How do you handle the Holidays when...

Sorry OP but wanting to cry, accusing him of cutting off family and saying he chooses not to spend time with his family on Christmas, etc. is all so over the top when the guy IS spending time with you on Christmas! But you are still not happy because that is not enough time to do the stockings and dinner and whatever else you want to force. Be more flexible, if he can drop in for a few hours, why not just say great, sounds awesome? Don't make him want to dread this and avoid you even more.
 
Since he's planning on coming to your house, I think you're ahead of the game here.
What you need to do is find out what he wants to do during that 3-4 hours. Does he want the big traditional meal?, a gift opening or stocking time?, or would he rather play games and eat munchies while just being with you guys?
(Do you have other children that will be there? What will they expect to be doing? Will they be willing to forgo what you see is traditional and move to something more organic in nature?)
 
It's also occurred to me that it might be helpful to consider what your family holiday celebrations are like -- from your son's and his significant other's perspectives as best you can. I know we all struggle to spend time with DH's family for many reasons, which they are completely oblivious to despite some gentle and direct comments on our part over the years. They have rabid political views and attempt to force them on everyone, including us, at every opportunity. As our daughters have grown to voting age and approaching voting age they amped up the attempts to indoctrinate -- if so much as a simple question is raised to ask for clarification on a single point of the harangue they immediately want to drop the subject and say, "well, let's talk about something more pleasant." We're not talking a baiting or challenging question, we're talking, Grandma, you said X, what is that, I never heard of that before?

That's where we get into the real minefield. No discussion of television, movies or books will work. They refuse to attend a movie theater, only read books surrounding their political views and TV is the same, with the exception of HGTV. Perfect, let's discuss something wonderfully banal like DIY and home improvement projects! Not so fast there, Quickdraw. Only specific HGTV shows or types of home improvement projects or styles are worthwhile. Their discussion of anything out of their comfort zone is minimal and cutting. You literally can expect a tongue lashing for suggesting the wrong color looks pretty in a bath or bedroom or the wrong type of wood for kitchen cabinets.

Vacation discussions are either immediately torn apart as too expensive or ridiculous -- Chicago, Disney, Las Vegas, etc. If a destination somehow manages to pass their approval it becomes a one way lecture on their expertise touring there -- frequently concentrating on a cooler, bologna sandwiches twice a day and the best routes to get around. They may have asked, how was your trip, what did you do, but answer at your own peril -- and not on their time, because they have stuff they want to tell you about where you went even if they've never been there.

Sports are nonsense. Family dinners consist of laundry lists of ailments and why they can't eat a list of ingredients that fluctuates within a single meal (when I'm cooking), or seriously overcooked meats and skimpy to the point of nearly non existent sides (when MIL cooks). Table conversations start with an inquisition of my daughters about their studies as lead-in to yet another round of tales of BIL's natural brilliance in spite of teachers who tried to thwart his superstardom. (BIL is in his mid fifties, supported by mom and dad and has yet to start a career or even hold so much as a minimum wage job despite a college degree -- chosen for having zero possibility of gainful employment in the field by his own admission.)

You may think it sounds extreme, but sadly I can tell you it's absolutely true. It is beyond challenging to welcome the prospect of spending time with people who are unpleasant when you discuss literally any topic under the sun -- all while complaining you never spend time with them. OP, I urge you to take an outsider's look at what your own family celebrations look like and try to evaluate as objectively as possible what kind of an experience they really are for your son and his SO. They may not be as extreme as what I've outlined here but these types of things are common in extended family dynamics. A lot of singletons dread the holidays because they get quizzed about their love lives and family holidays often focus on doting on the small kids, possibly ignoring the lives of childless family members as irrelevant. These types of things are worth considering if you really want a solid ongoing relationship.
 
First of all, I can understand how painful it is when life starts to change. I think the transition of being the parent of children to being the parent of adults is one of the hardest times of peoples' lives with all the changes. How you handle it will set the tone for your relationship with your adult children for the future.

I suggest you read these posts very carefully. Also, a poster has another thread on here on how she wants to go to Thanksgiving with her friends instead of the family Thanksgiving. There are many explanations on there by people on why they don't want to spend time a ton of time with their parents, most of them very valid.

