How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[OurBigTrip]

Good morning everyone... well afternoon, I finished grading and am back. Here is my tidbit to the discussion:

Feds are going to do a second autopsy...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/michael-brown-second-autopsy_n_5685747.html

'

One of the family attorneys said yesterday that they have hired Michael Baden to do an independent autopsy. I wonder if they'll still do so, given that the feds feel that they need to do one as well.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This. shooting him once, maybe even twice. But police officers are trained to be able to keep their heads even when they are faced with the chance of sever bodily harm.

If he was running or facing him on his knees why continue to shoot?

IF.

The answer could be that IF he charged for the officer...

Why is that important?

Because witnesses early on acknowledged an incident in the car and acknowledged that a shot occurred there first.

If that is the case, and if Mike Brown was running towards the officer, it is a logical conclusion to draw that Mike Brown would go for the gun again. And the last thing the officer wants to do, is to give up his gun and maybe his life.

Then the use of force becomes reasonable.


*hypothetical scenario pending evidence

Given that Mr Brown just robbed a store, he had every reason to be paranoid of the officer and a lot to lose if he were arrested. He was a supposedly nice boy starting college on Monday. It is fair to presume that he had a real reason to fear the cops this day. So it is plausible that he could have been the aggressor in some version of the scenario that ultimately ended his life.

Whatever the outcome, I do not believe the officer was out to kill in cold blood that day. (Huffington Post article says the officer had no complaints filed against him in his 6 years with the dept.)

 

[Suger Mag]

'

One of the family attorneys said yesterday that they have hired Michael Baden to do an independent autopsy. I wonder if they'll still do so, given that the feds feel that they need to do one as well.

The HuffPost article says the Feds are doing it because the family requested it... maybe they want a a third in addition to the Feds, can't hurt at this point and maybe it will be the "tie-breaker"...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Good morning everyone... well afternoon, I finished grading and am back. Here is my tidbit to the discussion:

Feds are going to do a second autopsy...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/michael-brown-second-autopsy_n_5685747.html


Question about trajactory... is that specific of a determination possible on a body? I know it is very specific (down to a degree or two) on hard objects like a wall or car where you have 2 bullet holes, but on a body? what if the officer was crouched in a shooter stance? would that not also affect trajactory? I personally do not know but get my data from my love of true crime shows...

They be able to determine entrance and exit (so if he was shot from front or back) and how close or far.


As far as the rest--I would be basing it all on CSI.

 

[Suger Mag]

Thanks... I also love my crime shows, any other 'armchair' ballistic experts out there?

 

[allison443]

Interesting article! To an extent, I agree w/ what the people in the twitter campaign are saying.

W/ that in mind, here's another photo of Michael Brown that showed up in my Facebook feed this morning that illustrates the above point. I don't know if the link will work or not...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...170332.-2207520000.1408292626.&type=3&theater

If it doesn't work, it's a photo of Brown w/ a gun in his hand pointed at the camera, a wad of money in his mouth, & a bottle of alcohol on the table (along w/ a 2-liter of Hawaiian Punch).

I think the media sensationalizes a lot.

....

That's another issue I have w/ today's media. In the rush to get the story out, they often report false information. Remember Sandy Hook? And, in this case, all this inaccurate information does is escalate an already tense & volatile situation.

That is not a photos of Michael Brown. The post you linked contains a link to the photo on a news site clearly showing it is a different person.
Ironic you are complaining about the media reporting false information!! I mean, did you even read the post before linking it here?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The HuffPost article says the Feds are doing it because the family requested it... maybe they want a a third in addition to the Feds, can't hurt at this point and maybe it will be the "tie-breaker"...

The original report didn't mention how many times he was shot?
Ummmmm....

 

[OurBigTrip]

*hypothetical scenario pending evidence

Given that Mr Brown just robbed a store, he had every reason to be paranoid of the officer and a lot to lose if he were arrested. He was a supposedly nice boy starting college on Monday. It is fair to presume that he had a real reason to fear the cops this day. So it is plausible that he could have been the aggressor in some version of the scenario that ultimately ended his life.

