How Involved is your DS/DD in the College Search Process?

[golfgal]

DS took the psat sophomore year and score 98% higher than other sophomores for critical reading and also for mathematics. In the writing skills area he scored 89% higher than other sophomores. I would have thought he'd do well when he took the test as a junior. Not so. He went down in all the areas. This is why I'm concerned he won't score well on the actual SAT or ACT but we shall see in the near future. Some of his friends score a 30 their first try but I don't think that will be him. Just now I told him to go do the practice software that I purchased and he acted like I was nuts.

You just never know. We were thinking that with the effort DS was putting into school he would be lucky to score double digits but ended up with a 28 on his first try so WHO knows .

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Our district has the middle school kids that want to take this take the test. It is nice to get an idea of where they will score. It isn't the same test at the real ACT, it is geared toward middle school learning, but I guess it is pretty accurate as to what the kids will score on the real one within a point or two.

Here my dd just took the ACT test. Not sure what you are talking about because they are taking the same test as the high schoolers.

 

[MrsPete]

Our youngest is a sophomore and he says he's going to UNC-Chapel. It is once again Kiplinger's #1 value in state universities and the alma mater of both DH and I, so he won't get any argument from me! I'm on the fence about whether I will drag him to visit other schools (words he would use to describe it).

He should definitely apply to at least one more school in addition to UNC. Having taught high school seniors for 17 years, I can tell you that MANY of our students -- even our top-top students -- are turned down for admission to UNC. Seriously, even if he is #1 in his class, I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in. Very unfairly, where you live can affect his chances of getting in; rural kids have a better chance than kids from, say, Raleigh or Charlotte. Google it -- it's a controversial subject! Anyway, UNC is probably the most competative school in NC. He should absolutely apply -- but he should also have a back up plan.

Mrs Pete, Thank you so much for your outline.

I'm glad you found it useful, but be sure to adapt it to your own specific needs -- I made it up rather quickly.

One thing I would change is do NOT look at schools because of cost. Don't weed anything out because of how much tuition is right now. Keep in mind, generally higher cost schools are private schools and private schools have larger endowments thus more money to hand out. It was SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive for me to attend a private school vs a public school and our friends and their kids are finding out the same thing.

This is worth investigating, but don't assume that it'll happen. Having "talked college" with many, many, many seniors over the years, I promise you that this is a fairly rare thing. If it happens for you, wonderful! But apply to a couple schools that are solidly within your price range without help too.

 

[Donnainnj]

I will keep that in mind, but think we make to much to get grants, and her grades are good, but don't know if they are that good. Dh has a scholarship program through work and we have to get that application and fill it out. His employer is listed under the Merit Scholarship companies, but they also offer them to employee's children that do not qualify as a MS. Might be something parents that work for larger companies might want to look into.
Donna

One thing I would change is do NOT look at schools because of cost. Don't weed anything out because of how much tuition is right now. Keep in mind, generally higher cost schools are private schools and private schools have larger endowments thus more money to hand out. It was SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive for me to attend a private school vs a public school and our friends and their kids are finding out the same thing. Also, if she has a descent GPA, scholarships will pay for a good majority of her costs. You can weed out schools when you get your aid package, don't do it before. She may pass up a full ride scholarship by doing that, you never know.

Heck, if you make under $100,000, Harvard doesn't cost you a dime.

 

[Uuaww]

My only advice is make sure you have a safety school! Applying to only one school is beyond rediculous. Having options is the best thing you can do for yourself.

 

[powellrj]

My DS did most of the work himself. He was one of the kids that knew which school he wanted to attend and applied the first day you could apply. He only applied to that school, BUT he did apply early enough that if he hadn't gotten in he still had plenty of time to apply to other schools. He applied the last week of August and found out the 3rd week of October when we did our visit. He made all the arrangements to take the SATs on his own because if I had made the arrangements I never would have scheduled it the morning of his brothers wedding!!!!

He was one of those kids that thought he knew what he wanted to do, but once we took the tour he changed his major. He never waived on his school, but he did his major.

We did find out that at least with his school, the earlier you apply, the better your chance to get in. He applied very early and kids that waited later in the year even though they had a better GPA and SATs, didn't get in.

 

[golfgal]

Here my dd just took the ACT test. Not sure what you are talking about because they are taking the same test as the high schoolers.

