Genie Service

[jhglassman]

I highly doubt it. It is a large source of revenue that costs them absolutely nothing and you may be surprised on how many people buy it and hardly use it especially 1st time visitors with small children.

I suspect hopping makes Epcot resorts more valuable as well.

 

[tjkraz]

That's probably true for some metrics, but at a corporate level the revenue from selling new DVC contracts is still huge. They want to keep building a new DVC resort every 2-4 years until 2042, when they can enter an infinite cycle of refurb-and-resell as properties expire.

I'm not saying that Disney Vacation Club is going away. But given that it's reached a critical mass where it can deliver 40k - 50k guests to the theme parks on any given day, that particular metric is not as important as it once was. (Imagine if Covid had hit in the mid-90s when DVC only had a relative handful of villas at OKW and BWV. The theme parks wouldn't have had a fraction of the guests they had in mid-2020 to early-2021 when DVC members were largely keeping things afloat.)

Yes the DVC revenue is important. But it's also less than half of what it was in pre-pandemic 2020 and DVC isn't really doing anything to change that. In the first 3 months of 2020 they averaged 157k in riviera points sales per month. Over the last 3 months they've averaged 66k. I don't think sales are awful for a mid-pandemic stage, but Disney has the ability to goose those sales at any time via prices and incentives to help increase revenue. They've chosen not to do so.

Every DVC buyer is potentially lost hotel revenue. I think the current DVC pricing stance illustrates that there ARE limits to their willingness to move guests from cash to DVC. Sure it's great to convince someone to spend $30,000 on DVC. But broader guests spending numbers suggest that person will become a lower revenue-generator in the parks long-term, including the $600-800 per night they'll no longer be spending on poly or contemporary hotel rooms.

Both DVC and cash guests have their place. But there are limits to which Disney will attempt to move people from one classification to the other. And it's not outrageous to suggest that Disney views hotel guests as a better source of long-term profit, even if it has to work harder to earn each of those guests.

 

[Judique]

Same!! We bought 10 day hoppers with plus options that never expire something like 12 years ago? maybe more. We still have 5 waterpark options left on a two VERY old tickets that were converted. We've gone to waterparks for 3 years, buying only my son's ticket. We've done two trips soley to stay at the resort and visit one waterpark. So a mistake that has turned out to be really helpful!! (I miss the days of the non-expiring ticket, I could get 3 trips out of a 10 day pass, back when I didn't own DVC and couldn't afford nice hotels I could still get Disney trips).

I bought a bunch of 10 day no expiry tickets when they discontinued them. Only one partially used so far by DD who doesn't go often. I've been getting annual passes so haven't needed to start using them, but they will get used eventually. Also bought a few annual pass vouchers, so no worries on the AP issue. I happily collected my refund for the last one. Plus, keeping a voucher in my account allows reservations.

 

[New Mouse]

I've still got many of my water park options tickets, plus guest services converted them to current ticket media for me. I've been to a water park twice in 33 years of visits. One of these days I'll use them. I have used the tickets for mini golf a couple of times.

The water parks are actually a nice break from corporate disney...for now

 

[Kickstart]

I'm not saying that Disney Vacation Club is going away. But given that it's reached a critical mass where it can deliver 40k - 50k guests to the theme parks on any given day, that particular metric is not as important as it once was. (Imagine if Covid had hit in the mid-90s when DVC only had a relative handful of villas at OKW and BWV. The theme parks wouldn't have had a fraction of the guests they had in mid-2020 to early-2021 when DVC members were largely keeping things afloat.)

Yes the DVC revenue is important. But it's also less than half of what it was in pre-pandemic 2020 and DVC isn't really doing anything to change that. In the first 3 months of 2020 they averaged 157k in riviera points sales per month. Over the last 3 months they've averaged 66k. I don't think sales are awful for a mid-pandemic stage, but Disney has the ability to goose those sales at any time via prices and incentives to help increase revenue. They've chosen not to do so.

Every DVC buyer is potentially lost hotel revenue. I think the current DVC pricing stance illustrates that there ARE limits to their willingness to move guests from cash to DVC. Sure it's great to convince someone to spend $30,000 on DVC. But broader guests spending numbers suggest that person will become a lower revenue-generator in the parks long-term, including the $600-800 per night they'll no longer be spending on poly or contemporary hotel rooms.

Both DVC and cash guests have their place. But there are limits to which Disney will attempt to move people from one classification to the other. And it's not outrageous to suggest that Disney views hotel guests as a better source of long-term profit, even if it has to work harder to earn each of those guests.

Sounds logical... but if that were true, then why has Disney canabalized whole sections of deluxe hotel resorts for DVC units?

It would seem Disney prefers "locked in" DVC income over variable hotel bookings... even at the expense of running out of hotel room inventory at peak times.