A PP said that they have given up on holidays with the relatives because they were expected to spend all day. Your son is giving you 3 hours, but that is not enough for you. You say that you are not guilting them into staying, but if we can read your displeasure over a message board, you can bet your son can feel the pressure to stay longer. Don't be like the parents that people are writing about and put your needs above understanding your now adult child's needs. It can be so hard when you are an adult to please both your parents and still have an independent life.

You may need to change those childhood traditions like the stocking opening to a more adult type Christmas gathering to make it more enticing to spend holidays with you.

It was pretty harsh to tell you that he has purposely cut down the time he spends with the family. But maybe he is trying to shock you into realizing things need to change. I can't think of how anybody can be more blatant about the fact that there are problems. It is easy to blame outside influences that made him cut the time he spends with the family, but outside influences wouldn't be so influential if there wasn't already underlying problems. I would listen to your son, really listen without blaming anybody else, and maybe admit to yourselves that both of you might have changes to make. Really look at all the posts that say Mom or MIL makes no attempt to make changes to make things better. Not saying you are totally to blame, but from what you have posted, it seems your son thinks your family is to blame, so you need to listen to what he is saying. Maybe what he wants is impossible and can't be changed, but maybe there is a possibility that you can make some changes to make things better.

I just wanted to second all of the above, especially the part I've bolded. To be completely honest, OP, you saying that your son "only has 2-3 hours he will come for Christmas" sort of struck a nerve with me. My MIL complains every Christmas that we only spend 3-4 hours with them. However, they live two hours away, so that "only 3-4 hours" is more like 7-8 hours for us once travel time is included. On top of that, there are other people we also like to visit on Christmas. My MIL doesn't realize that she's not far from my husband telling her that if 3-4 hours isn't good enough, we won't be visiting for Christmas. (Much like your situation, there's way more to the story when it comes to the relationship between my husband and his parents.) Please don't put your son in a position to have to decide if he will only visit 2-3 hours or not at all. As others have advised, enjoy the time you do have with him.

Spot on.
 

My younger son just told us that he would be spending Thanksgiving with his df's family but will join us the next day to celebrate his grandmother's birthday. I will miss him but life has to adjust when you have more than one family.
 
This thread makes me thankful for my mom who for the last 6 years has every year had this conversation with me (This years happened yesterday)

Mom: What are you doing for thanksgiving?
Me: The same thing I do every year... going where you tell me for dinner. What else would we be doing?
Mom: Ok just checking.

Then she tells me where it is going to be and if she needs me to make mac and cheese, bring my roaster pan or anything else special.

They are understanding that dinner needs to be earlier, either a lunch of by like 3. Two members of the family work retail (DH is one) and need to be asleep early since they will be getting to work a bit after midnight (MA doesn't let them work on the holiday).

My parents want me to come but they don't just assume I"ll be there and don't get mad at someone if they aren't. ONe year I didn't come home for Thanksgiving. It was 7 years ago. DH's mom died in September and we spent a ton of time and money coming back and forth with hospital visits (lived 6 hours away at the time), we got married in early Nov so again more time off and expense, and just couldn't swing the time off, expense, and schedule with DH having to work black friday. My parents understood and just said they would miss seeing us.
 
OP, how did your family Christmases go in the past? Was it an all day thing? Was it a few hours at your home and then on to grandma's?

What is it that he can't take part in during the amount of time he is saying he will be there?
 
You've got some good advice. :hug:

You can't change him, but you can control your own reactions so that in the future he'll want to spend more time with you (hopefully).
 
So because he is an adult it's ok to blow off family? I am open to all kinds of re-arranging, but apparently that's not an option. Sorry, I'm just hurt and angry and don't get his behavior. And trust me, I've always said I would be flexible when they got older, but cutting family off is not what I was imagining my choice would be. Do you choose to not spend time with your parents and sibling on the holidays?
Separation/individuation is the primary developmental task of the young adult. They begin to see their primary group of friends as their family group, and start coupling up, starting families, etc. This is how they do it. I'd be more worried if a child wouldn't/couldn't do it. I'm not saying it isn't painful and difficult for the family of origin, but he isn't really "cutting anyone off" unless he refuses to communicate. I think all of us can remember times during the holidays when we were young when we stayed home to finish an important paper or attend a big dinner at a friend's house or even go to dinner at a new boyfriend/girlfriend's parent's house. If you are asking if this is OK or normal, the answer is yes. If you are asking for emotional support to deal with these changes, I completely understand how this hurts and I totally get where you are coming from.
 
