How many people buy resale?

[disneynutz]

According to Disney 50% of their direct sales are first time buyers and it's safe to say that most are impulse buyers who really don't know what they are buying or anything about resale. Many are on a dream vacation at Disney and DVD marketing kicks in and they end up buying before they go home.

Disney has a certain tipping point and If Disney feels that resales are hurting direct sales I am sure that they will take additional steps to push buyers to direct.

Bill

 

[DougEMG]

According to Disney 50% of their direct sales are first time buyers and it's safe to say that most are impulse buyers who really don't know what they are buying or anything about resale. Many are on a dream vacation at Disney and DVD marketing kicks in and they end up buying before they go home.

Disney has a certain tipping point and If Disney feels that resales are hurting direct sales I am sure that they will take additional steps to push buyers to direct.

Bill

I don't think they can do anything to resale restrictions to push that group of buyers to buy direct. Their better strategy would be to close the deal with more first time (uninformed buyers) buyers buying direct by offering them perks (free park passes for a X number of years, etc). As soon as they tell prospective buyers that resale contract can't do X Y and Z, the prospective buyer is suddenly made aware that there is a resale market, one they probably never even knew about. That's probably enough to make some people walk away to do more research.

 

[disneynutz]

I don't think they can do anything to resale restrictions to push that group of buyers to buy direct. Their better strategy would be to close the deal with more first time (uninformed buyers) buyers buying direct by offering them perks (free park passes for a X number of years, etc). As soon as they tell prospective buyers that resale contract can't do X Y and Z, the prospective buyer is suddenly made aware that there is a resale market, one they probably never even knew about. That's probably enough to make some people walk away to do more research.

You may be right but Disney only offers sales perks when they need to and they know how to market very effectively. Disney's brand is so strong that many buy direct just because Disney told them to. How many times here on the DIS do we see posts where buyers buy from Disney even after 20 people suggest that they should buy resale.

I was told by a Guide that they don't bring up the sales restriction benefit unless the buyer mentions resale first.

Bill

 

[mikron]

We own 5 memberships through Disney and 2 on resale. Only reason we bought 5 from Disney was the price. With all discounts for SSR under construction points were as cheap as resales at other resorts.

 

[Disjunky]

What is the best resale place. Safety wise and trustworthy.

 

[jocin3]

We purchased our first contract through The Timeshare Store (see banner at top of this page) last year-smooth transaction and we were very pleased.

We are now in the process of purchasing our second contract through them as well and are awaiting ROFR. I would highly recommend them, not just from my experience but also from others I have read on this board.

 

[Msmithmd]

What is the best resale place. Safety wise and trustworthy.

Any of the four major brokers are reputable, or else they would not be the four major brokers. The Internet has reduced the opportunity for businesses with national reach such as these to be scams. You do see the occasional post about a scam from some company that no one has ever heard of, but not from any of the main companies.

As to price, some have commented on these boards that TTS discourages lower offers more aggressively than the others. But I have no personal experience there, just echoing what others have reported. But certainly most of their customers seem very happy with their service level as you work through closing.

And remember the brokers are just that- they will suggest prices to the sellers, but you will see crazy stuff both on the high side and the low side of pricing. Be sure to understand that the listing price on brokers websites is asking price, just like when buying a house it is flexible in most cases. Depends on what the individual sellers bottom line is. Some have loans that they must pay off, this is probably the reason you see individual contract prices on some broker websites that are ridiculously over market price, as reflected by other same resort/same size contract listings.


I'd suggest you first figure out what resort you want for home. Then figure out how many points you need based on expected average usage. Then add a small cushion, 5-10% for possible reallocations. Only THEN should you look at the websites from ALL major resale brokers and find what fits your needs. Don't let the brokerage name sway you toward or away from the contract that is right for you.

 

[Dean]

I still believe that Disney is shooting itself in the foot with resale restrictions.

It seems that more people bought direct before the resale restrictions came into play and lowered the value of resales. I believe that more people would prefer to buy from Disney if the price discrepancy were not so great. I know I would prefer to deal directly with Disney for a reasonable price difference. It would also be nice to know that my "investment" would not be worth half the minute I signed on the dotted line. It is nice to know that there is a reasonable after market for your contract. Right now, it is only reasonable if you buy resale!!!

