How important is a college degree?

[ktpool]

No, THAT is MY EXPERIENCE. If yours is different, that's great. But after spending five+ years in the I/T department of a Fortune 100, those with degrees often were much less willing to pitch in on projects outside the scope of their job description. In some casesoutright refused to, in other cases did so only when absolutely given no choice by their supervisor.

Anne

I give up.

 

[ktpool]

My husband took a practice MCSE test his freshman year in college, and he passed without studying for it. College is much longer and more challenging than the prep for a MCSA or MCSE certificate.

What one prep test did he take for his MCSE? You must pass 7 (seven) very different tests for a MCSE (4 for a MCSA). So if you husband took a practice exam his freshmen year, yeah, it may have been easy for him to pass. But that is just one test - not all seven. And as the tests progress, they get more difficult.

I have done both, and hold an MCSE and MCSA and a degree in IT - they were all hard and one was not more difficult than the other. A BA is simply more time consuming,, because you are limited in the amount of classes you can take at any given time. But I know there are many people that could easily pass one of my college courses and fail a Microsoft cert test, and vice-versa.

The generalizations on this thread are killing me, man

 

[C.Darwin]

wow. ducklite sure sounds bitter. she's determined not to hire someone with a degree no matter what. i sense quite a bit of jealousy on her part. it's a shame that someone with that attitude/prejudice would be allowed to hire anyone, anywhere.

 

[ducklite]

wow. ducklite sure sounds bitter. she's determined not to hire someone with a degree no matter what. i sense quite a bit of jealousy on her part. it's a shame that someone with that attitude/prejudice would be allowed to hire anyone, anywhere.

I'm determined to hire the best person for the job, but believe that a person without a degree might be just as qualified--and perhaps have more "real life" experience. I will weigh all candidates on their qualifications, but will not give more weight to someone simply because they have a college degree--particularly if they have a certificate from a tech school or an MCSE.

I'm not sure why that is so freaking hard for anyone to understand.

BTW--where did I EVER say I was "determined not to hire someone with a degree no matter what." If I was determined to not hire a college graduate I would list qualifications as "prefer technical school certificate or "X" years experience."

Anne

 

[ducklite]

What one prep test did he take for his MCSE? You must pass 7 (seven) very different tests for a MCSE (4 for a MCSA). So if you husband took a practice exam his freshmen year, yeah, it may have been easy for him to pass. But that is just one test - not all seven. And as the tests progress, they get more difficult.

I have done both, and hold an MCSE and MCSA and a degree in IT - they were all hard and one was not more difficult than the other. A BA is simply more time consuming,, because you are limited in the amount of classes you can take at any given time. But I know there are many people that could easily pass one of my college courses and fail a Microsoft cert test, and vice-versa.

Exactly! So why are you so aghast that I might hire someone who doesn't have a college degree but has an MCSE or certificate from a tech school?

Talk about contradictory...

Anne

 

[LK03]

Oh give it up. Just stick with your ad and when you interview potential candidates you'll find the right person. I'm glad I wouldn't be interviewing with you, you seem awfully preoccupied with degrees/certifications than what the candidate may actually bring to the table. I'm a very creative, hard working individual but in my summers as I worked as a cashier on my summers off from college one wouldn't see that. Also, I came from a middle class town in the middle of big cities where I could not afford to take non paying internships in big cities where I had no where to live so turning me away based simply on the lack of internship would be a mistake.

 

[declansdad]

wow. ducklite sure sounds bitter. she's determined not to hire someone with a degree no matter what. i sense quite a bit of jealousy on her part. it's a shame that someone with that attitude/prejudice would be allowed to hire anyone, anywhere.

You know there have been many other threads where I have not agreed with ducklite but I have to defend her here.

She has never once said that she would not hire someone with a college degree. Originally she asked for opinions on who would make a better candidate for the position that she would be advertising. Many people have decided that based on the responses that have been posted they felt a need to defend and encourage people to attend college. She has not bashed college and has only used her own experiences to defend herself.

