How important is a college degree?

[nannerbadnanner]

Every position in every company is unique, which makes the job requirements unique. I'm partially responsible for filling various positions within my company, so I deal with this issue constantly. What I've learned over the years is to hire the RIGHT person, even if they may not look like the best person on paper.

That's a very wise approach!

 

[SeaSpray]

Wow this thread is really going off in many different directions. But it caught my eye because I just picked up DS18 from his Freshman Orientation, a 2-day event, at the college he'll be attending in the fall, where coincidently he'll be a CS major He will probably end up minoring in CS and majoring in Business Management, or another subject that interests him; psychology!

ANYWAY...

Anne, might I suggest that you call the local vo-tech and ask the teacher to recommend their best student? My DS18 just graduated from a vo-tech with a CIT certificate, as well as being CISCO and C++ certified, as well as a few other certifications. He's also had real-life trouble-shooting experience too. I know he'd be a good candidate for the position you need to fill, and he'd stuff envelopes too

It sounds as if you'd prefer someone with experience but someone who won't necessarily be looking to climb the company ladder, so a vo-tech graduate who isn't going on to college would probably be very excited to get a job like you've described

Just my humble input

P.S. To the poster who said that if you have the opportunity to go to college and get a 4-year degree and should probably take advantage of that opportunity, is dead-on. I personally know several people who are now in their 40's and 50's (and even in their 30's) who really regret not having gone to college as a youth. They started out making "decent money" at the time, but now they've reached their earning potential and realize there's no way they can advance without further education.

 

[declansdad]

Ok, first let me say that I do have a Bachelor of Business Administration and I do not regret getting it. For me it worked. I can also tell you business admin was not my first choice and I changed programs after my first year.

Currently I teach at a private technical/business college. I was also the principal for three years. I did all the hiring for our school and as WIcruizer said it is about hiring the right person not the person who looks best on paper or has been through a four year degree.

If you encourage people to attend university because they may regret it later in life, you are doing them a great disservice. I can't tell you the number of students we enrol that drop out of university. When you ask them why they dropped out, many of them will tell you that it was not for them. They were "encouraged" to go because that is what mom and dad did, or because the high school guidance counsellor told them that was the only way to get a job.

The only thing that advice did for them was to get them a few psych courses and a large debt to start off their adult life.

A large number of our graduates, especially IT grads, have left our school to jobs making more than I will ever make and some of them have managed to progress into the upper levels of the large companies they work for. You do not need a university degree to be successful in life.

 

[SeaSpray]

Ok, first let me say that I do have a Bachelor of Business Administration and I do not regret getting it. For me it worked. I can also tell you business admin was not my first choice and I changed programs after my first year.

Currently I teach at a private technical/business college. I was also the principal for three years. I did all the hiring for our school and as WIcruizer said it is about hiring the right person not the person who looks best on paper or has been through a four year degree.

If you encourage people to attend university because they may regret it later in life, you are doing them a great disservice. I can't tell you the number of students we enrol that drop out of university. When you ask them why they dropped out, many of them will tell you that it was not for them. They were "encouraged" to go because that is what mom and dad did, or because the high school guidance counsellor told them that was the only way to get a job.

The only thing that advice did for them was to get them a few psych courses and a large debt to start off their adult life.

A large number of our graduates, especially IT grads, have left our school to jobs making more than I will ever make and some of them have managed to progress into the upper levels of the large companies they work for. You do not need a university degree to be successful in life.

I guess all any of us can do is base our opinions on our own experiences, and the experiences of those we know.

For the record, my DS18 will not be starting off life in debt, and should he decide that college is "not for him", we'll be there to guide him in making the best decisions he can. The decisions we make very early in life often are not the same decisions we'd make for ourselves, looking back on it, years later....

Going to college or not, and whether one will be successful in life with or without a college degree, is *not* a black and white issue, and something we can probably all agree on.

 

[ktpool]

Bob,

I've taken your opinions as constructive. Not everyone on this thread has had intelligent opinions.

While I can certainly see your point about a lack of degree being potentially detrimental to advancement, as I stated, this position is not, and never will be a management track.

I suppose if I had put a bit more about the position into my first post some of you would have seen that.

Anne

I find it amazing that you are in charge of hiring! How incredibly short sighted your organization must be to say 'this position is not, and never will be a management track'.