Sorry OP but wanting to cry, accusing him of cutting off family and saying he chooses not to spend time with his family on Christmas, etc. is all so over the top when the guy IS spending time with you on Christmas! But you are still not happy because that is not enough time to do the stockings and dinner and whatever else you want to force. Be more flexible, if he can drop in for a few hours, why not just say great, sounds awesome? Don't make him want to dread this and avoid you even more.

Agreed. OP you have to adjust and try and do it with as much grace as you can even though it's not what you want. Those "outside influences" have their own families and their own traditions too. You cannot expect everything to stay the same forever. You have to be flexible. If you are not then you will find even more distance.

This is a sensitive topic for me because it is one I have dealt with for over 20 years and apparently it will never end. The fact that I refuse to bend and abandon my family traditions in favor of the ones from DH's side is a sore point. It's never enough. As time has worn on we have spent less and less time - aside from holidays - with his side because of how things are handled. We now ONLY see his family every other holiday and for the kid's birthdays. No family get togethers or meals just because. That what happens when you spend a lot of time being treated like you're a child that has to do what your mom wants and getting grief when you don't. When a real man is put in the position where he can make his mother happy or the woman he loves happy he will choose the woman he loves, not his mom. The key is to never force them to make that choice.

Be flexible, don't be demanding, try and be understanding and try and think about how hard it is to be in the middle.
 
Maybe I'm misreading... he said he'd spend 2-3 hours with the Family at Christmas? So, he's making time for you, just not enough time, in your opinion? I'm sorry, but he is making an effort to be there, which is more than many "adult children" will do. With travel time, that's a big chunk of the day, especially if there are other people he wants to visit. Maybe you should just be happy that he will be visiting!

As to Thanksgiving, is he maybe working? Many people do. DH works in manufacturing, and they work 24/7/365, so he might need to work any or all Holidays. Maybe your DS is in a similar situation.

Honestly, if a few hours isn't enough for you, maybe you need to think about why he doesn't want to spend more time with you.

We spend 3-4 hours at my in-laws for the holidays, and by the end of that much time we are all exhausted from it...there's endless judgement, multiple questions about everything that feels like an interrogation, etc. even the children want to leave because they don't like the way their grandparents grill them.
 
There is much more to this story, and frankly, I'm not airing it all here. Suffice it to say he told us last year that it was not our imagination, but that he has deliberately cut us out of his life the last few years. We knew he had, but hoped it was just becoming an adult and creating his own life and there was no issues made. We did not guilt him into anything event-wise but always invited him and said we were sorry he couldn't make it when the inevitable excuse came. Once he came clean it was deliberate, yes, my heart broke. In a million pieces. Not quite back together yet either.

Yes, he has a SO and will be spending Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve and morning with the other family. We have no relationship with the SO because they do not visit us, nor are we invited there. No, we have never said an unkind word about his SO. Frankly, our interaction has been less than one minute in total. They even turned down a 2 day whirlwind paid for trip to see Osbourne Lights before they're gone in lieu of Christmas gifts. But he would take money for his student loans, thanks.
This sounds like a situation that is just going to take time. The more unconditional positive regard you can muster for him, the better. I'm sure you can treat the other family like any other family in your extended and send a nice Christmas card. Maybe a card or a charity donation in the SO's name. Your heart may not come back together soon, but if you are confident you are putting the best out there, perhaps you can have some peace.
 
When and if your son marries or finds a SO, he'll have to make some compromises and they may mean he misses out on some occasions with you and your family. Get your mindset ready for it. This difference in what you want versus what you'll get from him, is a good start to that.
 
Separation/individuation is the primary developmental task of the young adult. They begin to see their primary group of friends as their family group, and start coupling up, starting families, etc. This is how they do it. I'd be more worried if a child wouldn't/couldn't do it. I'm not saying it isn't painful and difficult for the family of origin, but he isn't really "cutting anyone off" unless he refuses to communicate. I think all of us can remember times during the holidays when we were young when we stayed home to finish an important paper or attend a big dinner at a friend's house or even go to dinner at a new boyfriend/girlfriend's parent's house. If you are asking if this is OK or normal, the answer is yes. If you are asking for emotional support to deal with these changes, I completely understand how this hurts and I totally get where you are coming from.

