How is FP+ making other lines longer?

[DPCummerbund]

It's really hard to draw conclusions here because demographics no doubt play a large role. I don't pretend that what I am hearing is universal, but most of the reports and feedback I am getting from recent first time returnees is that they don't understand what my family sees in WDW and that they are never going back. (And this has nothing to do with FP+. It is a result of the overall experience). The consistent complaint is crowding, wait times and price paid for value received. These are upper, upper-middle class people who have no problem paying $500 per night for a hotel room or villa. But when they pay that much, they expect a Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, Phoenician, Aspen, type of vacation and waiting 90 minutes for Soarin' isn't grabbing them. I can't really tell you the last time I heard a first timer tell me that they were hooked and would become annual regulars or anything close to it. This is the demographic that Disney is doing the worst at capturing, IMO. But again, the sample size of people who share their experiences with me is miniscule, albeit consistent.

I would guess that's the sort of feedback Disney has been getting from first time guests for some time. I also think it's possible that Disney put FP+ in as their "fix" to that problem. I wonder how many first time guests expressed exasperation over the line to TSMM being so long? Good thing they have now "fixed" it.

You both make some very good points. One of the key reasons for implementing FP+ in the first place is to gather more guest information. In many ways, it's impossible to judge the FP+ system until Disney has time to gather a lot of information, analyze it, and start using it to improve the guests' theme park experience and increase revenue.

It's possible that FP+ could be a flub - but I think we just don't know yet.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

You both make some very good points. One of the key reasons for implementing FP+ in the first place is to gather more guest information. In many ways, it's impossible to judge the FP+ system until Disney has time to gather a lot of information, analyze it, and start using it to improve the guests' theme park experience and increase revenue.

It's possible that FP+ could be a flub - but I think we just don't know yet.

This is true. More than anything about SB lines or number of attractions per day...the money spent on FP+ is all about studying the visitors activity. They will be able to see what some people do...profile them based on new visitor or frequent guest, etc.

Maybe they'll find out "hey, we need more seated-shows to pull people away from lines during busy times". Or maybe they will find "no one care about the country bears". etc.

From there they can ACTUALLY improve different guests' experiences using data, instead of guessing at it.

 

[mom2rtk]

This is true. More than anything about SB lines or number of attractions per day...the money spent on FP+ is all about studying the visitors activity. They will be able to see what some people do...profile them based on new visitor or frequent guest, etc.

Maybe they'll find out "hey, we need more seated-shows to pull people away from lines during busy times". Or maybe they will find "no one care about the country bears". etc.

From there they can ACTUALLY improve different guests' experiences using data, instead of guessing at it.

You mean it's possible the spent $1B plus to find out they needed to spend $1B on more attractions in the parks?

I would have told them that for $500K.

 

[over50visits]

We know that Disney wants first timers AND repeat visitors.

Perhaps more importantly, they want first timers to BECOME repeat visitors.

Almost everyone in the world has heard of Walt Disney World. Almost everyone likes the idea of coming to Walt Disney World. However, many people have reasons / objections to choosing WDW as their vacation. Disney undoubtedly does a lot of research into why people choose to go elsewhere. I would not be surprised if "long lines" is one of those reasons.

Reports in this thread (and other places) are stating that newbies and infrequent visitors are loving FP+. Some of these people probably planned their current trip as a "once in a lifetime" event, just something to take their kids to see once, and are now discovering that they really ENJOY it, and want to come back.They're having more fun than they thought they would, FP+ means that they're guaranteed 3 headline rides with short/nonexistent lines, etc.

Turning first-time visitors into repeat guests is, for Disney, the best thing in the world.

We don't <know> these things; we suspect, believe, or accept, but I know of no Disney public position on these things that we "know" they want.

Most people in the world have not heard of Disney World. Many of us (myself included) consider it a large part of our lives, and we plan frequent visits there, but we are in a significant minority.

The best thing for Disney is not related to first time visitors. The best thing, assuming their goal is maximizing revenue, is to fill their parks to capacity and have customers spend significant funds on extras (store purchases, tours, food, photos, etc.) How they achieve this best thing may or may not be increasing the population of repeat guests; I could argue just the opposite.

I must have missed the "reports" that newbies are "loving" FP+. I have been to WDW three times in as many months, and consistently have observed, listened to, and helped new visitors who are very frustrated with the system, do not like to feel like they are constantly working a phone app rather than enjoying the park, see long lines at almost EVERY attraction, and have to stand line at a FP+ kiosk for a long time. I've seen it. There may be some who are "loving" it, but there are also a visible number who are frustrated by it.

I'm not depending on reports, I am using my three visits. Lines that never in decades were long are now long, and now many have to stand in line and get help from a CM just to get a pass to stand in line somewhere else.

The FP+ system worked as advertised for us; we picked 3 rides (only 1 was one we wanted) ahead of time, the magic bands worked well at the FP+ entry points. However, those are the only rides we did ride, because ALL of the others had what we considered long waits, and we did not come to stand in line (did you know Disney designates 30 minutes as a SHORT wait!!!). But my heart went out to people who don't get to visit nearly as often as we do, who plan for a significant family vacation, and spend 4-5 hours of their 12 hour day at the park standing in line. Standing in line. When in the past there would have been several non-headliner rides they could have experienced with little or no wait (HM, PoTC, SW, LWTL.....) in addition to some great ride they could have gotten 2 FP-s for. No more. Their loss is real, and if it quacks like a duck it is a duck. If the significant difference is FP+, then.....duh.

 

[clsteve]

This is true. More than anything about SB lines or number of attractions per day...the money spent on FP+ is all about studying the visitors activity. They will be able to see what some people do...profile them based on new visitor or frequent guest, etc.

Maybe they'll find out "hey, we need more seated-shows to pull people away from lines during busy times". Or maybe they will find "no one care about the country bears". etc.

From there they can ACTUALLY improve different guests' experiences using data, instead of guessing at it.

Hence, the issue.

I don't think there's another corporation in the world that could get away with having their customer base pay to participate in this (lengthy) experiment.

What an amazing amount of customer loyalty and brand recognition. No matter which way this goes- really well, really bad, or - they'll be studying this for years...