How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[gottaluvPluto]

I seem to recall the "kid" being > 6 feet tall and 220 or so...quite the feat for the officer,from a sitting position inside a limited space, to choke and pull him into the car, wouldn't you think?

But when the gov himself says be damned with facts (vigorous prosecution!) then facts be damned!

We really know nothing and too many people are reckless with "news" these days.

The lynch mob doesn't care about facts. The way this case is being treated differently than the case in Salt Lake City is astonishing. Salt Lake City will not release any information and they said it could take months to figure out what happened; and they have a video!!!

The people protesting (even peaceful protestors) don't care about facts because if they did they would wait to march until all information is out.

What is going on in Ferguson is a lynching.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

A nice story for a change of something positive the community is trying to do for its citizens.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5696342


Apologies again for the mobile link.

 

[Luvchefmic]

A nice story for a change of something positive the community is trying to do for its citizens.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5696342


Apologies again for the mobile link.

Yes very nice, makes us remember there is more good in this world than not. Something that is too easy to forget. Thanks for posting it

 

[EPCOTatNight]

I'm really trying to keep an open mind here but don't understand " And statistics indicate the consequences are more likely to be more severe than they are for white kids charged with the same crimes. None of this should be earth shattering news".

News to me: so you're saying 2 kids one white one black both age 17 no priors same economic class caught breaking the law, same crime ( whatever crime you want to go with ) both found guilty in a court of law, white kid gets off easier than the black kid ?

As far as the charts you can interpret as 4 times more likely to be in possession of marijuana, 12 times more likely to have committed the offense and has been found guilty, and so on.

Again just my opinion but it all sounds like excuses. If I believed all this and I was black I would feel like this is how my family my children my loved ones are perceived in this country..damn we will prove them wrong. Just like Italians had to prove they weren't the stereotypical mobster, gangster. Just like the Irish no one wanted to hire and they were all labeled drunks. Every culture had to fight hard odds to make it.

Lol! The Italian mobster stereotype is only in a small percentage of the country. Same for the Irish. Not many mobsters in Louisiana. But, black people have these issues all over the world. Black soccer players get bananas thrown at them, etc.... It's NOT excuses. It's oppression. It's so bad that Blacks hate other blacks based on skin color. There is a perception that the lighter you are, the prettier you are. The straighter your hair is, the "better" it is. So if an Italian, an Irishman, and a black man all applied for a job, do you honestly believe that the black guy would be at the top of the list?
How about if the police stopped all 3, who's more likely to get arrested or harmed? Also, how many Irishman were killed because people thought they were drunks?

The problem I've seen and I could be way off is the interaction after being stopped. From those I've witnessed being stopped it seems when a white kid is stopped the majority(not all) of these are genuinly apologetic and answer questions with "yes sir" or "no sir". While the opposite for blacks, a majority(again not all) seem to right off the bat give an officer an attitude with "what you stopping me for" or "I haven't done anything" just go back in this thread and you'll see the differences of how many react to being stopped. I'll question an officer but Respectfully. I was always told you can't point a finger at everyone else without four of them pointing back at you.

I wholeheartedly disagree. From my experience, whites are more likely to "speak up" in most cases. I have seen countless videos of white people questioning and even cursing police during all types of interactions with police. The problem is that black people are viewed as a threat. 2 black men are killed by police every week in America, yet white males are their biggest threat. Cops are killed mostly by white men.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Here's one of the biggest problems with the act of the speculating what happened in this incident. People tend to assume that the persons involved would behave in a manner similar to what we think we'd do in those same circumstances. They want to project themselves into the situation. The problem is that there are a heck of a lot of people in this world that don't think/act/react like WE do. What makes "sense" to do to me, I cannot assume would be true for you or others. It "doesn't make sense" to use Heroin. It "doesn't make sense" to gamble your paycheck away. It "doesn't make sense" to cheat on your spouse.

Just because one can't envision themselves reacting to the "fight" response instead of "flight" during the adrenalin after being shot once, doesn't mean others wouldn't do the opposite. Ditto for a the case when we think about if a cop, after a physical assault where we think the person tried to get our gun, might over react and use unnecessary force after the person decided to try and leave the scene.

A poster on another forum I'm on told a story a few months back abou catching an intruder in his house. The intruder was calm, almost polite. At some point though, the intruder took a step toward the homeowner & that's when the homeowner raised his gun.

