How important is a college degree?

[kpm76]

Only you know what credentials would make the candidate most desirable, but I would not generalize that most people with a degree will be less likely to pitch in and help with any kind of project, mundane or not. My husband has an Ivy League degree and work in politics. His responsibilities run the gamut from writing press releases, writing testamony for a hearing on a bill to stuffing envelopes for a fund-raiser. It's my opinion that having a holier than thou attitude will get you nowhere, degree or not.

 

[ducklite]

Only you know what credentials would make the candidate most desirable, but I would not generalize that most people with a degree will be less likely to pitch in and help with any kind of project, mundane or not. My husband has an Ivy League degree and work in politics. His responsibilities run the gamut from writing press releases, writing testamony for a hearing on a bill to stuffing envelopes for a fund-raiser. It's my opinion that having a holier than thou attitude will get you nowhere, degree or not.

Having come from part of a 3000 person I/T team on my last job, I've seen this firsthand. Those who had a degree were generally much more reluctant to "get their hands dirty" in something that wasn't in a typical job description for their position than those who had worked their way up or had a technical school certificate. That's the real life observations I'm basing that statement on.

Anne

 

[bananiem]

Is a college degree necessary? Maybe not to do your IT job but I think you'd want someody with a couple of degrees to surgically remove that chip from your shoulder.

 

[declansdad]

Based on the day to day tasks that you stated, I think the best candidate would come from a technical school. As you stated, they receive hands on training that is specific to network administration. Most college/university cs programs that I have seen focus on programming not administration.

I should note that I do have a bit of a bias here. I teach at a technical school/business college.

 

[kpm76]

Having come from part of a 3000 person I/T team on my last job, I've seen this firsthand. Those who had a degree were generally much more reluctant to "get their hands dirty" in something that wasn't in a typical job description for their position than those who had worked their way up or had a technical school certificate. That's the real life observations I'm basing that statement on.

Anne

I guess in your field then that is true. My point was that not everyone is reluctant to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

 

[nannerbadnanner]

Well, it is obviously not a requirement for your position, but I do think a degree is really necessary to get ahead, especially in the high-tech sectors. I work as a career coach, and I have had so many non-degreed IT people struggle to get a job. Why? Because they are competing with people who have both experience and degrees. Also, many companies require the degree from the outset because they want someone who can be promoted. With my former company, it was okay to hire someone with experience in lieu of a degree, but that was for the rare, exceptional candidate. My boss's rationale was that a degree was required for some of the higher level positions, and it was unfair to hire someone and then have no way to promote them.

 

[ducklite]

Is a college degree necessary? Maybe not to do your IT job but I think you'd want someody with a couple of degrees to surgically remove that chip from your shoulder.

No more so than you need to work with some proctologists.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Well, it is obviously not a requirement for your position, but I do think a degree is really necessary to get ahead, especially in the high-tech sectors. I work as a career coach, and I have had so many non-degreed IT people struggle to get a job. Why? Because they are competing with people who have both experience and degrees. Also, many companies require the degree from the outset because they want someone who can be promoted. With my former company, it was okay to hire someone with experience in lieu of a degree, but that was for the rare, exceptional candidate. My boss's rationale was that a degree was required for some of the higher level positions, and it was unfair to hire someone and then have no way to promote them.

With this particular position it's going to be a lower end job than someone who will be on a career path into upper management would be looking for in terms of both income and responsibilities. While there is room for promotion, it will never end up being a position promotable to a point where a BS would be a requirement--although in *most* I/T positions, someone with five years experience will be given the same weight as someone with one year experience and a college degree.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Based on the day to day tasks that you stated, I think the best candidate would come from a technical school. As you stated, they receive hands on training that is specific to network administration. Most college/university cs programs that I have seen focus on programming not administration.

I should note that I do have a bit of a bias here. I teach at a technical school/business college.

Finally someone who GETS IT!!

Anne

 

[ducklite]

BTW--For anyone who thinks I am biased against people with college educations, I'm also writing an ad for an Accounting Manager, and that one has minimum education requirements of a BS, preferably a Masters.

That's a high level position that reports directly to the CFO and supervises five or more people.

Anne

 

[Bob Slydell]

Finally someone who GETS IT!!

Anne

So, did you want opinions or agreement?

 

[ducklite]

So, did you want opinions or agreement?

Bob,

I've taken your opinions as constructive. Not everyone on this thread has had intelligent opinions.

While I can certainly see your point about a lack of degree being potentially detrimental to advancement, as I stated, this position is not, and never will be a management track.

I suppose if I had put a bit more about the position into my first post some of you would have seen that.

Anne

 

[Bob Slydell]

While I can certainly see your point about a lack of degree being potentially detrimental to advancement, as I stated, this position is not, and never will be a management track.

I suppose if I had put a bit more about the position into my first post some of you would have seen that.

And I agree with you that as you describe the job, a degree would not be necessary, but you didn't seem to leave it at that, but rather, went on to give all the reasons you wouldn't want a college graduate (e.g. wanting more money than they're worth, not willing to do "dirty work", no real world experience, etc.) All of which are stereotypical of college grads, and someone derogatory at that.

So if you had your mind made up as to the candidate you wanted, why go on about why a college grad would be wrong for your job listing?

