how does dvc compare?

[JungleCruiser]

I am just curious as to how the DVC clubs compare to other timeshares like RCI..

 

[tjkraz]

Annual dues are more expensive than most timeshares. But if you want to stay on Disney property and have access to WDW transportation, charging priviledges on your room key, access to perks like Extra Magic Hour and so forth, there really aren't any other options available.

Most would agree that the "Disney" name also carries a certain expectation for customer service and quality of accommodation. Even though DVC is the timeshare unit, the DVC resorts cater to cash guests as well, meaning that it's very much in Disney's interest to ensure that the DVC resorts are run in the same manner as cash-only resorts.

 

[4travelers]

Disney opens up very few weeks to interval members so getting into a Disney resort via a timeshare trade is like hitting the lottery. GOOD LUCK!

We are still on the fence about buying into DVC so this advice comes from just my research and experience from staying at DVC.

DVC is more expensive in general. The studios are barely more than nice hotel rooms and you have to pay for the washer/dryers to boot. The one bedrooms don't even give two real beds. And the pull-out couches are a very poor excuse for a bed. The rooms are not designed for large families, they are barely designed for small families. At our DVC sales presentation the sales person actually said Disney didn't mind if we brought our own sleepingbags but Disney doesn't provide cots! Could you imagine sleeping on the floor while spending about $242 a night?

The pluses are... and they are BIG ONES... is DVC's location and resale value. You can't beat staying on Disney, do it once and you'll be trying to justify a purchase like I am. And I have found no other timeshare that holds its value like DVC. I think DVC owners who purchased early are actually making money on their resales (not counting the maintenance fees). Most timeshares are only worth about 1/2 their value on the resale market. And I truly believe DVC's new resort point value will only go up.

 

[tjkraz]

Two nit-pics...

The studios are barely more than nice hotel rooms and you have to pay for the washer/dryers to boot.

Not true. Use of washer / dryer is free to studio guests. Although they are shared facilities--no private W/D in Studio rooms.

And the pull-out couches are a very poor excuse for a bed.

You should check-out the sofabeds in the new Saratoga Springs units. They are a VAST improvement over the old-style sofabeds with the nasty bar in the middle of your back. These redesigned sofabeds have been spotted in some OKW and BWV units. All DVCs will certainly have the improved sofabeds in time...rehabs permitting.

 

[rayelias]

DVC is more expensive in general. The studios are barely more than nice hotel rooms and you have to pay for the washer/dryers to boot. The one bedrooms don't even give two real beds. And the pull-out couches are a very poor excuse for a bed. The rooms are not designed for large families, they are barely designed for small families. At our DVC sales presentation the sales person actually said Disney didn't mind if we brought our own sleepingbags but Disney doesn't provide cots! Could you imagine sleeping on the floor while spending about $242 a night?

Just to clarify a few points...

Studios are considerably larger than other Disney hotel rooms. Washer/dryers are free to use. Studios have to share them, but they're free.

The pull out couches (the new ones), I have heard from MANY different people, are some of the most comfortable pull outs they've ever been on.

The studios are not designed for more than 4 people (plus one infant). If you need more space, simply reserve a larger room (2-3 BR). I've always stayed in a studio, so I can't comment on the 1BR's, but the beds are very large and very comfortable.

With DVC, you're not locked into any "week" or "time". Your vacation dates change every year? - no problem!

With DVC, you're not spending $242 a night. However, if you're NOT a member, you WILL be paying that to stay in a studio. That's what Disney charges and that's what they get. Based on my calculations, over the life of my purchase (including all dues, annual increases, and original purhase price), I'll be paying the equivalent of about $78 a night to stay on property. I'm paying that in 2005 and I'll be paying that same amount 30+ years from now, when Disney will probably be charging well in excess of $1000 a night for this room.

You are correct about the prices going up. I don't know of any other timeshare that this happed with. Honestly, it goes against all my logic, and I can guarantee, at some point when the time left on the contracts gets smaller and smaller this trend will reverse. FYI, I believe the people who originally bought in the late 90's paid about $56. To purchase through Disney, you're paying $89 a point (with incentives). I paid $73 for my OKW resale just 3 months ago, and I'm 99% sure if I wanted to get out now, I can get out for at LEAST what I paid for it. So, my vacations so far would be free (except for annual dues - which is about $4 a point). Using those calculations, my room would have cost me a mere $32 a night!!! Not bad!

 

[4travelers]

OK we just got back from Beach Club villas and there was no guest laundry listed on any map or any information they gave us. Was I expected to ask? If so I feel SO stupid... spending the money for no reason.... but why not on the maps?

And I might give the "improved" sofa beds a try. But really we have two little kids so the main reason to purchase now is for BCV, SSR for when they get older. So we're facing a few years of those rotten pull-out sofas. I'm just not sure its worth it.

