How Involved is your DS/DD in the College Search Process?

[golfgal]

Oh I'm sure the kid is outstanding and he undoubtedly has/will have a lot of great options. I was just making the point that we all "hear" things about this process that intentionally or not, are exaggerated, etc. We have to be careful about using these as a basis for generalizations.

My guess is the missing link in the translation was DH, having been married to the guy for 20 years our friend could have said that her son was going to be a bum on the beach and he translated that to going to MIT on a full ride scholarship .

 

[MelanieC]

Jr. year is definately not too early to start. My senior DD17 started taking her tests last year and narrowed down where she wanted to go. We ended up only visiting one school - half way across the country mind you and this was the only school she applied for. She is really excited to go in the fall. I definately think it's something the child must do, but I really think the parent needs to be there to help them and guide them. DD17 is really learning a lot through this whole process and these skills will help her in college.

Now.......if I could only get her to stop spending her paycheck on clothes and to start putting a nest egg away for college. She has a job plus babysits and she just took her $90 babysitting money and spent it on clothes (mind you she has WAY too many clothes and accessories). Then last night she called us from the mall with her friends and wanted us to pay for her to go out to dinner. Usually we say yes, but we decided it's time for us to stop this practice.

 

[allison443]

My guess is the missing link in the translation was DH, having been married to the guy for 20 years our friend could have said that her son was going to be a bum on the beach and he translated that to going to MIT on a full ride scholarship .

Another good example, because MIT gives only need based financial aid, not merit based, and no "full ride scholarships".

Maybe some of those other scholarships you have said you hear about, and everyone you know saying they get a lot in scholarships and don't pay full cost for college, might be exaggerated as well.

 

[golfgal]

Another good example, because MIT gives only need based financial aid, not merit based, and no "full ride scholarships".

Maybe some of those other scholarships you have said you hear about, and everyone you know saying they get a lot in scholarships and don't pay full cost for college, might be exaggerated as well.

I have seen the aid letters for people and awards, I KNOW they are not exaggerated. It seems to me that it is very common out east not to receive the school based aid/scholarships, etc. that we get around here -based on posts from other people here. Go online to any of the colleges (private) and all the information I am talking about is on their websites along with what it takes to qualify. DS17 just had a senior meeting for college applications, etc. and brought home 10 page, front/back so 20 pages full of local scholarships available-many of them are only $500 but add a few of those together and it is a big deal. Some of them are for $20K+ even.

http://www.csbsju.edu/admission/finaid/Scholarships.htm

http://www.smumn.edu/wUGTuitionFees_wUgCostsScholarshipOpps_scholarshipopportunities.aspx

http://www.cord.edu/Offices/Finaid/Types/scholarships1.php

http://www.stolaf.edu/admissions/financialaid/meritaid.html

Here is just a sampling of what is offered and a few of the private schools around here.

 

[golfgal]

Ok, I figured out the confusion for the parents in college counting/not counting for number in college-for the actual application it asks number in household in college but if you look at the summary page for the form it says number in college (not including parents), so, make whatever you want out of that .

 

[bluesaturn]

Scholarships being offered by an university are only useful if you get one. And the value of a scholarship can only be considered when you compare it to the overall price of the university.

 

[golfgal]

Scholarships being offered by an university are only useful if you get one. And the value of a scholarship can only be considered when you compare it to the overall price of the university.

Well obviously but if you look at the scholarships I posted, they are automatic scholarships based simply on grades-renewable yearly. At St. Ben's the $16,000 is about 1/2 of the years costs so that is pretty substantial just for doing well in high school and walking through the door at that college, heck, you don't even have to apply for that one, you are automatically given that if you qualify based on your high school transcript--which is exactly what I have been saying all along. The aid given by the private schools far exceeds that of state schools and if you are a good student you can expect to pay little to nothing for college around here.

 

[tar heel]

There are plenty of private colleges here that pretty much automatically give good students big scholarships, but these schools are not nearly on the level of our top state and private schools. At the really good private schools here, you won't know what kind of scholarships you will get until long after application deadlines.

If you are a good student here, you might pay little or nothing at a so-so private school. How many good students want that when they could go to one of the best state universities in the country?

As far as golfgal's story about the National Merit Finalist goes . . . I'll go with the rest of you in saying that there's a lot of truth missing there, but I'll tell you one thing that is true. National Merit Finalists get free ride offers from schools they have not applied to based solely on the fact that they are finalists. When I look at a school's statistics that say they have x number of NM finalists, I take the information with a grain of salt.

 

[golfgal]

There are plenty of private colleges here that pretty much automatically give good students big scholarships, but these schools are not nearly on the level of our top state and private schools. At the really good private schools here, you won't know what kind of scholarships you will get until long after application deadlines.

If you are a good student here, you might pay little or nothing at a so-so private school. How many good students want that when they could go to one of the best state universities in the country?

As far as golfgal's story about the National Merit Finalist goes . . . I'll go with the rest of you in saying that there's a lot of truth missing there, but I'll tell you one thing that is true. National Merit Finalists get free ride offers from schools they have not applied to based solely on the fact that they are finalists. When I look at a school's statistics that say they have x number of NM finalists, I take the information with a grain of salt.