A good organization (and a great manager), recognizes that great employees come from many different tracks. I would NEVER hire someone in this kind of skilled position without the leaving the possibility of mentoring the associate to do great things. What a waste

PS - I am an IT Manager in a global organization with over 25,000 employees - as well as personally having an IT/Project Management degree and holding several technical certifications, so I do know a just a little bit about the subject.

 

[Caradana]

A degree puts me on a competitive playing field for the 90%+ jobs advertised in this week's New York Times as "college degree required."

Thousands of people head to work every day with the cold knots of fear in their guts - "is this the day I will be laid off? I can't find another job at this pay." Why? No degree.

A degree as a signal that the graduate can complete a difficult task. Dropping out is easy. Finishing requires persistence. That being said, degrees from technical schools certainly qualify.

Anne, what is your degree in? Was it a waste of time for you?

- Dana (honors BSE, Systems Engineering, and more than happy to stuff envelopes for a relevant cause. I just did it for a volunteer organization recently. That being said, if the task involved addressing 1500 envelopes, I'd probably call a local vendor, feed in the mail file, and get the job done for under $200, saving me the opportunity cost incurred by distracting employees from their areas of expertise and profit centers)

 

[Aidensmom]

This is my experience, and my advice based on it:

I work in an IT type position. I don't have certification or training in anything remotely related, I am self-taught. I do have a college degree, in Psychology/Sociology.

I am one of the best people in my position where I work, according to both my superiors and my clients. I am able to fulfill all the duties of my job and am not afraid to do things that "dirty my hands".

I would NEVER have applied for this position had it not required a degree. Why? Becaue the ones that don't pay less, and no matter what you are paying, I would assume that this would be the case.

There are a lot of people out there these days with IT skills. The cream of the crop are not going to even consider working for you if they think they are not going to be paid what they are worth. And one of the guages people in this field look for when applying for a job is what is required. It may not apply to the particular job you are hiring for, but on average, the higher paying ones require degrees. And that is the assumption people are going to make.

 

[ducklite]

I find it amazing that you are in charge of hiring! How incredibly short sighted your organization must be to say 'this position is not, and never will be a management track'.

A good organization (and a great manager), recognizes that great employees come from many different tracks. I would NEVER hire someone in this kind of skilled position without the leaving the possibility of mentoring the associate to do great things. What a waste

PS - I am an IT Manager in a global organization with over 25,000 employees - as well as personally having an IT/Project Management degree and holding several technical certifications, so I do know a just a little bit about the subject.

Because we are a VERY small company (under 150 employees with only 17 being directly supported by this person.), and even if we were to grow to be ten times the size that we are now, this position would not lead to anything more than *maybe* a team leader type of position. If we were twenty times as large as we are now, we would have the need for *maybe* three I/T people, and for this reason this is not a management track job.

If I were hiring for a 25,000 person company, I'm sure I'd be looking at things differently. There will never be a large I/T team, and for that reason in itself this is not a management track position. Because we are a group of franchised stores, 90% of our I/T services are provided by our "parent company."

So until you know all the details, you might want to keep your bashing to yourself.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Anne, what is your degree in? Was it a waste of time for you?

I don't have a degree, and I've done just fine without one. I have 45 credits towards one, and it would have been the ever so useful English major.

I do have a paralegal certification and an I/T certificate from NJIT.

IMHO for a lot of the positions out there, a certificate in the respective field makes the candidate just as qualified as a degree would be--sometimes more so.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

I just did it for a volunteer organization recently. That being said, if the task involved addressing 1500 envelopes, I'd probably call a local vendor, feed in the mail file, and get the job done for under $200, saving me the opportunity cost incurred by distracting employees from their areas of expertise and profit centers)

They were those prepaid cradboard USPS envelopes, not something you can just run through a machine. Trust me, if there had been an easier way I would have taken it.

Anne

 

[Buckalew11]

Interesting thread. As someone w/o a degree, it is interesting to read these thoughts.

 

[Laura]

I don't have a degree, and I've done just fine without one. I have 45 credits towards one, and it would have been the ever so useful English major.

I do have a paralegal certification and an I/T certificate from NJIT.

IMHO for a lot of the positions out there, a certificate in the respective field makes the candidate just as qualified as a degree would be--sometimes more so.