On the other hand my son keeps asking when we'll go back to BCV and we've only been home 2 weeks! Oh to justify ownership is so hard!

 

[tjkraz]

OK we just got back from Beach Club villas and there was no guest laundry listed on any map or any information they gave us. Was I expected to ask? If so I feel SO stupid... spending the money for no reason.... but why not on the maps?

Can't answer your map question, but I may be about to make you feel worse. I've never used the guest laundry, but I've read a number of times that the machines in question APPEAR to be coin-operated (with the slider to insert your money), but you don't actually need to put any money in the machine. Instead you just slide the mechanism in and the machine will start.

So, if you spent any money to do laundry during your stay...you probably didn't have to... Sorry.

The only explanation I can offer is that perhaps DVC feels that members should know about the perk and choose not to publicize it. Since the majority of BC/YC guests are cash guests, they probably don't want to post a sign that says "Free Laundry Facilities HERE!"

Regarding the sofabed issue, for what it's worth, young children really can't tell the difference. Besides they sleep on the bed a whole lot different that an adult. Our 4yo son got a Spiderman Ready Bed (air bed) for his birthday a couple weeks ago, and I'm sure that will be his preferred sleep accommodation for the next few years. A 1B is more than enough space for our young family of 4.

 

[dianeschlicht]

FYI the sofa beds at OKW have been changed to the new ones, and I am sure BWV and BCV will follow as they rehab. Rehab usually starts after 5 years, so BCV should be coming up before too long. Besides, if you don't want the sofa bed for the second bed, why not try OKW studios for 2 queen sized real beds. Not sure why all the negetive posturing when you are basically information hunting when you already seem to have your own ideas about that information. Not sure why guest laundrys aren't "on the map", but they are all free to guests. They look like coin op machines, but they don't take any coins. Perhaps they are not on the maps at BCV because it is shared resort with the Beach Club. I doubt it is free to regular BC guests. Maybe they don't want the BCR guests to know about the BCV free washers!

 

[Silos]

OK we just got back from Beach Club villas and there was no guest laundry listed on any map or any information they gave us. Was I expected to ask? If so I feel SO stupid... spending the money for no reason.... but why not on the maps?

And I might give the "improved" sofa beds a try. But really we have two little kids so the main reason to purchase now is for BCV, SSR for when they get older. So we're facing a few years of those rotten pull-out sofas. I'm just not sure its worth it.

On the other hand my son keeps asking when we'll go back to BCV and we've only been home 2 weeks! Oh to justify ownership is so hard!

I would like to say that I to was wondering if the DVC was worth the ownership as oppossed to just keep renting from the moderate resorts. When we went on the tour to see SSR we were impressed with the facilities but it still is a large investment. We talked about the purchase for several months and ran various scenerios to determine the break even point. What it finally came down to was that it had the Disney name and our entire family enjoys going to Disney. Also, because we can go to other hotels outside of Disney through the ownership package that to was a plus. We decided to purchase this year and have not regretted the decision at all. We are looking forward to going back to Disney.

 

[RobDoc]

I am just curious as to how the DVC clubs compare to other timeshares like RCI..

Just to clarify- RCI is not a timeshare, it is an exchange company. Individual resorts can participate in one or more exchange companies (Interval International -II- is another) which gives the member/owners of those resorts the ability to trade reservations at their resort to go other places.

With DVC we can do internal exchanges (based on the 11/7 reservation priority) for other DVC resorts and can use Buena Vista Trading Company (BVTC) to use our points for other options like WDW resorts, Disney Cruise line, Concierge Collection, Adventurer Collection and World Passport Collection.

The World Passport Collection allows us to exchange into selected resorts that participate in Interval International- allowing owners at those resorts to trade into DVC resorts. Originally, RCI was the exchange company for DVC, but that relationship ended in 1995 or 96 in favor of II.

Other have already posted some of the differences/similarities between DVC resorts and other timeshares.

Hope this helps.

 

[4travelers]

I can't seem to figure out how to do the Quote thing but Rayelias could you help me?

Can you please explain your math? I REALLY REALLY want to buy into Disney but I can't justify the price to my husband. And everyone keeps quoting per night rates of $65-$80 for owners, HOW do they get these numbers?

This is my math: If we buy 243pts at SSR, it'll be about $20,000 (not really, but just for this example). The yearly fees will run about $1000. That only gives us 1 week in a 1 bedroom each year during the times we are most likely to go, so if we take that week each year for the next 45 years it would be 315 nights. Assuming the yearly maintenance fees don't go up and we haven't paid interest to purchase our points. The total purchase and maintenace fees for 45 years is $65,000 divided by the number of nights stay (315). That's $206 per night for a one bedroom, correct?