Middle Schoolers are given the ACT Explore test. It is different then the high school test. Unless she went on a Saturday morning to a high school and was seated with high school kids it is unlikely she took the high school version of the test.

He should definitely apply to at least one more school in addition to UNC. Having taught high school seniors for 17 years, I can tell you that MANY of our students -- even our top-top students -- are turned down for admission to UNC. Seriously, even if he is #1 in his class, I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in. Very unfairly, where you live can affect his chances of getting in; rural kids have a better chance than kids from, say, Raleigh or Charlotte. Google it -- it's a controversial subject! Anyway, UNC is probably the most competative school in NC. He should absolutely apply -- but he should also have a back up plan. I'm glad you found it useful, but be sure to adapt it to your own specific needs -- I made it up rather quickly. This is worth investigating, but don't assume that it'll happen. Having "talked college" with many, many, many seniors over the years, I promise you that this is a fairly rare thing. If it happens for you, wonderful! But apply to a couple schools that are solidly within your price range without help too.

Well, the schools around here must just have better endowments because it is no where near rare around here at all. Every college around here has a merit based scholarship just based on your grades from the previous year. Most of the private schools have a significant award-around 1/2 of the tuition just for having a 3.75 GPA (on a 4.0 scale). Add to that any number of available local scholarships and students around here that graduate high school with a 3.5 or better can pretty much count on not paying all that much for college. The state schools have similar, although not as good, offerings. DS17 is going to a state school and so far he has qualified for 3 scholarships just based on grades, ACT score and that we have alumni in the family. I don't know a single student for YEARS that has graduated with a 3.5 or better that hasn't gotten some of the school based scholarships. I know of no one that has ever had to pay 100% of their school costs.

Again, we are talking private schools, not state schools.

I will keep that in mind, but think we make to much to get grants, and her grades are good, but don't know if they are that good. Dh has a scholarship program through work and we have to get that application and fill it out. His employer is listed under the Merit Scholarship companies, but they also offer them to employee's children that do not qualify as a MS. Might be something parents that work for larger companies might want to look into.
Donna

There are many, many merit based scholarships available that have nothing to do with financial need.

My only advice is make sure you have a safety school! Applying to only one school is beyond rediculous. Having options is the best thing you can do for yourself.

Well, that depends on how early you apply. DS ended up only applying to one school. He did that back in August, had acceptance by September and knew he wanted to go there so we didn't apply anywhere else.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Middle Schoolers are given the ACT Explore test. It is different then the high school test. Unless she went on a Saturday morning to a high school and was seated with high school kids it is unlikely she took the high school version of the test.

Yes my dd went on a SAT morning to the high school and took the real test. Our schools don't have fancy explore programs. She was taking it as part of the DUKE TIP scholar program.

 

[wilderness01]

My child also took it on a Saturday am 8th grade year and scored a 26.

 

[bluesaturn]

Everyone told me in the last years of high school that private schools give out the best scholarships, and can end up being cheaper than public schools. I applied to tons of private schools, and I did get scholarships to most. But even a half tuition scholarship at a private school still made the tuition more expensive than my local public university. The room and board was often more expensive as well. Thankfully I applied to the public university (on a whim) because I ended up there. Depending on the schools you apply to and the practices in your area, private schools could be a better deal. But there's really no guarantee of scholarships until you have a letter in hand, so you have to cover all the bases.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My child also took it on a Saturday am 8th grade year and scored a 26.

Yea! My 7th grade dd got a 24 however she just has not had the math part to do well on that section.

Her reading and english were high which was no surprise.

So now she wants to go to the 2 week college programs. They are not cheap! However for her it will be worth it so she can do stuff on her own. I will gladly pay for that. Actually we were hoping she would decide to go, she applied and we have not heard anything yet, except they received her scores. They stay in a dorm for 2 weeks. Since she has seen older dd's dorm she has an idea of what it will be like.

Younger dd is looking to go out of state, get scholarships, etc., she is just wired that way. It makes my college freshman dd irritated sometimes.

 

[tar heel]

He should definitely apply to at least one more school in addition to UNC. Having taught high school seniors for 17 years, I can tell you that MANY of our students -- even our top-top students -- are turned down for admission to UNC. Seriously, even if he is #1 in his class, I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in. Very unfairly, where you live can affect his chances of getting in; rural kids have a better chance than kids from, say, Raleigh or Charlotte. Google it -- it's a controversial subject! Anyway, UNC is probably the most competative school in NC. He should absolutely apply -- but he should also have a back up plan.

