How do you stop a liar? (LONG)

[sweet angel]

My son is 13 and lies about everything. It's gotten to the point where if I don't see or hear it myself, I don't believe it. I know he's got low self-esteem, which I don't understand because he's a tall, good-looking kid with a good personality and brains (nope, I'm not biased at all! ).

He constantly puts people down (to make himself feel better?) and lies about his ability to do things, what people say, etc.

An example, he has come home with a couple of friends and asked to stay out later. I say, "No, we're going to be eating dinner in a few minutes." He says to his friend, "Great, now I"m grounded for a week." I'm like, "Huh????"

He leaves for the bus stop about 20 minutes early to "hang out" with his "friends". We're on good terms with the "friend's" parents so had a chat last night. Apparently, no one at the bus stop bothers with him, and the "friend" doesn't even sit with him on the bus. He's making up stories about things that go on on the bus, etc.

Makes up stories at school, etc.

I don't know what to do. He's already going to a counselor. I've tried to explain to him that people don't like/trust liars, that it's easier and better to tell the truth, that he should just be him and not try to do what everybody does, that he'll get caught in lies and will be worse off, that it takes time to learn things and that lying about it doesn't make it true, etc.

Has anyone had this problem? How did you deal with it?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[disneygals]

I don't have any advice! My dd did lie some last year in 6th grade. Sometimes they seemed to just fall out of her mouth! Her's was not a huge problem and I did explain that these are the years she has to make me trust her, so she can leave the house when she's a teen.

I still don't completely trust her, but when I call her on stuff, she's been telling the truth.

Is it a phase? What does the counselor say?

Good Luck!

Vivienne

 

[gr8tpanther]

Unfortunately, yes, my DD10 lies but mainly when it comes to admitting that she did something and she is NOT a good liar, so I normally KNOW when she is lying and call her on it and she eventually tells the truth.

My DD11 has very VERY bad short term memory and most of what she says isn't what is, jsut what she fabricates.

I would say just start questioning EVERYTHING, maybe he will just get tired of all the questioning and start telling it like it is?

 

[auntpolly]

I'm no psychcologist, and my DD didn't have this specific problem, but when problems like this came up I would kind of approach them indirectly. At that age, they are all very self-concious, so talking alot about the actual problem sometimes just made it worse (too much focus on the the negative, so put it aside for a minute.)

I always tried to find ways to build DD up and get close to her. Like I'd go to every one of her swim meets and make a big fuss about her times improving. We celebrated every accomplishment at school. I facilitated her doing things with kids she liked. And I'd spend extra time with her doing her favorite things. Like we'd make pizzas and watch an "I Love Lucy" Marathon on Nickelodeon.Most times she'd open up to me about stuff that was bothering her, and at the least she'd just lighten up a bit and not let things bother her so much. It's just a tough age -- I was a regular little weirdo at that age

 

[gr8tpanther]

Originally posted by auntpolly
I was a regular little weirdo at that age

I am still a regular weirdo.... or is that jsut weirdo?

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by gr8tpanther
I am still a regular weirdo.... or is that jsut weirdo?

We all have a little bit of that 13 year old left in us; don't we? What a hard age! I wouldn't go back to that age for anything!!!!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

In your son's case I would say that you need to get to the root of the problem. This is more than just "lying". I would say if you think the counselor is not helping him to find a different one.
Does he see a male or female? What is dad saying about his "lying"?

I have a 13yodd and try NOT to to get involved with all of their "charades". I check "in" from everyday to evaluate and I know they blow things WAY out of proportion. She "unloads" on me daily and then moves on.

Does he have alot of friends? At this age this is VERY important.n Even the teachers at dd's open house stated that is how the kids get by this year. Relying on friendships to help get them toward the impending "doom" of High School.

 

[snoopy]

Originally posted by auntpolly
It's just a tough age -- I was a regular little weirdo at that age

LOL and me too.