Anne

Well, I have a B.A. in English, and while it’s certainly not as useful or profitable than other bachelor’s degrees like Dana’s SysE (my brother also happens to have the same degree), I have found it more useful and profitable than no degree at all. I command a higher salary than someone with no degree and similar experience, and I am qualified for far more positions. An English degree isn’t totally useless. No degree is. One just needs to know what to do with it. My DH has two B.A. degrees: History and Medieval and Renaissance Studies. He does network and PC support. His work experience got him his job, not his degree.

In the case of the particular job you’re talking about, a person with a degree wouldn’t necessarily be the best candidate. But that person hardly is the worst. Generally, does a degree matter? That depends.

 

[bananiem]

In my field (early childhood education) the only way you can go higher is with continued education. The people who have the degree have had the classes that teach them various ways to deal with various behaviors, they had to do student teaching and be closely watched by a certified teacher, etc.
Do I think everyone needs a 4 year degree? No. There are certainly jobs that don't require it. But the years I spent in college gave my an even better education outside the classroom. I grew and matured so much by having my eyes opened to the many classes I took and people I met.
If the OP thinks people with degrees are lazy, then it has been MY experience that people who didn't go on with their education or complete it tend to be more bigotted and uninformed.

 

[sajetto]

How important is a college degree?


VERY, at least in my job. I'm an elementary school teacher. In that field no degree = no job.


Answer this question for yourself honestly

Do you want someone without a degree in education teaching your kids the most important infomation they'll gather in their lives?


Do I feel everyone for every job needs a degree, NO. However, for some I can't imagine the staff not being college educated.

 

[CheshireVal]

My English degree got me in the door of many interviews (advertising, public relations, newspapers, etc) that I never would have been granted without, and I do feel it was time well spent.

 

[Planogirl]

I think it really depends on the person.

My brother never completed his degree but he's a CS wiz. He worked his way into Management at Dell and now he's self-employed. I'm sure that it was more difficult getting in the door originally but once there he bypassed many who had degrees simply by displaying his knowledge and aptitude.

I do have a degree and find it basically useless in my little world. I'm not sorry that I have it but WHICH degree is important too.

 

[Caradana]

IMHO for a lot of the positions out there, a certificate in the respective field makes the candidate just as qualified as a degree would be--sometimes more so.

I think that's a very fair point. Actually, I just took a class on Microsoft Access to help me ramp up on any future job responsibilities.

That being said, college isn't all about gaining qualifications. It's also about developing new ways to think and interpret information, the liberal-arts philosophy, which isn't emphasized in vocational or technical schools.

 

[ktpool]

"If I were hiring for a 25,000 person company, I'm sure I'd be looking at things differently. There will never be a large I/T team, and for that reason in itself this is not a management track position. Because we are a group of franchised stores, 90% of our I/T services are provided by our "parent company."

So until you know all the details, you might want to keep your bashing to yourself."

Ummmm...I wasn't bashing.

You are confusing hiring the 'person' and the 'role' the will take. The 'role' very well may never be management, but the PERSON might be one day. So you should not advertise (or say this during the interview process) that there is no room for advancement - you will turn off a lot of qualified people that may provide long - term benefits to your company. What I meant by being short sighted is that anyone who is doing personnel hiring should look at the long term potential of the employee - not just in the 'role' for which they are interviewing.

Surely there is someone in HR that can help you with this?

 

[Puffy2]

Seems to me you know what you want for an employee.

The degree person would basically mean that they can stick to something for an extended period of time, that they can communicate on a higher level (written especially), and usually they can think for themselves and often lead - all in addition to having the training that the degree gave them. If you don't need any of that - go for the other.

 

[Puffy2]

And as far as "needing" a degree. That also depends on what you want to do and how far up the ladder you want to go.

In many cases, the four year degree isn't enough anymore. Masters are more valuable for opening doors. In other areas, where the diploma was enough (nursing in particular) - now a BSN is often required before many hospitals will consider you for management positions - and really, they want Masters in that field too.

And I think the OP stated it clearly: they didn't want a college degree person because that person would expect more money - another reason to get the degree; those with degrees are generally paid more.

But not everyone wants to be a boss or a manager. And often money and benefits aren't all that important to them.