Well, that isn't the case in our state. The better schools give out more money to attract better students. Here is another example of private school aid at one of the best schools in the nation: http://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/afford/ . They don't offer merit scholarships but since the cost of school there is so high, most students show "need" which is another reason why private schools cost less for students because they qualify for more aid because of need.

Looking at what the fin aid statement we just submitted shows what our expected family contribution will be DS17 would pay less going to a private school then he will going to the state school by about $5000 but his grades wouldn't qualify him for the scholarships he is getting from the State school at the private school so that figure is closer to $1000 with the alumni scholarship he got. This is money we know he is getting for sure. If his grades were a little higher, he would be paying about $1000 to go to the private school too (based on for sure money)-not including any local scholarships he might get.

 

[tar heel]

The problem with a school providing all "demonstrated need" is that those of us with decent incomes and savings don't qualify for much. I'm not sure the rest of our family would be able to eat if we were contributing what the formulas say we can to their education. To use golfgirl's link to Carleton as an example . . . a family that makes $100,000 a year is supposed to pay $20,000 after the $30,000 in grants and loans. After taxes, insurance, a minimal 401K contribution, etc., someone who makes $100,000 a year is going to clear about $60,000. If 1/3 of that goes to one child's college expenses, that leaves just $40,000 per year for the rest of the family.

The need-based aid formulas are just as bad for state universities, of course, but because, in North Carolina, they cost well under $20,000, they are a cheaper option.

 

[bluesaturn]

Well obviously but if you look at the scholarships I posted, they are automatic scholarships based simply on grades-renewable yearly. At St. Ben's the $16,000 is about 1/2 of the years costs so that is pretty substantial just for doing well in high school and walking through the door at that college, heck, you don't even have to apply for that one, you are automatically given that if you qualify based on your high school transcript--which is exactly what I have been saying all along. The aid given by the private schools far exceeds that of state schools and if you are a good student you can expect to pay little to nothing for college around here.

Like I said, I applied to many private schools and did receive scholarships. Most private schools do tend to give out half tuition scholarships. But half tuition at the private school is still more expensive than the full tuition at the public. I don't doubt that private schools give out more aide, but I don't think that means anything if you are not brought under the public tuition amount. If it is enough to make it cheaper than public than it wonderful and definitely a better deal.

 

[bluesaturn]

Well, that isn't the case in our state. The better schools give out more money to attract better students. Here is another example of private school aid at one of the best schools in the nation: http://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/afford/ . They don't offer merit scholarships but since the cost of school there is so high, most students show "need" which is another reason why private schools cost less for students because they qualify for more aid because of need.

Looking at what the fin aid statement we just submitted shows what our expected family contribution will be DS17 would pay less going to a private school then he will going to the state school by about $5000 but his grades wouldn't qualify him for the scholarships he is getting from the State school at the private school so that figure is closer to $1000 with the alumni scholarship he got. This is money we know he is getting for sure. If his grades were a little higher, he would be paying about $1000 to go to the private school too (based on for sure money)-not including any local scholarships he might get.

In reference to your bolded quote, in my experience this is not true. I am on the East coast, and the better schools seemed to give out much less money. This may be due to geographic/regional differences, I'm not sure. Perhaps because so many people want to go to east coast schools anyway, they have less incentive to entice students?

 

[golfgal]

Like I said, I applied to many private schools and did receive scholarships. Most private schools do tend to give out half tuition scholarships. But half tuition at the private school is still more expensive than the full tuition at the public. I don't doubt that private schools give out more aide, but I don't think that means anything if you are not brought under the public tuition amount. If it is enough to make it cheaper than public than it wonderful and definitely a better deal.

Here the merit scholarships that you get put the private school tuition right at the same cost as the state schools and less than the University of MN, which is the whole point of giving out that money to the better students.

 

[mominwestlake]

OP here. This has been an interesting thread for me. DS is taking the SAT for the first time on Saturday and the ACT 2 weeks after that. Do you all agree that a lot of merit aid is tied to those 2 scores? I don't think he'll get a high score based on PSAT but at least we'll know in a few weeks. We did get signed up for our first college visit in April and also signed up for a pharmacy day at in-state school in march. It's a start!

Here's a question. We live in Ohio. DS is going to apply to the University of Pittsburgh. Do you think the school is more likely to give aid to a student who actually visits or does that not make any difference? Do schools want out of state students so they will give them aid to attend? Is there anyway to find this out before actually applying?

 

[golfgal]

OP here. This has been an interesting thread for me. DS is taking the SAT for the first time on Saturday and the ACT 2 weeks after that. Do you all agree that a lot of merit aid is tied to those 2 scores? I don't think he'll get a high score based on PSAT but at least we'll know in a few weeks. We did get signed up for our first college visit in April and also signed up for a pharmacy day at in-state school in march. It's a start!

Here's a question. We live in Ohio. DS is going to apply to the University of Pittsburgh. Do you think the school is more likely to give aid to a student who actually visits or does that not make any difference? Do schools want out of state students so they will give them aid to attend? Is there anyway to find this out before actually applying?