You know, early on in this thread, there was a long discussion regarding how to react when stopped by the police. There was one poster in particular that was apparently offended by the notion that it's better, when confronted by the police, to be polite, be respectful and follow their directions. Being rude, disrespectful, refusing to follow their directions, rarely ends well, although it rarely ends in death. Even the ACLU advises that any concerns about violation of rights should be handled afterwards, not during the encounter.

Given that, if you know that you've just robbed a store, why bring attention to yourself by walking down the middle of the street? And if you're going to do that, and a police officer stops and tells you to get on the sidewalk, why not just do it? Even if you hadn't just robbed a store, why not just get out of the street and go to the sidewalk?

No one should be murdered in cold blood for simply refusing to go to the sidewalk, and if that's what happened, then the officer should be prosecuted. But seriously, had Michael Brown just moved to the sidewalk, he would most likely be alive today.

It's just sad that such a stupid decision led to a death, regardless of everything that happened in between.

 

[robinb]

Comparing the Colorado shooter to Michael Brown is like comparing the proverbial apples & oranges. And actually does a disservice to Michael Brown.

The Colorado shooter surrendered, right? And I also believe that had he resisted arrest, made any kind of move toward his gun, or made any kind of move at all, he would have been shot & killed on the spot.

When I went to twitter to check out the hashtag #iftheygunnedmedown, I saw an interesting screenshot (from a TV news program) of Holmes's geeky yearbook photo with the words "Shooter was Science Genius" (or something like that) compared to a "gangster" type photo of Brown.

 

[OurBigTrip]

When I went to twitter to check out the hashtag #iftheygunnedmedown, I saw an interesting screenshot (from a TV news program) of Holmes's geeky yearbook photo with the words "Shooter was Science Genius" (or something like that) compared to a "gangster" type photo of Brown.

It depends on what was available. Michael Brown had lots of photos of himself out there, perhaps the Colorado shooter didn't. Not everyone puts lots of photos of themselves out in public.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

When I went to twitter to check out the hashtag #iftheygunnedmedown, I saw an interesting screenshot (from a TV news program) of Holmes's geeky yearbook photo with the words "Shooter was Science Genius" (or something like that) compared to a "gangster" type photo of Brown.

It depends on what was available. Michael Brown had lots of photos of himself out there, perhaps the Colorado shooter didn't. Not everyone puts lots of photos of themselves out in public.

Sometimes a yearbook photo is the quickest way to get a picture as you get those without much trouble.

But even quicker is a public profile on Facebook.

Yearbook= you in your best light
Facebook=how you show yourself to the world

So where did the media get Mike Brown's picture?

 

[brunette8706]

I suspect someone has a video clip of what transpired in broad daylight. In this day and age everyone is taping everything. I think they are afraid to come forth or won't come forth.

 

[Anchored]

How about this stranger to Mike Brown who was tweeting while it happened?
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/natio...-brown-shooting-ferguson-mo-article-1.1905189

Doesn't know the cop, the kid, that looting or riots would erupt. NOTHING.

"The man recounts hearing at least seven different gunshots. When asked by a friend why the police shot Brown, he replied, “no reason! He was running!”"

I swear people just want this black kid to be guilty no matter what. Like you just can't accept that an officer can get mad and shoot knowing he won't face any charges.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

No, because even Sadam Hussein got a fair trial. There is no reason to KILL an unarmed kid, even if they pulled back/resisted arrest, refused to get out of the street, or committed petty theft. None of these are punishable IN AMERICA by public execution by gunfire. Even the Colorado theater shooter was apprehended not killed. And he was armed and dangerous.

They could have used their taser, or let him keep running (as many many witnesses have affirmed he was doing when he was shot in the back)

False.


Now, there may or may not be justification to this particular shooting of an unarmed man. But, the blanket statement that there is never a reason to shoot an unarmed man is just plain false.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I swear people just want this black kid to be guilty no matter what. Like you just can't accept that an officer can get mad and shoot knowing he won't face any charges.

Completely baseless accusation. There is a huge difference between waiting for all of the evidence to be presented before forming a conclusion and wanting the dead man to be guilty no matter what.