The current differences aren't enough to force most to buy DVC but there certainly are differences that would push many people to retail. DVC has also been too soft on sales tours as well as lax about getting those in to tour that rent, trade in or stay on cash.

This.

We have ownerships with other timeshares and when there were restrictions placed many owners defaulted. mf went through the roof and letter was sent justifying that is was due to the number of increasing members defaulting. mf continue to go up and are now more than double what i paid originally. domino effect. moral of the story, restrictions hurt everyone. period.

Used appropriately restrictions can help sales. While the current DVC setup doesn't really restrict a resale buyer nor does buying retail add any real benefits, this isn't the case for other companies. Certainly for Bluegreen and Wyndham, there are definite reasons and benefits buying retail. They're still not worth the dollar difference (which is much greater than DVC % wise). For Marriott being resale doesn't remove any real options compared to where it was before based on usage though it does significantly restrict future options that were added on to the points options.

There's really not much about this issue that should affect maint fees though, that's a separate area and a separate legal company in most situations. I don't think one can make the case that resale restrictions affected fees directly. Maybe indirectly with resorts still in active sales but that's about it from what I can think of right now.

I don't think they can do anything to resale restrictions to push that group of buyers to buy direct. Their better strategy would be to close the deal with more first time (uninformed buyers) buyers buying direct by offering them perks (free park passes for a X number of years, etc). As soon as they tell prospective buyers that resale contract can't do X Y and Z, the prospective buyer is suddenly made aware that there is a resale market, one they probably never even knew about. That's probably enough to make some people walk away to do more research.

There is a point where 100% of people who are interested in buying DVC would want to go resale if they could afford it. I doubt they even mention the resale restrictions unless it come up.

My assumptions are:
(1) that all owners of a resort have to be treated the same for booking at their home resort and
(2) that non-home resort owners will not have any booking advantage over home resort owner.

I'd go a little further and assume that all reservation windows for home and non home resorts will be the same and that exchange options will exist. From a value standpoint, most all they can do to to distinguish between the 2 is add nickel and dime costs to resale buyers and remove those plus add other peripheral options to retail buyers likely with a VIP type program. Plus play with peripheral options like transfers and points usage for a host of other things like paying dues, tickets and current cash type exchange options.

 

[radmcg]

Another thumbs up for The TTS. Kind of funny. While I was reading this thread a person came in the office and told me he had bought DVC. When I ask where he said BLT. I mentioned resale and he didn't even know he could do that. He was at the tour and bought on the spot. Didn't have the heart to mention the differences. He was very happy and sure he will enjoy his vacations for years to come.

 

[BestDadEver]

Most people buy direct . Most people that post here say to but resale . But even most of them have some direct points .

There was a poll done here , and I was shocked to see most were direct points people had . I have no intrest to look for the threads but there was three threads one for how many resle points you bought , one for direct , and one for both . It was a landslide for direct points.

I myself see value in the direct points so that is what I bought and will add with . Most active posters are for resale, probably cause any time some says anything positive about direct points they get flamed , and dont come back . I myself try not to come on this forum for that reason sometimes.

 

[BestDadEver]

]

I Instead what it accomplished is lowering the prices of resale contracts, making them more attractive to a subset of the buying population. Over time, DVD is sure to figure out what restrictions would push a critical mass of buyers from resale towards direct, so I would anticipate another round of restrictions at least.

That is very an interesting point. I would agree with . Its not much a deturent to by resale. Although it was for me .

I would also agree that they can't legally do it to previous resale owners . Much like the recent changes only affect future contacts .

The other thing I have seen mentioned here , that makes sence is that disney realy doesn't want to devalue the resale product . It does have value to them , even if not directly .
Example would be you wouldent buy a used car for 30k if out was only worth $10 a year later .

 

[disneynutz]

]



That is very an interesting point. I would agree with . Its not much a deturent to by resale. Although it was for me .

I would also agree that they can't legally do it to previous resale owners . Much like the recent changes only affect future contacts .

The other thing I have seen mentioned here , that makes sence is that disney realy doesn't want to devalue the resale product . It does have value to them , even if not directly .
Example would be you wouldent buy a used car for 30k if out was only worth $10 a year later .