Instead of backing down, the intruder got belligerent. He started shouting obscenities and saying things like, "What, you're gonna shoot me now!? Go for it!". And he kept advancing on the homeowner to the point he was sure he'd have to shoot.

He eventually talked the guy into leaving and then he called the police. Most of the responders to the thread said they would have never let the intruder get the close (at one point, he was no more than 3 feet from the gun barrel).

Bottom line, you just never know what someone's going to do.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Lol! The Italian mobster stereotype is only in a small percentage of the country. Same for the Irish. Not many mobsters in Louisiana. But, black people have these issues all over the world. Black soccer players get bananas thrown at them, etc.... It's NOT excuses. It's oppression. It's so bad that Blacks hate other blacks based on skin color. There is a perception that the lighter you are, the prettier you are. The straighter your hair is, the "better" it is. So if an Italian, an Irishman, and a black man all applied for a job, do you honestly believe that the black guy would be at the top of the list?
How about if the police stopped all 3, who's more likely to get arrested or harmed? Also, how many Irishman were killed because people thought they were drunks?


I wholeheartedly disagree. From my experience, whites are more likely to "speak up" in most cases. I have seen countless videos of white people questioning and even cursing police during all types of interactions with police. The problem is that black people are viewed as a threat. 2 black men are killed by police every week in America, yet white males are their biggest threat. Cops are killed mostly by white men.

What have white males had to overcome? How about diversity programs? I have been told flat out I was the best candidate for a job, but I didn't fit the company's diversity goals.

Oh, and the discrimination among various shades of black has been going on in Africa longer than any white man has even known about the existence of Africa.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

A nice story for a change of something positive the community is trying to do for its citizens.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5696342


Apologies again for the mobile link.

Saw also the STL Rams have invited the 3 local HS football teams to use their practice facilities

 

[EPCOTatNight]

What have white males had to overcome? How about diversity programs? I have been told flat out I was the best candidate for a job, but I didn't fit the company's diversity goals.

Oh, and the discrimination among various shades of black has been going on in Africa longer than any white man has even known about the existence of Africa.

How often has that happened? Have you been repeatedly denied jobs because you were white? Now, imagine how all of those black people that STILL get passed over for jobs feel. Imagine what it's like to be in Ferguson and not be able to protect and serve the very place that you grew up in. Majority black community with a majority white police force. And no, it was not only whites that applied.

 

[Luvchefmic]

You are missing my point when I used the example of the Italians and the Irish. I am not talking NOW, I am talking historically. Yes many cultures did have to overcome very hard obstacles to make something of themselves. Why can't other groups do the same? Yes affirmative action is still very much in play. You are very wrong.

 

[luvsJack]

The problem I've seen and I could be way off is the interaction after being stopped. From those I've witnessed being stopped it seems when a white kid is stopped the majority(not all) of these are genuinly apologetic and answer questions with "yes sir" or "no sir". While the opposite for blacks, a majority(again not all) seem to right off the bat give an officer an attitude with "what you stopping me for" or "I haven't done anything" just go back in this thread and you'll see the differences of how many react to being stopped. I'll question an officer but Respectfully. I was always told you can't point a finger at everyone else without four of them pointing back at you.

Not always the case. I can't answer as a black youth, but I can relate from my two sons' experiences being stopped.

When Older DS has been pulled over, he has flat out told the officers that he was not stopped because of the tail light or the blinker or whatever, but because he had an out of state tag. The officers would end up agreeing with him and send him on his way. After pulling him over due to an out of state tag on a highway that is known to be the drug route coming out of TX and LA, he never got searched.

Younger DS and his friend would get pulled over, and "yes sir" and "no sir" till their head's fell off and they were searched every single time. And always asked "what are you doing" or "where are you going" and when they told them what they were doing or where they were going, they were accused of lying. Once they couldn't get a rise out of the boys, they sent them on their way.

I used to think it was all in something younger ds would say or do, until older ds was with them one night. He backed up every word his brother told me. He said very plainly that he saw a definite difference in the way they were treated.

Younger ds's friend said that he was used to it, that's the way it always was when he was in a vehicle that was pulled over. After ds and he stopped hanging out together so much, ds still got pulled over occasionally, but never treated in the same manner as he was when his black friend was with him.

If, at any time, either boy had gotten a smart mouth with the officers or said something out of frustration, I am sure things would have escalated.

Both of my sons have been taught to respect the uniform. And both do. They were still treated differently due to who was in the car with them.




Teaching respect for the law and the uniform is not a "white thing". Black parents teach the same lessons and yet their teen boys are still treated differently.