 

[ducklite]

And I agree with you that as you describe the job, a degree would not be necessary, but you didn't seem to leave it at that, but rather, went on to give all the reasons you wouldn't want a college graduate (e.g. wanting more money than they're worth, not willing to do "dirty work", no real world experience, etc.) All of which are stereotypical of college grads, and someone derogatory at that.

So if you had your mind made up as to the candidate you wanted, why go on about why a college grad would be wrong for your job listing?

Actually I never said I didn't want someone with a degree. In fact I said that I might find the perfect candidate in that pot, which is why i was including it.

Unless they've done an internship, most computer science grads don't have the real world trouble shooting experience that this job would require. That's a fact.

And it has been my experience that in the I/T field, many with degrees are not as willing to work on projects outside the scope of I/T as those who had worked their way up.

I don't have my mind made up, I plan on giving weight to all candidates. But I'm NOT requiring a degree. I guess that's the bottom line. There are jobs available to those without degrees.

Anne

 

[kpm76]

And I agree with you that as you describe the job, a degree would not be necessary, but you didn't seem to leave it at that, but rather, went on to give all the reasons you wouldn't want a college graduate (e.g. wanting more money than they're worth, not willing to do "dirty work", no real world experience, etc.) All of which are stereotypical of college grads, and someone derogatory at that.

So if you had your mind made up as to the candidate you wanted, why go on about why a college grad would be wrong for your job listing?

I agree with you 100%. I know the OP has had lots of "real life" experience in this field, but that does not mean every college grad that comes her way will fit the profile she has outlined. Most college students are doing some kind of practical work while still a student, whether it be internships during the semester or summer jobs. Sounds like the OP knows what she is looking for and that is fine, but when you specifically ask for opinions/comments you have to realize that not everyone is going to see things as you do and just because their opinions or experiences may differ from yours does not mean they are not intelligent, as the OP has intimated in her above post.

 

[Anthony1971]

BTW--For anyone who thinks I am biased against people with college educations, I'm also writing an ad for an Accounting Manager, and that one has minimum education requirements of a BS, preferably a Masters.

That's a high level position that reports directly to the CFO and supervises five or more people.

Anne

I am an Accounting Manager--or the for my company--
Thank you for considering it a high level job -- although it is just doing what the CFO no longer wants to do and the people below me do what I do not want to do and the people below them do what they do not wnat to do yes i am responsable for it all though and I do have a degree.
Reading this is think a lot of people are taking offense to what other people are saying....
Bottom line is how hard you work is how far you will go
I will ALWAYS encourage someon to get a 4 year degree or further even if they do not use it now -- you may need ot later
My wife has a masters and she is in communications and she makes almost twice what I make and yes some of that is because she has a Masters but most of it is because she works hard and is good at what she does and that could include stuffing envelopes
what I have to say is work hard degree or not and you will do well BUT I will always say to get a degree in a 4 year college if you can

 

[declansdad]

I will ALWAYS encourage someon to get a 4 year degree or further even if they do not use it now -- you may need ot later

I'm sorry but college/university is not for everyone. Why waste your time and money on something that you do not want to do? There are many technical/community/private colleges out there that have much to offer. Not everyone should go to a four year university.

 

[Anthony1971]

I'm sorry but college/university is not for everyone. Why waste your time and money on something that you do not want to do? There are many technical/community/private colleges out there that have much to offer. Not everyone should go to a four year university.

What I said was not trying to agree or disagree with anyone.
I said I would encourage it simply because if you have the opportunity I would certianly suggest it as you may do yourself a disservice in the future being MANY large compnaies require a 4 year degree just to work for them much less to advance. I do not make the rules I only follow them and I can only tell you what I have seen......
that is not saying you will not do well with a differnt type of degree but if you are looking for that corporate job in technical field then you need to get a 4 year degree AND do internships to get expierence but i would say that with any field as well.
Agian you may do just as well as the next guy but you may deny yourself an oppurtunity as well.....
Bottom line is you are competing against other people to get a job and what ever edge you can give yourself gets you closer to getting a job you want and that job may not require a four year degree but it will not hurt you either....
I got my degree after working for 4 years full time and being a store Manager making good money -- but working 6 days and 10 hour days.... now I work 5 days 9-5 and make more both are good jobs it is just what you want and i had never got my degree i would have never had this opportunity

 

[nannerbadnanner]

I'm sorry but college/university is not for everyone. Why waste your time and money on something that you do not want to do? There are many technical/community/private colleges out there that have much to offer. Not everyone should go to a four year university.

I definitely agree with this. There are many great vocational and technical schools. I personally have both a bachelor's degree and a certificate from a vocational school so I have experienced both and see the value of both.

I can only speak from my experience, but most IT people are only as valuable as the latest technology. I have seen many programmers languish on the job market because their skills are not up-to-date. We work with them to get their skills upgraded (usually from a technical school, occasionally to help them finish a 4 year degree). From my experience, companies are more inclined to hire someone without a degree if he has experience with the lastest and greatest technology. Once that technology is more common, the companies have to look at other factors, such as whether or not that person has a degree. This is when a degree usually gives candidates an edge (unless of course, they are applying to work for the OP ).

 

[WIcruizer]

Every position in every company is unique, which makes the job requirements unique. I'm partially responsible for filling various positions within my company, so I deal with this issue constantly. What I've learned over the years is to hire the RIGHT person, even if they may not look like the best person on paper.