how does disney dvc compare to "other" time share companies??

[dis2cruise]

I would figure disney is very good but just curious

 

[Chuck S]

It depends upon what you want out of your timeshare. DVC compares favorably in general, just like the other high-end companies (Marriott, Hilton, etc.)

The value of any timeshare is in the use of it, and if you consistently want to visit Disney World (and Disneyland is building a DVC) then it is a pretty good value. If you want to use it primarily for trading, Marriott may be a better choice, though occasional II trade-outs through DVC can save money.

 

[Dean]

I would figure disney is very good but just curious

It depends on how you'll use it. To use to stay at WDW it does compare favorably overall. It's about 30-80% more expensive if you compare say to Marriott on the buy in and about 30% higher dues. But it is more flexible to USE for DVC stays. For exchanging, it does not compare well at all to essentially anything for a number of reasons. What's best totally depends on one's situation, expectations, flexibility and desires. It also depends on how much effort one wants to put in to learning and using a system. Those not willing to put the effort in to learn the system and/or are not willing to work to get ahead of others will likely do poorly in most any timeshare. DVC is actually more forgiving than most in this area but is getting less so. Here are a few thoughts, others may have different views.

• Best for WDW for non 7 day stays - DVC
• Best for exchanging to high end timeshares - Marriott
• Most flexible and cheapest system overall - several points systems but Bluegreen Silver or Gold is at or near the head of the list. Wyndham better in some areas, worse in others.
• Best timeshare to own - Totally subjective and dependent on other factors.
• Best at holding retail value - DVC, select Marriott's pre-construction.
• Best at holding value if bought resale - a number ahead of DVC if you buy in at a good price though DVC has been good in this area as well.
• Best trading timeshare - Totally depends on what you want but a cheaper Marriott lockoff can give you a return of 300-500% or more per year if you play your cards right and still get you in to top resorts during peak to high seasons, including DVC.

 

[Safari Queen]

We own II and DVC. The DVC is far more flexible in terms of time, size of accommodations, and length of vacation. We bought II with the intention of always exchanging for another location. We find it impossible to get certain locations and tough for others. We often settle because we get frustrated trying for what we want. However, we have had some nice vacations, including two weeks at WDW.

One the other hand, we bought DVC to stay at WDW and to cruise, which we can always do.

 

[dianeschlicht]

For those of us with a Disney habit, it is spectacular! Not the best value for trades, since we pay premium prices for buy ins and dues, but the flexibility of the program is the key for us. We like to be able to change resorts and unit size without penalty and DVC allows us to do that. We can stay in anything from a studio to a 3 bedroom grand villa as long as we have or can borrow enough points for them. Then we can stay for anything from 1 night to however many we want as long as we have the points. That just makes it a lot more flexible than many timeshares.

 

[moredisneyplease]

My uncle has been in the timeshare business for decades now and he says that DVC has an excellent reputation and is definately one of the best to own for his industry's standards....meaning worth the money, reputable, wont fold over night, wont lose its worth, etc etc

 

[bwvBound]

how does disney dvc compare to "other" time share companies??

It has its place. In general we've found that no single timeshare does it all. Each has its own strengths and unique advantages. One offers "location, location, location"; another "least cost per night"; and the next "trading prowess." The goal is to pick the right tool for any given job. We own a smidgen of several different timeshare products, collect frequent flyer miles and credit card reward points, and monitor travel "deals" in hopes of optimizing our travel expenditures.