My kids are still little enough to tell on themselves when they have done something wrong but I know teenagers do tend to exaggerate. I like Aunt Polly's suggestions. Good luck with your DS.

 

[gr8tpanther]

Originally posted by auntpolly
We all have a little bit of that 13 year old left in us; don't we? What a hard age! I wouldn't go back to that age for anything!!!!

You got THAT right, I am just biting my nails to get my DDs through it. One will be 12, TWELVE! in November. The other is still 10, but geesh! Then I guess it starts... the boys and the makeup and the begging for things I won't let them do, lol.

 

[NMAmy]

DH just bought a new book that has a lot of insight into kids this age. It's called "Not much just chillin': The hidden life of middle schoolers" by Linda Perlstein. He has a very hard time understanding dd, who is 13. He was brought up in England and went to an all boys school and had 3 brothers so he really wasn't exposed to any girls at that age and has a hard time understanding why she acts the way she does.

It was very reassuring to him to read that the crazy things she does are very normal for her age. Answering "I don't know" to every question, being disorganized, lying. Some of it is physiological. I'd been telling him that they all act that way and this validated it for him.

It's a very interesting book and may make you feel better!

One thing here--I've always given dd permission to use me as a reason to not do something that she doesn't want to do or when kids are trying to pressure her. So she has also told kids that she's grounded when they want her to go somewhere and she just for whatever reason, doesn't want to go. It's hard for kids this age to not go along with their peers--and if it makes it easier for her--I don't have a problem with that kind of white lie.

For example--if everyone wants to go skating but kids have been getting in fights at the skating rink and she doesn't want to be involved--it's fine with me if she wants to say, "Well, jeez, my mom won't let me go. Family night." or something to that effect.

 

[auntpolly]

Amy, did you read, "Reviving Ophelia". It really got me thinking when DD was younger and really made me vigilant about helping her with her self-esteem.

WARNING: MOM BRAG! - Now she's one of the most self confident young women that I know - and not just 'cause I'm her mom!!!

 

[mrsgus06]

I am having the same problem, but on a "smaller" scale, my dd is only 5! She lies constantly and on a daily basis. I think it is to get her older sisters in trouble. I have had to show my husband how often she lies so he would quit punishing the older two. I have a motto about this dd, "if it is open, it is a lie". I have no idea why she does this and I am working on it. I don't remember the others telling so many lies at this age. I know she is #5 out of 6 and not old enough to do the things the bigger ones do, and not young enough to be the "baby", so I don't know if this has anything to do with it. It is very hard to deal with, good luck.

 

[swanmom]

Sweet Angel,
I'd like to also recommend the book mentioned by NMAmy "Not much, Just chillin" by Linda Perlstein. It gives remarkable insight into the workings of the middle school kid's mind....not just the individual but all the social 'goings-on' on the in and around school. The author has a website with exerpts from the book at www.notmuchjustchillin.com
Our middle school administration and PTO were impressed enough by the book that they have invited Ms. Perlstein to speak at our school next month. If you're interested, just pm me and I'll send you the details.

I know that this may not solve all your sons problems but I think the more insight we have as parents the better we are at helping our pre-teens and teens.

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by NMAmy
One thing here--I've always given dd permission to use me as a reason to not do something that she doesn't want to do or when kids are trying to pressure her. So she has also told kids that she's grounded when they want her to go somewhere and she just for whatever reason, doesn't want to go. It's hard for kids this age to not go along with their peers--and if it makes it easier for her--I don't have a problem with that kind of white lie.

For example--if everyone wants to go skating but kids have been getting in fights at the skating rink and she doesn't want to be involved--it's fine with me if she wants to say, "Well, jeez, my mom won't let me go. Family night." or something to that effect.

I'm 31 and I still do this. If I get invited out to something social and I don't want to go, I just say, "Sorry, mom's wigging because I haven't seen her in a while...I have to go over there." My mom loves it because I always feel so guilty I really do go over there and hang with her.