Agreed. OP you have to adjust and try and do it with as much grace as you can even though it's not what you want. Those "outside influences" have their own families and their own traditions too. You cannot expect everything to stay the same forever. You have to be flexible. If you are not then you will find even more distance.

This is a sensitive topic for me because it is one I have dealt with for over 20 years and apparently it will never end. The fact that I refuse to bend and abandon my family traditions in favor of the ones from DH's side is a sore point. It's never enough. As time has worn on we have spent less and less time - aside from holidays - with his side because of how things are handled. We now ONLY see his family every other holiday and for the kid's birthdays. No family get togethers or meals just because. That what happens when you spend a lot of time being treated like you're a child that has to do what your mom wants and getting grief when you don't. When a real man is put in the position where he can make his mother happy or the woman he loves happy he will choose the woman he loves, not his mom. The key is to never force them to make that choice.

Be flexible, don't be demanding, try and be understanding and try and think about how hard it is to be in the middle.

The above is so true. My siblings have not grown up and left the nest. My sisters are forty and twenty nine. Never married. See my parents daily. Brother is thirty two, married with a child but sees my parents daily and my parents call all the shots re child rearing, finances, etc. I'm married with three small kids. While involved and respectful of my parents, it was never enough. I could not do right. They wanted long visits with high frequency. They went so far as to say they wanted to fix my daughter by raising her their way. I respectfully did things my way. They cut me off. They still want me to be a child.
 
OP, I do think that you need to consider many of the comments here.
We are all only trying to help.

I still wonder what was meant by 'no Holiday'.
Christmas at home with family seems to be very, very, important to the OP, and I do not think that there are any indications that this would mean a 'holiday' as in a trip or vacation.

I am going to go ahead and mention that I think that 'no Holiday' means no Normal Rockwell Christmas Holiday, with the whole extended family together under one roof for a considerable length of time. And, of course, that expectation is not always realistic. If the OP is disappointed because this is not going to happen, then her expectations play a huge role in that. High expectations placed on others, which are more than the other persons are comfortable with, will definitely cause 'distance', and even 'extrangement'.
The no holiday was in reference to a pp saying to go away on holiday, like the Brits say. That's what I meant, I can't go away on a trip.
 
Holidays were all I had left with this son, so it's hurtful.
Are you a mindreader? Can you see the future? You have no idea what wonderful things you have in the future with your son. It is clear you think he is somehow flawed or bad and not fulfilling some family role. Why would anyone in their right mind spend time with a family member who is creating all of this ugliness? You want to spend all this time with him, but why? You clearly don't enjoy him, respect him or value his life choices. How can "holidays" be all any of us have left? That is some drama-mama nonsense.
 
From the "adult child" perspective, I'm 29, engaged, and an only child. My parents and extended family live about 90 minutes away. Holidays are now officially a chore for me. The stress of figuring who to spend them with, when, how, not wanting to upset anyone, considering the possibility of bad weather, etc. I honestly dread the holidays now and long for the day when I can consider holidays fun and relaxing again. I constantly feel like I need to please other people during the holidays by making a million stops, and it's not fun. Perhaps your son feels like I do and has finally thrown his hands up and is doing what he wants to do now. The fact that he's still making *some* time for you on Christmas day is positive. I know we don't know all the details but based on what you've said, I may not take it so personally and just chalk it up to life getting in the way. Good luck to you!
 
I hate to use the word estranged. If I text him, he'll chat back. We go over his way and bring coffee for him and his coworkers. Or get something at the farmers market he likes and drop it off. All that is fine.

I know there are different levels of togetherness that people have for families or holidays, but our family, small unit plus extended, is very close and thanksgiving night and Christmas are big deals. Lots of fun etc....no one is guilted into going or forced to attend, we want to be there.

As for Christmas here, we have stockings and presents and that's an hour at least! Then if there's a meal, I don't see how there's time to eat it. I don't want it rushed, I do want it relaxed and enjoyable. I'd rather we do it another day as neither son can come at the same time anyway.

It's difficult, but I am thankful for these boards. I get to vent, and I'm calmer now. I do have a great DH and it will be fine, whatever happens. I just miss my DS and how close we were when he was younger. And we didn't "do" anything to cause this. We have always told our kids we loved them no matter what and supported them 100%. There were outside influences that have caused this, and I'll leave it at that.
If you want this relationship to improve and strengthen you need to get some help. I recommend a family therapist, preferably a LCSW. She or he can teach you ways to manage the bad feelings and anxiety and get some joy back. Asking for help will move you forward miles. You and your son still have a lifetime together. Outside influences or not, behaviors have developed that are not conducive to a functioning family. I wish you all the best.
 