Merit aid is usually a combination of GPA and test scores but often it is more GPA. Visiting a school has no bearing what so ever on getting aid or not. Here is the Pitt Fin Aid blurb on their merit scholarship: http://www.oafa.pitt.edu/universityschlrs.aspx Basically they say that it is a combination of GPA and test scores and you are automatically registered for this if you complete your application paperwork on time, etc.

It looks like the Pharmacy program there is about $20,000/year. I hear their Pharm program is excellent. I have a friend who's DD got a full ride to Pitt for their Pharm program. She is a senior coming from MN. She is graduating #1 in her class from a well respected high school here.

--edit--as for finding out what is available before applying, yes, generally they can tell you that over the phone. They don't make any guarantees, obviously. If they want you bad enough they will give you an offer before you apply.

 

[erincon23]

I'm struggling now with my DD as a Sophmore.

She wants to go into theatre and I would like to at least start attending some college fairs so she even knows what is out there. I know it was up to us to figure what college, etc... out but I didn't even know of some of the possibilities. I'm especially wanting to find those local hidden colleges that you may not know exists.

I noticed that you're in the Chicago area -- we are too -- does your high school offer a trip to TheatreFest? If you're not familiar, it's a weekend program for Illlinois high school students involved in theatre at their schools. It was actually last weekend, so your daughter has missed it for this year, but has plenty of time to get her drama teacher involved if they aren't already for next year. It rotates between U of I and ISU. There are performances, workshops, etc. But the big thing for your daughter going into theatre is that she can audition for about 40 different schools, mostly in Illinois and Wisconsin. She signs up ahead of time, prepares either two monologues or a monologue and a song, and performs once. The school reps all see her performance, and if they are interested in her, can request a further contact. My DS17 did this last weekend, and 8 schools requested an interview. (None of them were big schools, and he's planning to go to college for instrumental music, so he didn't follow up, but could have possibly received some scholarships out of it if he had wantd to go into theatre.) PM me if you want more info!

Erin

 

[golfgal]

How is that forcing them into college? That was pretty much the deal with my parents when I grew up. IF you went to college you could stay home free/IF you didn't you paid rent.

They counted trade school as "going to college" too. For that matter, we had to pay for our own college tuition.

I think we did get the summer between Senior year/Fall of Freshman College time as free rent (I don't remember because I was taking college courses that summer).

I'm struggling now with my DD as a Sophmore.

She wants to go into theatre and I would like to at least start attending some college fairs so she even knows what is out there. I know it was up to us to figure what college, etc... out but I didn't even know of some of the possibilities. I'm especially wanting to find those local hidden colleges that you may not know exists. I found one in Iowa not too long. I found it purely by accident because they happen to have the Beverely Hillbillies truck on display there and DH had mentioned going to take a look at it, etc.. I was looking at that information, found the museum was on a college campus & I decided to see if they have any theatre programs there. I'm 99% sure we would have never heard of this college in general.

They have a HUGE college fair here in October and smaller ones through out the year. I think last year when we went there were over 1000 colleges there from all over the world. If they don't have something like that where you are (and I would be really surprised if they didn't) check out the one at the Minneapolis Convention Center next fall. They are a great place to start looking at the various schools. We found a few schools I knew were out there that I didn't know anything about that were quite impressive and we looked into those.

We also have daily visits at the high school from recruiters from all over the place. The kids just get a pass from the counselor's office to go meet with the recruiters. We get a daily announcement email from the high school and they list who is coming in the next few weeks and when. DS went to a few of those last year but had already applied and been accepted at his #1 choice before school got started this year so he hasn't gone to any this year. They also send out a list of the scholarships that come into the office each week. Check to see if your school has something like this if you don't already get this.

 

[bluesaturn]

Here the merit scholarships that you get put the private school tuition right at the same cost as the state schools and less than the University of MN, which is the whole point of giving out that money to the better students.

I think there may be a lot of differences due to geographic location. I would say I disagree with a bit of what you are saying, at least according to my experience in the east. It's interesting how different things can be in different parts of the country.

 

[golfgal]

I think there may be a lot of differences due to geographic location. I would say I disagree with a bit of what you are saying, at least according to my experience in the east. It's interesting how different things can be in different parts of the country.

That seems to be the general consensus. I posted a bunch of examples so I am not making this up. I don't really know of any private schools out east except the big ones like Harvard so I can't really say one way or another if kids out east don't have access to these merit scholarships or not.

 

[geffric]

OP - what about The Ohio State ? I understand that for Ohio residents it is cheaper than out of state residents..


When DS#1 was looking ( in the Midwest) he went Cornell (IA) , Beloit ( WIS), Bradley ( ILL) Earham ( IN) , Knox ( ILL) Roanoke (VA).. all small schools and all private.. very expensive.. but the merit aid was close to tuition.. In fact because the U of ILL in Urbana is so expensive ( $30,000 + for 2009 -20100) for instate students and gives very little aid to them .. the smaller and private schools with merit aid was cheaper..