Or, did Disney make an error on converting hotel rooms to DVC rooms?

 

[Jwaire]

Or, did Disney make an error on converting hotel rooms to DVC rooms?

You know Disney did the math. They were having trouble filling some of the hotel rooms in the larger resorts. Take Wilderness Lodge, they converted 1/2 the hotel to DVC—essentially making sure most nights the hotel is completely full (park admission $$$, merchandise $$$, food $$$, additional entertainment $$$, etc.)

Would it be nice to have the room availability back on Thanksgiving week? Sure, but not at the expense of having a 1/2 empty hotel during the moderate to low seasons. And DVC now pays for a chunk of the hotel's maintenance!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Sometimes, when I'm really bored, I wonder if Disney execs would do DVC if they had to do it all over again. Probably an interesting discussion for another thread sometime also.

 

[BL2020]

We bought our first/likely last DVC last summer (resale 150 pts BLT), this new pricing has really put me off and we haven't even gotten to use our points yet. We had a trip planned for this september, but with Florida covid cases as they are, decided to cancel and bank points. We have a trip booked for our son in January and we will see how that goes. I think we may be back to big time rope dropping with the new pricing and maybe doing the add on pricing if that doesn't work. I miss the original FP, was not a fan of the FP+ having to book so far out but still prefer that over these new changes. Reserving a specific park each day is also frustrating since we liked to factor in the weather, how our feet are feeling, etc. While I'm generally an avid trip/vacation planner, Disney's changes have really reduced the magic factor in a huge way. In many ways I feel now I have less control over my vacation than before. We will give it few years but am thinking the poster with the kitchen reno idea may have a great suggestion.

 

[Chuck S]

You know Disney did the math. They were having trouble filling some of the hotel rooms in the larger resorts. Take Wilderness Lodge, they converted 1/2 the hotel to DVC—essentially making sure most nights the hotel is completely full (park admission $$$, merchandise $$$, food $$$, additional entertainment $$$, etc.)

Would it be nice to have the room availability back on Thanksgiving week? Sure, but not at the expense of having a 1/2 empty hotel during the moderate to low seasons. And DVC now pays for a chunk of the hotel's maintenance!

They converted rooms at Wilderness Lodge? I thought both DVC wings were new constructions specifically for DVC

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

They converted rooms at Wilderness Lodge? I thought both DVC wings were new constructions specifically for DVC

Copper creek is converted Wilderness Lodge rooms.

 

[Chuck S]

Copper creek is converted Wilderness Lodge rooms.

Oh, I thought it was new construction.

 

[WiscoDisneyGirl]

Let’s have the conversation here instead of the AP coming back thread.

I am excited for it- but I guess supply and demand will have some sort of cap on this right. What if 75% of people upgrade. Will we all be waiting in the lightening lane?

 

[Sandisw]

I am excited for it- but I guess supply and demand will have some sort of cap on this right. What if 75% of people upgrade. Will we all be waiting in the lightening lane?

I don’t see how it’s going to be any different than when FP+ was in effect In terms of the waits in the LL.

With that being free, and people getting to schedule 3 ahead of time, it would seem that this, even if 75% buy, is still lower than those that took advantage of FP.

I have never seen numbers of what %of guests used FP, but it seems like less would use it as a park option.

I think the difference may be peoples expectations that LL will provide less of a wait than FP did.

 

[New Mouse]

I don’t see how it’s going to be any different than when FP+ was in effect In terms of the waits in the LL.

With that being free, and people getting to schedule 3 ahead of time, it would seem that this, even if 75% buy, is still lower than those that took advantage of FP.

I have never seen numbers of what %of guests used FP, but it seems like less would use it as a park option.

I think the difference may be peoples expectations that LL will provide less of a wait than FP did.

It depends how they limit quantities and then the ratio they use. My guess is they sell more fp and let a higher ratio in hence shorter or similar lines.

 

[Sandisw]

It depends how they limit quantities and then the ratio they use. My guess is they sell more fp and let a higher ratio in hence shorter or similar lines.

We won’t know until it starts but I cant Imagine a scenario where it will be more crowded than the FP system was…which always worked well for us for the passes we were able to get.

Honestly, I think there Is a good chance it will be better.

 

[zavandor]

I am excited for it- but I guess supply and demand will have some sort of cap on this right. What if 75% of people upgrade. Will we all be waiting in the lightening lane?

Completely unknown at this point.
At some points, 80% of capacity was given to FP+ users, especially after a downtime and an excess of FP+ returners ( source: easywdw).