 

[tjkraz]

This is my math: If we buy 243pts at SSR, it'll be about $20,000 (not really, but just for this example). The yearly fees will run about $1000. That only gives us 1 week in a 1 bedroom each year during the times we are most likely to go, so if we take that week each year for the next 45 years it would be 315 nights. Assuming the yearly maintenance fees don't go up and we haven't paid interest to purchase our points. The total purchase and maintenace fees for 45 years is $65,000 divided by the number of nights stay (315). That's $206 per night for a one bedroom, correct?

That's one way to look at it. Cash rates for a 1B at SSR run $400-500 per night plus 11% tax, so your savings would be considerable.

There really are just soooooo many different ways of running the numbers, and each and every one of them includes assumptions that will taint the output.

Also, I think your analysis is something of a "worst case" regarding the points usage. 45 years (actually 49) is a loooooooong time. Will you always have to travel during those same periods? Will you always need a 1B (Studio may be adequate when the kids are grown and it's just you and your spouse)? Do you really need to stay for a full week each time including those expensive weekends?

 

[4travelers]

FYI the sofa beds at OKW have been changed to the new ones, and I am sure BWV and BCV will follow as they rehab. Rehab usually starts after 5 years, so BCV should be coming up before too long. Besides, if you don't want the sofa bed for the second bed, why not try OKW studios for 2 queen sized real beds. Not sure why all the negetive posturing when you are basically information hunting when you already seem to have your own ideas about that information. Not sure why guest laundrys aren't "on the map", but they are all free to guests. They look like coin op machines, but they don't take any coins. Perhaps they are not on the maps at BCV because it is shared resort with the Beach Club. I doubt it is free to regular BC guests. Maybe they don't want the BCR guests to know about the BCV free washers!

I really do my research before ANY purchase. And I find some of the most useful information is the negative stuff. If the negatives don't bother you then the purchase is right. So when someone is comparing the RCI point based system and the DVC as a purchase, in my mind the most helpful information would be the negatives. The DVC positives are obvious other than the fantastic resale value. Most people comparing timeshares to DVC would be shocked at the DVC resale value. Of course that could all change 10 years from now.

As to the sofa beds, they bother me. Everyone has different things that bug them (some people its the towels or trash), mine is that if I use the points for a 1 bedroom I would want at least the option of 2 real queen size beds (or a queen and a bunk bed would be even better) in every resort. Wouldn't it be nice to stay in a one bedroom, put the kids to bed at 8 then sit and read in the other room without having to make your bed afterwards? And yes we're the ones sleeping on the couch because of how early our kids go to bed. Wouldn't it be nice to just leave the "living room" and go into the bedroom where the kids are already sleeping? But maybe for two couples traveling this wouldn't work, so as I said the option of all the beds in one room would be nice.

 

[Caskbill]

Can you please explain your math? I REALLY REALLY want to buy into Disney but I can't justify the price to my husband. And everyone keeps quoting per night rates of $65-$80 for owners, HOW do they get these numbers?

It's possible to get almost any number you want. For example, if you estimate dues at $4/point, you could say that a Studio at HH during adventure season and during the week is only $24 (6-points/night), or you could say that a Beach Cottage at Vero Beach on a Saturday Night during Premier season is $784 (196 points).

Your example of 243 points for a week at SSR assumes always being there during Magic Season, the 2nd highest priced season there is, and staying the weekend as well, the highest priced days of the week. It can make a considerable difference if you change any of those parameters.

The biggest thing you might be missing is the factor of inflation on the cost of dues versus inflation on the typical cash room rates.

Let's say today the cash rate for that SSR 1-B/R during Magic Season is about $450 including tax. Even at your calculation of $206/night you're saving $244 a night. But if there's 3% annual inflation, in 45 years that $450 has gone up to $1702/night

Another way to see it is this. If the villa is $450 today and you stay in it 7 days for the next 45 years, and with a 3% inflation factor, you will have paid $303,980 in cash for the villa. If you use points, at $1000/year for dues getting you those same 7 days, and your dues go up 3%/year, then after 45 years you will have paid $96,501 in dues. Add your $20,000 initial investment and your total is $116,501 over 45 years. A total savings of $187,479.

 

[WolfpackFan]

Just an observation, for what it's worth - but I find it so interesting the prospective buyers that come on here attempting to analyze the decision whether to buy or not because I remember doing the same thing. I don't know how many times I questioned whether I was doing the right thing, which resort to buy into, the issues related to 7 vs 11 month bookings, whether I'd be satisfied with a Studio, the feasibility of exchanging thru II, etc. Now looking back on it, the only regret I have is that we didn't buy sooner. We could not be happier with our purchase. We just got back from BWV and it was so amazing checking out to realize we had stayed in this fantastic resort and had to pay nothing when we checked out except for a rather large bill for the restaurants we ate at . And what is so great is the knowledge that in just four short months we'll be going to HH using our HH add-on points. Then it's time to start thinking about what to do with next years points. The great thing is this will just keep going on and on, year after year, until we're pushing those walkers up the ramp to Space Mountain . I'm not saying folks shouldn't do their analysis before purchasing, everyone's situations are different; but I just remember all of the anxiety I had over buying and it all turned out great in the end.