 

[LoraJ]

You know there have been many other threads where I have not agreed with ducklite but I have to defend her here.

She has never once said that she would not hire someone with a college degree. Originally she asked for opinions on who would make a better candidate for the position that she would be advertising. Many people have decided that based on the responses that have been posted they felt a need to defend and encourage people to attend college. She has not bashed college and has only used her own experiences to defend herself.

Exactly.
And as someone without a degree, there have been several posts in this thread that I have found rather insulting.
It seems as though the attitude here is that those of us without degrees are uninformed bigots with no earning potential and dead end jobs. That' simply not true.

 

[Aidensmom]

First, I applaud you for choosing to make a difference!

But as to your cleanup, I think that in your field people are more inclined to do what it takes. The I/T industry in my experience is quite different, people tend to have a "not my job" attitude.

Anne

Maybe you should limit your generalizations to the COMPANY you work for. I think what is irritating people on this thread, including myself, is your generalization of the IT industry as a whole. Not everyone has a superior attitude, and not everyone with a superior attitude works in the IT field.

 

[ead79]

I have not taken the MCSE or MCSA exams, but my husband took (as I mentioned earlier) practice exams--all 7 of them, and passed them all. He would be the first to admit that he doesn't assume from that practice test that he could've necessarily passed the "real deal" MCSE exam.

However, I want to be clear that I am absolutely not knocking the MCSE or MCSA certifications. Until he chose to enter the technology sales area, he was planning to obtain a MCSE certification in addition to a degree in computer science. He and I both see the value these certifications provide. I did not mean to imply that they are worthless or easy. Certainly for me, they would be impossible--systems engineering is not this marketing major's best subject, that's for sure!

I simply took offense at the comment made that getting a MCSE is more difficult than getting a four year degree. To me, that is a sweeping generalization. I did not mean to generalize myself about the MCSE/MCSA. However, I still maintain my opinion that completing 120+ hours of coursework over a four year period is certainly a difficult task. Usually MCSE prep and test taking requires months, not four years. That is not to imply that it is easy, just that a four year degree should not be dismissed as four years spent taking "foreign language and history." I hardly think that advanced business statistics, finance, accounting, and economics are crib courses.

My intent was not to knock an MCSE or MCSA, just to point out that a college degree is not as invaluable as some imply.

 

[ducklite]

Oh give it up. Just stick with your ad and when you interview potential candidates you'll find the right person. I'm glad I wouldn't be interviewing with you, you seem awfully preoccupied with degrees/certifications than what the candidate may actually bring to the table. I'm a very creative, hard working individual but in my summers as I worked as a cashier on my summers off from college one wouldn't see that. Also, I came from a middle class town in the middle of big cities where I could not afford to take non paying internships in big cities where I had no where to live so turning me away based simply on the lack of internship would be a mistake.

Bottom line, a candidate for this particular job could be as bright and creative as the dickens, but I wouldn't hire them if they didn't have real world hands on experience, regardless of their educational background or certifications. The job requires minimum one year relevent experience--more if they don't have any education or certification to back it up, and working as a cashier isn't relevent to this position.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

I wanted to follow up here...

After receiving over 300 resumes for the I/T position in 16 hours, I pulled the ad.

I've waded through them, and identified 10 candidates for phone interviews.

They are as follows:

Two have BS degrees and 2-3 years of experience

Three have technical school certificates and 2-5 years of experience

Two are recenly retired military with various certifications and 10+ years of experience

Two have various certifications and 5-10 years of experience

One has an AS and MCSE and I personally know him from my last job--he has NO idea that I'm the one who placed the ad, I haven't seen or spoken to him in 7 months. He's looking to relocate. I know his capabilities, and while he's exceptionally good at what he does, I'm not sure he has exactly the right skill set for this position.

In all honesty the one I like best on paper is one of the military guys. He seems to have exactly the qualifications we're looking for.

Anne