Equal numbers of youth in both races use pot. But yet more black youths are arrested for it than whites. Its because its found more often. If they aren't searching the whites then they aren't finding it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

How often has that happened? Have you been repeatedly denied jobs because you were white? Now, imagine how all of those black people that STILL get passed over for jobs feel. Imagine what it's like to be in Ferguson and not be able to protect and serve the very place that you grew up in. Majority black community with a majority white police force. And no, it was not only whites that applied.

What, so because it's happened to me less frequently it's "okay"?

If I were a black man & could prove discrimination, I could sue. As a white man, I have zero legal recourse in exactly the same scenario. ZERO. It's even legal to discriminate against me in favor of an East Asian despite the fact they're becoming the dominate race.

And how is legal discrimination against the white race supposed to make racism go away. If anything, it only encourages whites to be discriminatory toward blacks in retaliation.

 

[nugov2]

The problem I've seen and I could be way off is the interaction after being stopped. From those I've witnessed being stopped it seems when a white kid is stopped the majority(not all) of these are genuinly apologetic and answer questions with "yes sir" or "no sir". While the opposite for blacks, a majority(again not all) seem to right off the bat give an officer an attitude with "what you stopping me for" or "I haven't done anything" just go back in this thread and you'll see the differences of how many react to being stopped. I'll question an officer but Respectfully. I was always told you can't point a finger at everyone else without four of them pointing back at you.

This!!! My neighbors who are both African American PO officers have actually made almost this identical statement(well not both of them just the husband who was talking about it one day). He was talking about his job and stating how upsetting it is to see the African American community in poor neighborhoods as their own worst enemy. That they are raised that the world is out to get them, police are out to get them even African American officers(he says as a PO him and his wife are often accused of being traitors) and approach things with such a chip on their shoulder and the attitude that nobody is going to tell them what to do that they make minor situations into major ones and it just starts a downward spiral. We live in an in a upper middle class neighborhood outside of Chicago, but they both work in the inner city in some rough neighborhoods, so I'd say he has a pretty good perspective. I'm not saying that their isn't profiling making them more likely to be stopped, but white people are also profiled by the African American community. If a white person is killed by a black person it is almost never a hate crime, but turn it around and it is always a racist act.

 

[Arielle22]

What, so because it's happened to me less frequently it's "okay"?

If I were a black man & could prove discrimination, I could sue. As a white man, I have zero legal recourse in exactly the same scenario. ZERO. It's even legal to discriminate against me in favor of an East Asian despite the fact they're becoming the dominate race.

And how is legal discrimination against the white race supposed to make racism go away. If anything, it only encourages whites to be discriminatory toward blacks in retaliation.

GUMBO, Federal law prohibits discrimination based on race and gender. So being passed over because you are a white male would be illegal. Of course, proving that was why it happened is always tough (just like when it happens to other races).

 

[Colleen27]

I'm really trying to keep an open mind here but don't understand " And statistics indicate the consequences are more likely to be more severe than they are for white kids charged with the same crimes. None of this should be earth shattering news".

News to me: so you're saying 2 kids one white one black both age 17 no priors same economic class caught breaking the law, same crime ( whatever crime you want to go with ) both found guilty in a court of law, white kid gets off easier than the black kid ?

As far as the charts you can interpret as 4 times more likely to be in possession of marijuana, 12 times more likely to have committed the offense and has been found guilty, and so on.

Again just my opinion but it all sounds like excuses. If I believed all this and I was black I would feel like this is how my family my children my loved ones are perceived in this country..damn we will prove them wrong. Just like Italians had to prove they weren't the stereotypical mobster, gangster. Just like the Irish no one wanted to hire and they were all labeled drunks. Every culture had to fight hard odds to make it.

Yes, I'm saying exactly that. Statistics bear it out, and I've seen it play out first hand. Two 17yo kids, each arrested for carrying a similar amount of pot on their persons. They were friends attending the same party that was broken up by police. Each kid had a couple of pre-rolled joints in his cigarette pack. White kid is charged with simple possession and gets off with a fine and 6 months probation (non-reporting so it doesn't interfere with said child's active academic life and plans to go to college) under a program that will "erase" a first offense at the successful completion of the probation period. Prosecutor on the black kid's case decides that pre-rolled joints are "packaged for sale" and charges the kid with possession with intent, a more serious offense than personal use possession and one that renders the case ineligible for the first-offense forgiveness program. He is sentenced to 90 days in jail, costing him the last months of his senior year and delaying his graduation, and a year's probation.