As already pointed out, DVC is stable, expensive, flexible. Certainly nothing beats owning DVC for staying on WDW property -- especially, as Dean pointed out, for short stays. Guessing you already know the features/benefits of DVC, the list below are benefits we enjoy through our non-DVC timeshares:

• Individual membership with RCI and II for trading and discounted rental weeks. Having direct access to searching both inventories online is serious fun!
• Discounted trades during "last minute" windows: <59 days through II or <45 days through RCI. During these windows a "low season studio" can book nearly any available inventory.
• Potential for "upgrades" through trading. Our 1BR coastal summer unit routinely pulls great trades into 2BR or 3BR units up to 24 months out.
• Bonus time.
• Day use. Extremely valuable side benefit: Friendships among owners who regularly visit the properties for social occasions. (The "face to face" version of this forum ...) Taken to the extreme, one of our properties invites a change in lifestyle as many owners have weekend or fulltime homes bordering the resort.
• Wider variety in locations - even w/out trading. New resorts every year.
• Online booking.
• More attractive point management: better banking/borrowing rules, more consistent point optimization (use of older points first); generous cancellation policies, etc.
• Pet Policies. One of our properties allows pets in specifically designated rooms - located near a "pet park/run." The property also invites you to bring your larger equestrian buddies for a nominal boarding fee.

Mix'n'match for the best of everything. Timeshares are fun and addictive.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

[*]Pet Policies. One of our properties allows pets in specifically designated rooms - located near a "pet park/run." The property also invites you to bring your larger equestrian buddies for a nominal boarding fee

I'm curious as to which property that is? We have both and that sounds very interesting!

 

[bwvBound]

I'm curious as to which property that is? We have both and that sounds very interesting!

Warner Springs Ranch - simply follow I-15 south to Temecula, exit Hwy 79 East. 2500 acres ... miles and miles of gorgeous trails and an unbelievable hot springs pool for soaking after the ride. (Oh sure, golf and tennis if you yet have energy ... a full-service spa ... and a private airstrip. All good!)

 

[ZekeKelso]

The property also invites you to bring your larger equestrian buddies for a nominal boarding fee

Sounds like anti-pony discrimination to me

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Warner Springs Ranch - simply follow I-15 south to Temecula, exit Hwy 79 East. 2500 acres ... miles and miles of gorgeous trails and an unbelievable hot springs pool for soaking after the ride. (Oh sure, golf and tennis if you yet have energy ... a full-service spa ... and a private airstrip. All good!)

Sounds very nice and not too bad of a trip for us either - I'll take a look! Thanks!

 

[bwvBound]

Sounds like anti-pony discrimination to me

LOL! True -- I used the wrong word (equine vs equestrian) and inserted a needless, inaccurate qualifier. I was trying to suggest that the pet policy extended beyond the typical household indoor critters. Bring the horse, pony, mule, burro ... but you are on you own regarding trail/pack animals. We have llama, camel and similar beasts in the nearby hills ... but I'm not sure of their welcome at the ranch.

 

[DeeCee735]

I see reference to Disney buy in being expensive, so I'm wondering how much other timeshares buy in is? Marriott, Hilton, etc.? We priced Marriott in Hilton Head, resort is on the water, but not the "unit" we priced (it wasn't even ocean view) and it was twice the price of our Disney buy in (I am speaking of prices from 8 years ago), but even at today's prices for my amount of points, Disney would be $7,000 less than what Marriott wanted (I'm speaking of buying directly through these companies) with the current incentives for SSR & AKV.

Just curious.....

 

[Dean]

I see reference to Disney buy in being expensive, so I'm wondering how much other timeshares buy in is? Marriott, Hilton, etc.? We priced Marriott in Hilton Head, resort is on the water, but not the "unit" we priced (it wasn't even ocean view) and it was twice the price of our Disney buy in (I am speaking of prices from 8 years ago), but even at today's prices for my amount of points, Disney would be $7,000 less than what Marriott wanted (I'm speaking of buying directly through these companies) with the current incentives for SSR & AKV.

Just curious.....

Here are some teasers as a rough idea. I'll use all 2 BR units for comparison. That'd be somewhere around 350 DVC points for a 2 BR for a week which would be the best direct comparison. These prices are resale, buying direct is nuts unless you want to throw away money.