To add to the OT, some kids (my brother was one) are really very dramatic. It's much more dramatic to say "I got grounded!" than it is to say "I have to eat dinner!". Also, kids like that "us vs. them" mentality with grown-ups, and this is kinda like saying "Geez, my parents suck just like yours".

 

[NMAmy]

Originally posted by auntpolly
Amy, did you read, "Reviving Ophelia". It really got me thinking when DD was younger and really made me vigilant about helping her with her self-esteem.

WARNING: MOM BRAG! - Now she's one of the most self confident young women that I know - and not just 'cause I'm her mom!!!

auntpolly--I did read this one a few years ago and really should read it again. Also, "Queen Bees & Wannabees" was pretty helpful. I remember what a pain in the patootie it was going through all this 30 years ago--and I think it's even worse for kids this age nowadays.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

I don't have any advice, but I will say my brother was just like this. He's not a bad person, but for some reason, he was always lying about things and hiding things, even things no one would care about if they knew the truth. It was almost like it was more exciting to be lying about stuff than being truthful. He also suffered from horrendously low self-esteem.

The thing is, he never outgrew it. The lies are just about different things now. He still lies to our parents and now to his wife. It's really strange.

 

[sweet angel]

Originally posted by The Mystery Machine
In your son's case I would say that you need to get to the root of the problem. This is more than just "lying". I would say if you think the counselor is not helping him to find a different one.
Does he see a male or female? What is dad saying about his "lying"?/b]

He sees a male counselor. When we started, it was more for his attitude and his bad grades than anything else. The counselor decided to work on grades first. He tested him for ADD/ADHD and he doesn't have that or any learning disability. He's all about trying to get people to like him, whatever the cost.

"Dad" doesn't say anything about the lying because he doesn't see him enough to know/care. We were divorced about 9 years ago and he's always found a reason not to be involved...mostly "you moved so far away" -- we're less than an hour away. He just moved 5 miles away from us, so maybe that will help.

Does he have alot of friends? At this age this is VERY important.n Even the teachers at dd's open house stated that is how the kids get by this year. Relying on friendships to help get them toward the impending "doom" of High School.

Nope, not at all. He has a couple of kids that tolerate him in small doses, but I wouldn't consider them friends. And they're all younger.

Maybe it IS my fault...we moved 3 times in 5 years, but we've been where we are now for 4 and I have no intention of moving. He's always had a hard time fitting in and making friends. If he would relax and be himself and STOP lying, maybe he'd succeed.

Thanks for all the input!

 

[RadioNate]

I think your ds just has really low self esteem. He's lying to make himself feel better, he's lying to get friends, he's lying because he started and now he's caught in a pattern that's hard to break. He's just trying to fit in and going about it all wrong.

He craves attention even if he has to make up horrible things to get it. At his age I lied about having brothers and sisters, I even brought pictures to show and made up names and stories. I just wanted to be like everyone else instead of an only child of divorced parents.

As I got older and more comfortable with myself the lies stopped for the most part. In HS and even college if I was feeling especially uncool sometime I would lie again. But now 10+ years later I don't need that to feel good about myself.

Looking back I'm sure some of it had to be the way my dad treated me (never around and very unreliable when he was) and some of it was just normal unsure "kid" stuff.

I'd suggest talking to his therpist and try to figure out why he's lying and then work on fixing it. I think making some solid friends would help too. Working on his self esteem is also key.

I know you know all this.

I hope dad comes back in his life, I bet that would help. But in the meantime good for you for trying to help in any way possible.

 

[sweet angel]

Thanks RadioNate...you just made me feel a heck of a lot better.

I don't think he's invented any brothers or sisters yet...give him time. He HAS told people he can't do things (change a bike tire, etc) because "I don't have a dad". Keep in mind that I've been dating the same guy for almost 8 years, so that kind of negates that statement.

I think it's tough for a counselor to work through the lying because chances are, he's being lied to as well, and doesn't know my son well enough to realize it.

Hopefully things will mellow in time.