The "hard odds" the Irish and Italian Americans faced in times of heavy immigration from those nations was also racism, pure and simple. Making it a "personal responsibility" issue is to essentially embrace structural racism - you're saying that it is okay that the system is biased against certain groups and that those groups should simply hold themselves to a higher standard in hopes of someday being perceived as equal.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Saw also the STL Rams have invited the 3 local HS football teams to use their practice facilities

Nice.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Amazing what you can find with a little searching. Missouri again re-reverse discrimination. Interesting:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Sgt. D...0E8732BF4BE58AF&form=CONBNT&conlogo=CT3210127

 

[Luvchefmic]

Yes, I'm saying exactly that. Statistics bear it out, and I've seen it play out first hand. Two 17yo kids, each arrested for carrying a similar amount of pot on their persons. They were friends attending the same party that was broken up by police. Each kid had a couple of pre-rolled joints in his cigarette pack. White kid is charged with simple possession and gets off with a fine and 6 months probation (non-reporting so it doesn't interfere with said child's active academic life and plans to go to college) under a program that will "erase" a first offense at the successful completion of the probation period. Prosecutor on the black kid's case decides that pre-rolled joints are "packaged for sale" and charges the kid with possession with intent, a more serious offense than personal use possession and one that renders the case ineligible for the first-offense forgiveness program. He is sentenced to 90 days in jail, costing him the last months of his senior year and delaying his graduation, and a year's probation.

The "hard odds" the Irish and Italian Americans faced in times of heavy immigration from those nations was also racism, pure and simple. Making it a "personal responsibility" issue is to essentially embrace structural racism - you're saying that it is okay that the system is biased against certain groups and that those groups should simply hold themselves to a higher standard in hopes of someday being perceived as equal.

We can play she said he said all day long. So because you claim to have seen it play out first hand that's it case closed. You're right I'm wrong. Sorry I have lived on this earth almost 60 years. I have seen much too.

As far as when & how we all got here as immigrants, I am in no way saying it's okay that the system is biased against certain groups at certain times. Ever, but the reality is it happens.

When does it end though, holding unto " We are treated so badly" mentality ? When does self responsibility take over and yes I am going back to the real problem is the family. Be part of the problem or part of the solution.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

GUMBO, Federal law prohibits discrimination based on race and gender. So being passed over because you are a white male would be illegal. Of course, proving that was why it happened is always tough (just like when it happens to other races).

There are countless legal exceptions made, including government contracts themselves. Just as an example - For the 2nd time in my life, I'm working for a "disadvantaged business". We receive special privileges because the owned is female and 1/32nd Cherokee.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

How often has that happened? Have you been repeatedly denied jobs because you were white? Now, imagine how all of those black people that STILL get passed over for jobs feel. Imagine what it's like to be in Ferguson and not be able to protect and serve the very place that you grew up in. Majority black community with a majority white police force. And no, it was not only whites that applied.

It was discussed upthread why the PD is mostly white.
Lack of applicants (cops are bad and out to get them).
Of those with any remote interest in applying, lack of qualifications and/or criminal record disqualifies them.

So in the case of Ferguson, it is NOT the case of 2 equally qualified and eligible candidates applying for one slot and the white guy always gets it over the black guy.

The problem is much deeper than that for the Ferguson PD and it is not for lack of trying.

And additionally, Affirmative action is alive and well and white male candidates are passed over for minorities to meet a quota. I'm sure not many minorities hearts bleed for white males, but the law does indeed allow legal discrimination against white males in order to ensure that education institutions and certain jobs are diversified. Diversity isn't a bad thing. But a Federal Law REQUIRING discrimination if quotas are not met is. Quotas are met by easing standards for minority applicants so that they get in above a white make candidate with a better application.

Now put into a mind site that transcends generations and you have a recipe for being unsuccessful.

I would be interested in the demographics of the population of Ferguson--high school graduation rates, college or vocational school acceptance rates followed by graduation rates and the employment rates.

As someone posted earlier if seems other minorities do not have the same difficulties breaking the cycle. It is curious of what is so different amongst other minorities and African Americans. What stops a 10th grade black male from studying for a test to get a good grade in a class?

 

[JanaDee]

GUMBO, Federal law prohibits discrimination based on race and gender. So being passed over because you are a white male would be illegal. Of course, proving that was why it happened is always tough (just like when it happens to other races).

That's funny, isn't Affirmative Action a federal law?