Mrs. Pete -- I'm very familiar with Carolina's admission standards and statistics. I used to work for the university as did my DH, and we've already sent two sons to college -- one was accepted to Carolina but chose to go to State. My youngest son's academic record is stronger than his older brother's, making him a better Carolina applicant. We would never let our son apply to only one school unless it was early decision, which he will likely do. If the next two years of high school go like the first two, however, he will be very close to a lock.

I actually agree to some extent with Carolina's admission practices b/c I think it's extremely important to have students from the entire state.

 

[tar heel]

One more thing, Mrs. Pete -- As much as I love Carolina, Davidson is a lot harder to get into.

 

[MrsPete]

My only advice is make sure you have a safety school! Applying to only one school is beyond rediculous. Having options is the best thing you can do for yourself.

I don't know that ridiculous is the word for it, but it's not a wise choice. Every student should definitely have a "safety net" school in mind -- and it's not always grades or money that send a student in that direction. As I said, I've been teaching a long time, and I've seen some students fall into some dire situations, things that they didn't see coming. I've seen a couple girls, of course, who've ended up giving up scholarships to really good schools to stay home /attend community college because they found themselves unexpectedly with child. I knew one girl who developed cancer during her senior year of high school, and suddenly going away to school was no longer an option -- wisely, she began her college career as a half-time commuter student at a local university, and she continued to live at home because she frequently needed physical help from her parents. Any of our students could end up at their safety schools.

Everyone told me in the last years of high school that private schools give out the best scholarships, and can end up being cheaper than public schools. I applied to tons of private schools, and I did get scholarships to most. But even a half tuition scholarship at a private school still made the tuition more expensive than my local public university. The room and board was often more expensive as well. Thankfully I applied to the public university (on a whim) because I ended up there. Depending on the schools you apply to and the practices in your area, private schools could be a better deal. But there's really no guarantee of scholarships until you have a letter in hand, so you have to cover all the bases.

This is very typical of what I see every year.

Mrs. Pete -- I'm very familiar with Carolina's admission standards and statistics. I used to work for the university as did my DH, and we've already sent two sons to college -- one was accepted to Carolina but chose to go to State. My youngest son's academic record is stronger than his older brother's, making him a better Carolina applicant. We would never let our son apply to only one school unless it was early decision, which he will likely do. If the next two years of high school go like the first two, however, he will be very close to a lock.

Oh, good. You already knew what I had to say and feel the same way. Sounds like he's a good candidate, but I never tell any student, "You're a shoe-in". I have seen #1 in the class turned down by Carolina; of course, in all honesty, he was the kid who had the grades but not the extra-curriculars, leadership experience, etc. He wasn't well-rounded.

One more thing, Mrs. Pete -- As much as I love Carolina, Davidson is a lot harder to get into.

Hmmm . . . a quick google search says that you're right: Davidson accepts 26% and Carolina accepts 34%. I'm not sure that qualifies as "a lot harder", but they're both obviously selective and 8% is 8%.

I think the difference is that Carolina is THE DREAM SCHOOL for so many kids, and when they are rejected, it's a bigger deal to them. No one talks much about who was and wasn't accepted at Davidson -- I don't hear about students who are devestated because Davidson turned them down -- but when the Carolina letters arrive in the mail, the news zips around school. With Davidson (and other colleges), it's, "Did you hear that Jane received an acceptance letter from both Davidson and Clemson?" (I'm losing the emphasis here in writing, but it's about the individual student.) But with Carolina, the emphasis is on the school: "Did you hear that Mike, Susan, and John were all accepted at Carolina?" And it's assumed that once a student receives a Carolina acceptance, his college search/planning stops. He's done. He's arrived.

Off topic: My daughter's the same age as your younger son, and she claims right now that she's going to apply to Carolina so that she can turn them down (a scenerio that could very well happen). She's been a State fan for years, though I know she won't be attending State.

 

[tar heel]

Mrs. Pete -- Your daughter shouldn't be so sure that she would turn down Carolina. My oldest was born to two Carolina fanatics, lived his first years in Chapel Hill and two of his first little friends were Dean Smith's grandchildren. He said it felt weird to turn down Carolina because he always had assumed he would go there but that he wanted to major in engineering. Of course, he ended up changing his major . . .