Are you a mindreader? Can you see the future? You have no idea what wonderful things you have in the future with your son. It is clear you think he is somehow flawed or bad and not fulfilling some family role. Why would anyone in their right mind spend time with a family member who is creating all of this ugliness? You want to spend all this time with him, but why? You clearly don't enjoy him, respect him or value his life choices. How can "holidays" be all any of us have left? That is some drama-mama nonsense.
Thank you for the laugh, I needed that! Not sure what ugliness I created in asking what his plans were, and yes my feelings were hurt in the way he presented things to me. I think he's great, he has some growing up to do, but he'll get there. Am I perfect, no, but that's neither here nor there. Neither of my children have spent the entire holiday (any holiday) at home. That's too much togetherness for adult children and parents! Not sure where everyone thinks I'm trying keep the apron strings tied or what-not, usually I get accused of making them be too adult! They are both perfectly functiong adults, one married, one with a SO, and I have never expected the holidays to stay the same. I guess it's his reasoning for spending less time home that is my issue.
 
It's also occurred to me that it might be helpful to consider what your family holiday celebrations are like -- from your son's and his significant other's perspectives as best you can. I know we all struggle to spend time with DH's family for many reasons, which they are completely oblivious to despite some gentle and direct comments on our part over the years. They have rabid political views and attempt to force them on everyone, including us, at every opportunity. As our daughters have grown to voting age and approaching voting age they amped up the attempts to indoctrinate -- if so much as a simple question is raised to ask for clarification on a single point of the harangue they immediately want to drop the subject and say, "well, let's talk about something more pleasant." We're not talking a baiting or challenging question, we're talking, Grandma, you said X, what is that, I never heard of that before?

That's where we get into the real minefield. No discussion of television, movies or books will work. They refuse to attend a movie theater, only read books surrounding their political views and TV is the same, with the exception of HGTV. Perfect, let's discuss something wonderfully banal like DIY and home improvement projects! Not so fast there, Quickdraw. Only specific HGTV shows or types of home improvement projects or styles are worthwhile. Their discussion of anything out of their comfort zone is minimal and cutting. You literally can expect a tongue lashing for suggesting the wrong color looks pretty in a bath or bedroom or the wrong type of wood for kitchen cabinets.

Vacation discussions are either immediately torn apart as too expensive or ridiculous -- Chicago, Disney, Las Vegas, etc. If a destination somehow manages to pass their approval it becomes a one way lecture on their expertise touring there -- frequently concentrating on a cooler, bologna sandwiches twice a day and the best routes to get around. They may have asked, how was your trip, what did you do, but answer at your own peril -- and not on their time, because they have stuff they want to tell you about where you went even if they've never been there.

Sports are nonsense. Family dinners consist of laundry lists of ailments and why they can't eat a list of ingredients that fluctuates within a single meal (when I'm cooking), or seriously overcooked meats and skimpy to the point of nearly non existent sides (when MIL cooks). Table conversations start with an inquisition of my daughters about their studies as lead-in to yet another round of tales of BIL's natural brilliance in spite of teachers who tried to thwart his superstardom. (BIL is in his mid fifties, supported by mom and dad and has yet to start a career or even hold so much as a minimum wage job despite a college degree -- chosen for having zero possibility of gainful employment in the field by his own admission.)

You may think it sounds extreme, but sadly I can tell you it's absolutely true. It is beyond challenging to welcome the prospect of spending time with people who are unpleasant when you discuss literally any topic under the sun -- all while complaining you never spend time with them. OP, I urge you to take an outsider's look at what your own family celebrations look like and try to evaluate as objectively as possible what kind of an experience they really are for your son and his SO. They may not be as extreme as what I've outlined here but these types of things are common in extended family dynamics. A lot of singletons dread the holidays because they get quizzed about their love lives and family holidays often focus on doting on the small kids, possibly ignoring the lives of childless family members as irrelevant. These types of things are worth considering if you really want a solid ongoing relationship.
This sounds hilarious in theory but must be pure, unadulterated hell.
 


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