 

[Wendy31]

That is not a photos of Michael Brown. The post you linked contains a link to the photo on a news site clearly showing it is a different person.
Ironic you are complaining about the media reporting false information!! I mean, did you even read the post before linking it here?

The photo was in my FB feed this morning because one of my FB friends had "liked" it. I have no clue who the person is who actually posted the photo. When I clicked on the photo, I didn't read all the comments that went w/ the photo. Is that where the link was? Because I'm still not seeing it.

I posted the link to the FB photo to illustrate the #iftheygunnedmedown twitter campaign.

I don't care how Brown dressed or what he looked like. It doesn't change my opinion of him or the situation.

And, yes, I do think that the media, in their rush to get the story out, often publishes inaccurate information/details in a sensationalized way.

When I went to twitter to check out the hashtag #iftheygunnedmedown, I saw an interesting screenshot (from a TV news program) of Holmes's geeky yearbook photo with the words "Shooter was Science Genius" (or something like that) compared to a "gangster" type photo of Brown.

It's interesting the photos they choose to use in these situations, & then these photos become the "faces" for the names that go w/ the stories.

Most of the time, the white guys are portrayed to be geeky nerds while the black guys are portrayed to be thugs.

(Incidentally, DH has a photo of me shooting at a zombie poster at a gun range that can be used #iftheygunnedmedown.)

 

[nugov2]

How about this stranger to Mike Brown who was tweeting while it happened?
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/natio...-brown-shooting-ferguson-mo-article-1.1905189

Doesn't know the cop, the kid, that looting or riots would erupt. NOTHING.

"The man recounts hearing at least seven different gunshots. When asked by a friend why the police shot Brown, he replied, “no reason! He was running!”"

I swear people just want this black kid to be guilty no matter what. Like you just can't accept that an officer can get mad and shoot knowing he won't face any charges.

Actually I think it is you who wants the cop to be guilty no matter what just because he was white and shot a black kid.

I want the officer to be prosecuted if he did something wrong and spend his life in jail and that still won't make up for taking someones life. I also want people to stop making this about racism. I want the Al Sharptons of the world to stop taking advantage of their own race and to stop driving a wedge between people. It is disgusting and sad that they create so many problems all while making tons of money taking advantage of the people they claim to be protecting. I cannot believe that people do not see him for what he is.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Actually I think it is you who wants the cop to be guilty no matter what just because he was white and shot a black kid.

I want the officer to be prosecuted if he did something wrong and spend his life in jail and that still won't make up for taking someones life. I also want people to stop making this about racism. I want the Al Sharptons of the world to stop taking advantage of their own race and to stop driving a wedge between people. It is disgusting and sad that they create so many problems all while making tons of money taking advantage of the people they claim to be protecting. I cannot believe that people do not see him for what he is.

Very well said, and I agree.

I was watching "Meet the Press" this morning, and one of panelists stated that blacks comprise 13% of the population, 50% of the murder victims, and that 90% of those murders are committed by another black person. He couldn't figure out why so little national attention is focused on those stats. And why there weren't marches and protests in Chicago, where I believe he said there were 26 shootings this weekend.

 

[nugov2]

Very well said, and I agree.

I was watching "Meet the Press" this morning, and one of panelists stated that blacks comprise 13% of the population, 50% of the murder victims, and that 90% of those murders are committed by another black person. He couldn't figure out why so little national attention is focused on those stats. And why there weren't marches and protests in Chicago, where I believe he said there were 26 shootings this weekend.

OT, but I live outside chicago and sadly death is a constant on our local news. It is sad and heartbreaking and in those cases it is so often an innocent child at a sleepover or a child playing outside who gets hit by a stray bullet. So awful to live in an area where just sitting near a window or wall could lead to your death. I don't know what the answer is, but I can't see how much longer the situation in Chicago can go on.

 

[brunette8706]

They are saying that the perpetrator was making "gang signs" as he was part of a gang? Click in link arrow halfway down and click on gang pics.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Up...shooting-What-s-known-now-about-Michael-Brown