You can't use the DIS or the internet as a gage of what most buyers do. The majority of Direct buyers don't visit the DIS or know about resale and if they do, Disney reminds them of the direct benefits as if someone else set them up.

Legally they can pretty much do what they want, when we signed the contract, we gave them that right. Disney weighs the PR angle against the sales benefit angle when they make these types of changes.

Disney doesn't talk about resale to buyers so I don't think that they care about what happens to resale prices other than if they decide to sell older resorts when new inventory runs low. Then they want to buy low through ROFR and sell high.

Bill

 

[BestDadEver]

My point was that disneys product is devalued if the resale goes down . No business wants their product to loose value .

Ferrari does this to an extream . They make you sign something saying you wont sell the car for x amount of time, also you can't but certine models without owning other . All that protects the value of there product .

Like Elcm said if they hammered resale perks the value would drop dramaticly . Then potential buyers would be detered to buy a product for thousands of dollers that will be worth pennies when they need/want to sell it.

The main reason I wouldn't buy a hyundai . Although I think the cars are much better quality they still loose more then half there value in a year. And a honda will only be half as much depreciation in the same time .

 

[Dean]

Most people buy direct . Most people that post here say to but resale . But even most of them have some direct points .

There was a poll done here , and I was shocked to see most were direct points people had . I have no intrest to look for the threads but there was three threads one for how many resle points you bought , one for direct , and one for both . It was a landslide for direct points.

I myself see value in the direct points so that is what I bought and will add with . Most active posters are for resale, probably cause any time some says anything positive about direct points they get flamed , and dont come back . I myself try not to come on this forum for that reason sometimes.

What most people do is irrelevant for a number of reasons. First, most who bought retail either did so without appropriate knowledge of the resale options and/or when the price difference wasn't make or break. Until the last couple of years or so, the price difference was generally in the 15-20% difference for most situations. I don't believe you've been flamed though I would take you to task on your views regarding retail vs retail because I find them significantly inaccurate and inappropriate for most people's situation. We're about to see a situation where buying retail may be reasonable for a subset of people (current and prospective members) because the GF will go on sale fairly soon. There will be those that have to own there and make the judgement that a higher price is worth the benefit. For those that will use those points for GF most of the time, that very well may be a reasonable validation for buying retail.

MOST timeshares are bought retail even for those you can buy for free on ebay or elsewhere. I've had friends and acquaintances buy retail for such timeshares even though I gave them the info so they were aware of the limitations and price differences. The salespeople are often pretty slick.

]



That is very an interesting point. I would agree with . Its not much a deturent to by resale. Although it was for me .

I would also agree that they can't legally do it to previous resale owners . Much like the recent changes only affect future contacts .

The other thing I have seen mentioned here , that makes sence is that disney realy doesn't want to devalue the resale product . It does have value to them , even if not directly .
Example would be you wouldent buy a used car for 30k if out was only worth $10 a year later .

Legally they could make such changes retroactively though it's unusual for timeshares to do so. I don't think DVC cares much about devaluing current owners holdings as the affect of future sales will be minimal to negligible. What it might do is drive them to further differentiation of the retail vs resale situation but given there are NO good reasons to buy retail over resale related to those differentiations, it really won't matter to the informed buyer. It might also cause them to be more aggressive in sales, I think we've seen some movement in that direction already over the past couple of years.

 

[xbrentx]

Remember, Disney has only devalued resales. Direct prices are actually going up this December.

As a business, this is smart, because they have ROFR. Now they can build waiting lists for sold out resorts, and pickup resales for 50% of the cost, and instantly resell them and make a huge profit. No overhead with that kind of profit margin is crazy to think about. Disney did not do it to bring incentive to direct sales, they purposely wanted to devalue resales so they can make bank of ROFR contracts.

If they wanted to bring real incentives to buy direct, they would make changes that would significantly impact resales. Like discounts on annual passes for the life of the contract on direct sales. Imagine saving an extra 10%-20% on annual passes a year, per person, for 40 years. Those types of long term savings would drive people to buy direct.

Buying direct is currently insanity from a cost/value perspective. SSR is $110 a point direct. I'm currently waiting for Disney's ROFR process on a 240 point SSR that I got for $57 a point. That's basically 50% of the cost. My family will not go on a cruise, and I already cruise with NCL. Adventures by Disney cost upwards of 800 points a person, so you would need a contract of 400-600 points a year to consider those anyway.