• One of the best Marriott trading units $6500-7000 with yearly fees under $650, $99 lockoff fee and Marriott internal trading preference.
• Marriott HH beach week summer $21-22K for oceanside, $30K for an OF unit. Not a lockoff.
• Marriott Kaui 2 BR $24K with yearl fees $1400 or so.
• Marriott Ko'Oina 2 BR ocean side lockoff $24K with yearly fees $1400.
• Marriott Williamsburg lockoff $10K, fees were about $750, not sure the last couple of years.
• Bluegreen Silver contract $9K with yearly fees of just under $1000. This would qualify for developer perks, it's be half the upfront costs if you didn't care about the Silver or Gold benefits which include extended waiting, no cost cancellation till 10 days out and the ability to use points to pay fees.
• Bluegreen Gold contract $15K with yearly fees of just under $1600 yielding about 5 weeks a year.
• RCI points about 4¢ a point and fees about $1 for every 150 points at the best.

 

[chuckx]

My first posting so I am unsure if this is posting where I want it to. I wanted to reply to the question about whether or not DVC was worth it or not.

Now I am completely confused the entire establishment of DVC. I am interested in purchasing a time share in the Disney World area and I would love to be on property. I met with a sales agent this morning and walked away with a public offering statement to read.

What exactly am I paying $16,000.00 for, for the 160 points? I can see where I become part owner of the home resort association. Then the association is in a more or less joint lease with Disney for the land. But if the association, more or less, ejects DVD, which it appears could be relatively easy to do, then the lease could be considered in violation. The lease requires that DVD retains all voting rights.

Who exactly is DVD? Who is paying for the lease on the property? At this time, while I have not read much further, my only guess is that the $16,000.00 goes toward paying the lease on the property. If the the lease is in violation halfway through its lifetime, will there be a refund on the remaining equity of the lease?

I have a million questions and I highly doubt DVC will answer them.

I asked for a copy of an audit but I was not provided with one.

What boggles my mind is how is it that I could sleep well at night signing over my financial rights to someone else to decide unfettered. On the other side, the documents seem to read that your rights are truly not taken away, but if you or a crazy member decides that they want their rights and get enough other people to ask for their rights, then the lease will be terminated?

I may be confused. Has anyone else read these documents and do you have a better understanding of them?

 

[Laxmom]

What you described is the same clause that is in both my Marriott contracts. The HOA can, by majority vote, fire Marriott as their management company once the resort sells out. It is common in TS contracts. The difference, from what I understand, is....that DVD is the "company" or subsidiary that owns DVC. So, they are leasing the land from Disney for the timeshare resorts. At least that is how I understand it. There is no way that Disney would put a clause in their contract that would make it possible for them to lose control of any DVC property. And even if they did, and it took a majority vote, like Marriott, for example, do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find the votes necessary to terminate this arrangement? People who aren't happy with their DVC simply sell it. I haven't come across any of those people yet.

If you were talking any other timeshare, including Marriott, I would say your concerns were legit. I don't think you have anything to worry about; Disney is smarter than to risk something that has been so successful both in terms of profit and at filling the parks. IMHO.

 

[salmoneous]

My simplistic understanding...

Disney wears many different hats. There is Disney the mother company that owns the land. There is Disney the developer that builds/owns/profits from DVC. Then there is Disney the management company.

Theoretically, the management company works for us. We could choose to fire them and bring in somebody else. But if that happens, all <heck> breaks loose. VB and HHI might be able to get away with it - spin off and become a stand alone-beach resort. But the consequence for the WDW resorts would be pretty nasty. How exactly do you have a resort at Wilderness Lodge that is alienated from Disney? The contract spells out our legal rights and the consequences, but it's safe to say it's just not going to happen.

We have to trust that Disney - the management company - will actually work in our best interest. Or at least won't rip us off too badly. There are several reasons to believe they'll treat us right. First, the tend to be a decent, treat the customer right company. Second, as long as they want to sell new timeshares, they have to treat current owners well. And even if Disney gets taken over by the greediest of corporate raiders, and even if they stop caring becuase they are no longer selling new units, Florida has pretty strong pro-owner timeshare laws to protect us. No guarantees of course, but it's a bet worth making.

 

[Dean]

My simplistic understanding...

Disney wears many different hats. There is Disney the mother company that owns the land. There is Disney the developer that builds/owns/profits from DVC. Then there is Disney the management company.