 

[Daitcher]

As to the sofa beds, they bother me. Everyone has different things that bug them (some people its the towels or trash), mine is that if I use the points for a 1 bedroom I would want at least the option of 2 real queen size beds (or a queen and a bunk bed would be even better) in every resort. Wouldn't it be nice to stay in a one bedroom, put the kids to bed at 8 then sit and read in the other room without having to make your bed afterwards? And yes we're the ones sleeping on the couch because of how early our kids go to bed. Wouldn't it be nice to just leave the "living room" and go into the bedroom where the kids are already sleeping? But maybe for two couples traveling this wouldn't work, so as I said the option of all the beds in one room would be nice.[/QUOTE]


Your post is right on the money IMHO. The layout and design of DVC Resort rooms is a joke. There should be at the very least a king bed and a pull out sofa in the main bedroom of the one bedroom unit. We also would have to end up on the couch. Why is it so hard to think about what parents will be doing when they travel with kids? We put our son to bed first, then we relax in the living room and out on the balcony. Is this so different than everyone else? How to you put kids to sleep in the living room when you are still up? To avoid this we end up renting two bedroom units. This is a waste of points with just the three of us. Some extra form of bedding in the master bedroom would be the way to go. I don't care if it is a pull out, roll away, fold out of the wall bed, whatever. In defense of DVC, they aren't alone with this, most timeshares are laid out very similiar to Disney. I just don't understand the logic. Thanks for your post and no you are not alone in this thinking.

DAVE

 

[ehroberts3]

My DVC agent claimed the room rates increase 8% to 10%, far beyond the national CPI around 3%. Has anyone seen the prices rise at this rate.

Also, when you calculate your cost per point or cost per room where is the lost opportunity cost for initial investment. My DVC agent did not seem to understand we can make 8% on our money after taxes. I calculated the points current cost at $12 ea. So SS is $575 in May. DVC uses 31 points on a week day and 65 on a weekend. You are better off holding your points and paying cash for the weekend. They could not explain this one to me either.

We are still on the fence on this one.

 

[4travelers]

Just an observation, for what it's worth - but I find it so interesting the prospective buyers that come on here attempting to analyze the decision whether to buy or not because I remember doing the same thing. I don't know how many times I questioned whether I was doing the right thing, which resort to buy into, the issues related to 7 vs 11 month bookings, whether I'd be satisfied with a Studio, the feasibility of exchanging thru II, etc. Now looking back on it, the only regret I have is that we didn't buy sooner. We could not be happier with our purchase.

I think its great that we have the web to share this information. I can't imagine how hard it was before the web. And yes I have to analyze this decision to the nth degree. I wish I could just buy it and be happy, because obviously most owners are very happy. If I could be paid for all the time I've put into this I think I'd have the thing paid off by now!

 

[rayelias]

My DVC agent claimed the room rates increase 8% to 10%, far beyond the national CPI around 3%. Has anyone seen the prices rise at this rate.

Also, when you calculate your cost per point or cost per room where is the lost opportunity cost for initial investment. My DVC agent did not seem to understand we can make 8% on our money after taxes. I calculated the points current cost at $12 ea. So SS is $575 in May. DVC uses 31 points on a week day and 65 on a weekend. You are better off holding your points and paying cash for the weekend. They could not explain this one to me either.

We are still on the fence on this one.

I'd LOVE to know where you can make 8% AFTER taxes!

 

[Cruelladeville]

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING AN 8% RETURN ON YOUR INVESTMENTS???? Mine are down about 3% for the first three months this year!

When DVC opened, the initial cost for points was $48, and after it opened it went to $50. By the time I joined in 1997, the cost had gone to $54, and it climbed steadily after that. Now I am no mathematician, so don't pick at my numbers, but here's how I figured out how I am doing with my DVC "investment":
270 pts X $54=$14,580 and dues of $1080(I just figured a flat $4 per yr) =$8640 (dues) + $14580=$23220 my total cost to date. Now if I sold tomorrow I could easily get $78 X 270=$21060 -$23220=$2160 total cost for 8 years of vacations=means that 7 days in a one bedroom villa for a week cost me $270! When was the last time you stayed in a one bedroom villa for $40 per night??

Since the above mentioned investment lost 1/3 when the market went bust a couple years ago, DVC actually is an even better investment than the numbers show. And how many of your investments held up during the down-turn? My Marriott can be gotten for $5500 if you shop carefully, it is $17,000 new--they are still selling them. Their units are larger, but off-property, dues somewhat lower.