I think Davidson is even harder to get in than the statistics indicate. Only the very top students would consider it and many students who think they might be interested change their minds when they see the application -- six essays when my oldest was looking at it, three of which you didn't get until after you sent the first three and general part of the application. My DS was one of the ones who decided against the application. I think some kids apply to Carolina knowing it's a stretch but they want to go so badly that they go ahead and do it. Of course, both schools are getting mostly applicants that could succeed at the school -- kids don't want to be rejected, so most will not apply if they have no chance.

 

[Uuaww]

Yeah, With a lot of safety schools, you don't have essays or the such, you just fill out the application and pay the fee. I remember when I was applying to University of California schools, it was just one application and you marked every box of schools you'd consider.

 

[golfgal]

Just talked to a friend of ours who's son is a National Merit Finalist and will graduate with a 4.0--just got a full ride offer to the University of MN, turned down by Stanford (his #1 choice) accepted to Notre Dame, Dartmouth, Harvard. You just never know.

 

[allison443]

Just talked to a friend of ours who's son is a National Merit Finalist and will graduate with a 4.0--just got a full ride offer to the University of MN, turned down by Stanford (his #1 choice) accepted to Notre Dame, Dartmouth, Harvard. You just never know.

He's a current senior? If he's heard from these last four schools, he must have applied early action(not binding)/early decision(binding), as their notification date for regular admission decisions is April 1. Dartmouth has early decision, which is binding, so I guess he will be attending Dartmouth! Fantastic! I wonder why he would apply binding early decision to Dartmouth, though, if Stanford was his top choice? Did your friend tell you why?

However, Stanford has "single choice early action" where students can apply for nonbinding early action but they aren't supposed to apply anywhere else early action/early decision, and they have to sign a statement on the application that they have not done so. Looks like your friend's son broke that rule! I'm surprised the high school guidance counselor would send out other transcripts while a single choice early action was pending. They're not supposed to do that. Or else your friend was exaggerating....not that parents ever do that

Something is not right with this story. I don't think your friend was telling you everything. Yeah, I have read college confidential way too much...

 

[golfgal]

He's a current senior? If he's heard from these last four schools, he must have applied early action(not binding)/early decision(binding), as their notification date for regular admission decisions is April 1. Dartmouth has early decision, which is binding, so I guess he will be attending Dartmouth! Fantastic! I wonder why he would apply binding early decision to Dartmouth, though, if Stanford was his top choice? Did your friend tell you why?

However, Stanford has "single choice early action" where students can apply for nonbinding early action but they aren't supposed to apply anywhere else early action/early decision, and they have to sign a statement on the application that they have not done so. Looks like your friend's son broke that rule! I'm surprised the high school guidance counselor would send out other transcripts while a single choice early action was pending. They're not supposed to do that. Or else your friend was exaggerating....not that parents ever do that

Something is not right with this story. I don't think your friend was telling you everything. Yeah, I have read college confidential way too much...

Um, I don't know. I don't doubt he has applied to all of those schools--the translation from our friend to my DH to me might be the problem. I know he did hear from Stanford--well I think so since DH said that she said that he said that was his #1 choice--ok, need to clarify with our friend and not Dh The kid is brilliant--National Merit Finalist, 36 on his ACT (published info one the school website so VERY True. I don't know his exact score for his SAT but it was high. He was even homecoming king much to his mother's surprise. Her comment was "we didn't think anyone knew who he was" .

 

[allison443]

Um, I don't know. I don't doubt he has applied to all of those schools--the translation from our friend to my DH to me might be the problem. I know he did hear from Stanford--well I think so since DH said that she said that he said that was his #1 choice--ok, need to clarify with our friend and not Dh The kid is brilliant--National Merit Finalist, 36 on his ACT (published info one the school website so VERY True. I don't know his exact score for his SAT but it was high. He was even homecoming king much to his mother's surprise. Her comment was "we didn't think anyone knew who he was" .

Oh I'm sure the kid is outstanding and he undoubtedly has/will have a lot of great options. I was just making the point that we all "hear" things about this process that intentionally or not, are exaggerated, etc. We have to be careful about using these as a basis for generalizations.