 

[Cruznmore]

Remember, Disney has only devalued resales. Direct prices are actually going up this December.

As a business, this is smart, because they have ROFR. Now they can build waiting lists for sold out resorts, and pickup resales for 50% of the cost, and instantly resell them and make a huge profit. No overhead with that kind of profit margin is crazy to think about. Disney did not do it to bring incentive to direct sales, they purposely wanted to devalue resales so they can make bank of ROFR contracts.

I disagree that the ROFR devalues the resale product. I think it actually keeps the resale values up. As a buyer, if you have looked at any of the historical data available here and elsewhere, you know if you go too low, Disney will snag it and you have wasted your time and effort.

As seller (again assuming you are at least informed about the value, which I'm assuming the Reseller agencies will help inform), you know the same. This keeps the offers in a narrow band that fluctuates some, but has a floor.

Many other timeshares you can pick up basically for closing costs and MF. That is because they don't have an active ROFR process. Disney helps keep value in the points because they do exercise the ROFR, or at least that the threat is there.

I think OKW is one to watch to see what happens. With Disney actively ROFRing deals, I would think that would drive prices and offers up. Any guesses as to which resort will be next on their list?

 

[DougEMG]

I disagree that the ROFR devalues the resale product. I think it actually keeps the resale values up. As a buyer, if you have looked at any of the historical data available here and elsewhere, you know if you go too low, Disney will snag it and you have wasted your time and effort.

As seller (again assuming you are at least informed about the value, which I'm assuming the Reseller agencies will help inform), you know the same. This keeps the offers in a narrow band that fluctuates some, but has a floor.

Many other timeshares you can pick up basically for closing costs and MF. That is because they don't have an active ROFR process. Disney helps keep value in the points because they do exercise the ROFR, or at least that the threat is there.

I think OKW is one to watch to see what happens. With Disney actively ROFRing deals, I would think that would drive prices and offers up. Any guesses as to which resort will be next on their list?

I'm not sure that ROFR has anything to do with keeping prices up. If you look at the numbers here http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2529191&page=14 on post 199, you'll see that other than OKW and BCV, there was practically no ROFR on any of the other resorts.

 

[Cruznmore]

you'll see that other than OKW and BCV, there was practically no ROFR on any of the other resorts.

True, but the threat of ROFR eliminates 'crazy eddie' deals. I'm sure if any of the resorts had a deal sub-$40 they would grab it. There definitely won't be any $1 deals like you find for other timeshares on Ebay.

 

[xbrentx]

I agree with you, I may have explained myself poorly. The ROFR process does also help Disney keep value in their product. If it wasn't for the ROFR then the prices would be rock bottom.

My point was that Disney has created a difference between direct and resale, by removing some benefits if you choose to buy resale. This creates a small decrease in value for the resale market. If they were the same product then the resale prices would be very close to direct prices. Disney simply wanted to create room for profit by executing their ROFR. Also, my point was that the lost benefits were not implemented to convince people to buy direct, but a business decision to devalue resales, creating that room for profit with ROFR.

 

[ELMC]

I agree with you, I may have explained myself poorly. The ROFR process does also help Disney keep value in their product. If it wasn't for the ROFR then the prices would be rock bottom.

My point was that Disney has created a difference between direct and resale, by removing some benefits if you choose to buy resale. This creates a small decrease in value for the resale market. If they were the same product then the resale prices would be very close to direct prices. Disney simply wanted to create room for profit by executing their ROFR. Also, my point was that the lost benefits were not implemented to convince people to buy direct, but a business decision to devalue resales, creating that room for profit with ROFR.

I think that your assertion that DVD implemented restrictions on resale in order to capitalize on ROFR contracts as a profit center is sheer speculation and not supported by the facts. If this were the case, then ROFR activity across all resorts would be much higher. The fact of the matter is that the majority of contracts DO pass ROFR. DVD continues to focus on selling the currently marketed resorts. That is their profit center and that is what "guides" push prospective buyers towards.

The direct market and the resale market function relatively independent of each other. The direct market is based on DVD's pricing schedule and their astronomical built in price increases. The resale market functions on the laws of supply and demand. This would explain why BLT prices have been dropping recently despite significant increases in direct prices.