Theoretically, the management company works for us. We could choose to fire them and bring in somebody else. But if that happens, all <heck> breaks loose. VB and HHI might be able to get away with it - spin off and become a stand alone-beach resort. But the consequence for the WDW resorts would be pretty nasty. How exactly do you have a resort at Wilderness Lodge that is alienated from Disney? The contract spells out our legal rights and the consequences, but it's safe to say it's just not going to happen.

We have to trust that Disney - the management company - will actually work in our best interest. Or at least won't rip us off too badly. There are several reasons to believe they'll treat us right. First, the tend to be a decent, treat the customer right company. Second, as long as they want to sell new timeshares, they have to treat current owners well. And even if Disney gets taken over by the greediest of corporate raiders, and even if they stop caring becuase they are no longer selling new units, Florida has pretty strong pro-owner timeshare laws to protect us. No guarantees of course, but it's a bet worth making.

I think it's reasonable to think that Disney will be there for the long haul because they have as much or more to lose overall than do the members. It's very unlikely they'll walk away from the on property resorts for a number of reasons and simply playing nice isn't one of them. I do think HH and VB are less secure and in the long run, HI will be far more at risk of leaving the fold than anything else due to a number of issues including the climate there and Disney's lack of experience in this type of venture.

 

[chuckx]

What you described is the same clause that is in both my Marriott contracts. The HOA can, by majority vote, fire Marriott as their management company once the resort sells out. It is common in TS contracts. The difference, from what I understand, is....that DVD is the "company" or subsidiary that owns DVC. So, they are leasing the land from Disney for the timeshare resorts. At least that is how I understand it. There is no way that Disney would put a clause in their contract that would make it possible for them to lose control of any DVC property. And even if they did, and it took a majority vote, like Marriott, for example, do you have any idea how impossible it would be to find the votes necessary to terminate this arrangement? People who aren't happy with their DVC simply sell it. I haven't come across any of those people yet.

If you were talking any other timeshare, including Marriott, I would say your concerns were legit. I don't think you have anything to worry about; Disney is smarter than to risk something that has been so successful both in terms of profit and at filling the parks. IMHO.

I should disclose that I manage associations and condos. The documents read very similar to most documents I read.

You make good points about how unhappy people will simply sell their time shares. Someone else made the point that Disney may likely hurt themselves if they do not run the property well.

There are still a couple disconnects that I don't totally understand. I believe the cotenancy states that the association must hand over all voting rights to DVD. If this does not happen then the lease terminates leaving the association to seek other resort accommodations.

With regards to Disney being there for the long haul, would they be better off having the association leave anyhow? At that time the resort and all its improvements would become property of Disney. Is there a compensation to the association for the loss of the lease?

What would keep Disney from awarding contracts to companies that they hold an interest in and then setting their own rates. I did not see a clause stating that DVD would act in the best interest. I saw clauses that they would act unfettered.

I am not an owner yet, but I am contemplating it. I would like a timeshare in the area but I am split between buying a traditional one in the area and a Disney one.

I find it scary signing a contract that allows someone to bill me whatever they please unfettered.

"We have to trust that Disney - the management company - will actually work in our best interest. Or at least won't rip us off too badly." As it is they are having the time share owners pay to build them a hotel. Then they can sign whatever contracts they wish and charge whatever they want. The conflict of interest already exists in the effect that the managment firm will be awarded a 12% bonus on ever capital project contract that is awarded.

I suppose in theory the time share owners will save as no one will be taking profit from the top. In theory the management fee is a competitive rate.

The only thing remaining is whether or not there is equity in the lease. Do the time share owners association have the ability to walk away from the table with something to negotiate? ie. the remaining value of the land lease.

 

[FLYNZ4]

With a 2008 brand equity value of $23.7 Billion... Disney has a lot more to lose with a scandal than they can gain by getting a few measley condos that are generating healthy revenue.

I think this is a big difference from most condo associations... especially the off-brands.

/Jim