According to disneytouristblog in DLR adoption for MaxPass was around 40%. Jafar costs a comparable amount (Maxpass started at $15 and went to $20 pre closure) but is a bit worst, because it includes fewer attractions (DLR + DCA have almost the same amount of rides of the 4 WDW parks) and doesn't include the two headliners in each park. On one side this might cause lower adoption, on another at WDW there is a higher percentage of one time visitors, more likely to splurge on a paid upgrade.

Putting the two together, if adoption is still around 40% and LL users are given highest priority, who pays for it should get fast boarding and standby lines should move a bit quicker than pre closure. If adoption is higher, standby will grind to a halt and there will be a modest wait in the LL line.

For the individual attraction pass, in Paris it is priced very high for what are mostly old attractions. There is no new super headliner like FoP or RotR. The Premier Acces (how it's called there) is currently a failure, with very few tickets sold even day. I can see it being different in WDW.

 

[WiscoDisneyGirl]

i love seeing all he different opinions. i really can not wait to use it for myself. i wonder when we can access the app?

 

[kilik64]

I don’t see how it’s going to be any different than when FP+ was in effect In terms of the waits in the LL.

I think the difference may be peoples expectations that LL will provide less of a wait than FP did.

Honestly, I think there Is a good chance it will be better.

I agree, i think the g+ rides we be almost exactly like those rides were with fp+ prior in terms of waits. Different between when and how you get a pass for being able to use the LL. Also agree that this could end up being really good. The genie part of the whole thing sounds like it'd be annoying to me, but will wait and see on that bit.

I think the rides with specific cost to get a pass for and the limit of 2 per day, means those rides should/could have a better standby wait time or at least similar to how it is now with no FP at all. I think the amount of people who will buy those is limited, even if they allow for the same amount of numbers of actual passes that can be bought. Its a very possible double edged sword they gotta deal with. Sell/allow too many and people who paid $20 bucks to ride 7DMT and still have to wait 30+ mins will be pissed. I think they limit those more than people think.

 

[tjkraz]

We won’t know until it starts but I cant Imagine a scenario where it will be more crowded than the FP system was…which always worked well for us for the passes we were able to get.

Honestly, I think there Is a good chance it will be better.

Amount of time spent in the LL queue will probably be shorter than with FP. But return times are a complete uncertainty, and definitely less efficient than FP+ where you could easily schedule all return times right in a row.

Standby times will be shorter than with FP+, those who elect not to pay for Genie+ lose the benefit of those three FP+ rides which guaranteed almost zero wait time.

Standby time will definitely be longer than the last 14 months when there has been no FastPass. G+ / LL will soon bring back the line cutters which extend standby waits, combined with the inevitable growth of crowds in the parks.

 

[tjkraz]

Putting the two together, if adoption is still around 40% and LL users are given highest priority, who pays for it should get fast boarding and standby lines should move a bit quicker than pre closure. If adoption is higher, standby will grind to a halt and there will be a modest wait in the LL line.

Full disclosure: we used MaxPass exactly once and that experience may or may not be typical. That was on a weekday in late April (several weeks after Easter) when I assumed the parks would be relatively quiet. Instead the parks were both unexpectedly busy, but not holiday / summer busy for Disneyland.

Upon arrival in the park (9:30-ish) we got a pass for Incredicoaster which was about an hour away. After that we got passes for Radiator Springs racers for which the return time was 4 hours away and then Mission Breakout with a 3.5 hour wait.

After that I know we did Space Mountain at DL, but am uncertain about the return lag. Nor do I remember any specifics about other attractions. We did not ride Indiana Jones, presumably because they had run out of passes for the day.

In my mind there are two things which seem inevitable about Genie+:

1) The days of scheduling 3 FastPasses in a nice, neat block are gone. Return times could be hours down the road, with passes exhausted for some rides if you don't act quickly enough. And don't get me started on the 7am start time.

If you like taking mid-afternoon breaks, arriving to the parks later in the day or (heaven forbid) not even arriving until evening hours, don't expect G+ to work well. In fact, unless you plan to spend the entire day in the park, it's probably not worth the $15 fee. Enjoy the standby lines!

2) Disney has full control over how this plays out via their load balancing. Regardless of what percent of guests pay for G+, they can allocate more or less ride capacity to make the overall experience better or worse. When attempt to secure a BTMR pass at 10am, it's entirely up to Disney to decide if the next available time is at 11:30am, noon, 1pm, etc. They could choose to position Genie+ as an excellent experience to drive sales, but that's done at the expense of the non-buyers who face less capacity and longer lines.

I'm morbidly curious to see how this plays out in the coming months. Since the debut of FastPass+ there have been people loudly opposed to the 60-day planning aspect. Genie+ seems aimed at "solving" that problem. It leaves me wondering if FP+ detractors were actually in the majority and how they will feel about daily 7am wake ups and uncertain ride return times. Ignoring cost, personally I'm unclear how this does anything to improve my disney theme park experience.