, then revise it and just not tell him?

I agree with suggesting the last part to your parents. They can talk to an attorney and tell them what is going on and inquire how to make one to satisfy your brother and another that he won't know about but it being the true will. I don't like sneakiness but it was your brother who told your parents not to tell you and your other brother. Other than making that suggestion there is not much you can do but accept the situation.

I found myself in a similar situation years back with an aunt who convinced my mother to turn over all she had to her upon death. I was livid at first and eventually I realized I really didn't count on that money anyway and it is what it is. Your anger will only hurt you and not your brother or parents unless you pressure them more on your end.

 

[robsmom]

It is not necessarily unreasonable for you brother to get back the money that he is paying your parents. It is a bit unethical of him to wait until now to discuss it, as the details should have been worked out before they retired. Speaking purely from a financial point of view, the fair thing would be to write it into the will that the money is a loan. He gets payed back his money before any assets are distributed and then everything is split 3 ways. So for example: If the last parent dies and the house and anything they have is worth a total of $250K. Let's say that over the years your brother has given them $100k. This means that he gets 100K and then there is 150K to be shared with 50K going to each of you. So he ends up with 150K and you and your other brother each get 50K. The personal items should be split however you parents want as long as they are not of significant financial value. This solution does not necessarily address fairness as far as who provides care or visits, but really most wills don't deal with those issues.

 

[ilovemk76]

It is not necessarily unreasonable for you brother to get back the money that he is paying your parents. It is a bit unethical of him to wait until now to discuss it, as the details should have been worked out before they retired. Speaking purely from a financial point of view, the fair thing would be to write it into the will that the money is a loan. He gets payed back his money before any assets are distributed and then everything is split 3 ways. So for example: If the last parent dies and the house and anything they have is worth a total of $250K. Let's say that over the years your brother has given them $100k. This means that he gets 100K and then there is 150K to be shared with 50K going to each of you. So he ends up with 150K and you and your other brother each get 50K. The personal items should be split however you parents want as long as they are not of significant financial value. This solution does not necessarily address fairness as far as who provides care or visits, but really most wills don't deal with those issues.

How do we know what the brother and parents discussed?

 

[Tink2Day]

I'll admit I didn't read all of the posts, it makes me too irritated.
If they're over 62 tell them to get a reverse mortgage, If they're under 70 tell them to get a job, if their health allows.

My advice, don't let his 'loan' act like a reverse mortgage because by the time they pass the housing market will probaby rebound and it will be worth far more than he gave them, the rest of the siblings will begrudge him. Leave the family part out of it.
I pretty well guarantee if he's pulling this stunt after the fact, that it won't be the end of it.
What if he then changes his mind and decides to sell the house out from under them, not farfetched with what he's shown.

They can then tell your brother whatever he's given them to date they'll take off his life tab. They paid for a lot for all of you when you were growing up if they're like the rest of us parents. I assume they gave you more than the bare necessities?
We OWE our parents, IMHO.

Sounds like him wanting the stuff you all want is more issues with you all and greed.

 

[beansmom]

They can then tell your brother whatever he's given them to date they'll take off his life tab. They paid for a lot for all of you when you were growing up if they're like the rest of us parents. I assume they gave you more than the bare necessities?
We OWE our parents, IMHO.

TINK,

some days you do wanna present kids with the bill, eh?

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

A similar situation in my family, but with a happier result:

My Uncle graduated from medical school, and urged my grandparents to retire and sell their house to move in with him.

They did, and he took care of them until they passed away.

My mother and her brothers all decided that leftover money from the sale of the house would go to the uncle who took care of them financially in their final years.

I do think your brother is entitled to the house, but it really does make a difference when that conclusion is reached by all parties. He should contact both you and your brother and let you all come to a final decision on what you would like to do as a group. It will prevent a bitter future for the family.

 

[*pixie*dust*]

OP, I mean no disrespect, but it sounds like your parents are being very immature. They didn't prepare for retirement but retired early when someone else was going to pay for it. And honestly, it sounds like there was much more to the conversation with them and your brother than what your parents are letting on. But instead of your parents working things out with your brother directly, they are dragging the rest of you into the problems because they don't like the terms of the arraingement.

Bottom line -- they didn't prepare for retirement, they made this decision to retire anyone and rely on someone else to support them. If they want to change it they know what they need to do-- sell the house, go back to work and support themselves.

 

[Disney-Chick]

I haven't read all the posts so I may be repeating what may have already been said.

I read posts by others stating that your parents owe your brother the house or items etc. I don't feel this is the case. Your brother offered to support his parents so they could have a comfortable life. How is their life being comfortable when your brother is adding stress that is not needed. I see this as a gift not a loan and does not require your parents to sign the house over to him. I feel your brother is feeling that they owe him. If he wanted certain items after their death they should have discussed this before they gave up their jobs.

I am sorry to hear your family is going through this because someone wants to be greedy. I would let your parents handle this as in the end it's their choice as to how to handle this. And im thinking they should have kept this to themselves and not shared this information with you and your other brother.

Hope it all works out for everyone.

 

[cm8]

I haven't read all the posts so I may be repeating what may have already been said.

I read posts by others stating that your parents owe your brother the house or items etc. I don't feel this is the case. Your brother offered to support his parents so they could have a comfortable life. How is their life being comfortable when your brother is adding stress that is not needed. I see this as a gift not a loan and does not require your parents to sign the house over to him. I feel your brother is feeling that they owe him. If he wanted certain items after their death they should have discussed this before they gave up their jobs.

I am sorry to hear your family is going through this because someone wants to be greedy. I would let your parents handle this as in the end it's their choice as to how to handle this. And im thinking they should have kept this to themselves and not shared this information with you and your other brother.

Hope it all works out for everyone.

I agree!!! This is so sad