How do you handle the Holidays when...

[pat fan]

Good point - in my family (where we all get along very well but each have our own lives on the go) everybody arriving for dinner and leaving after it's done IS spending Christmas together. But in further posts OP has gone on to say that they and the DS are basically estranged, in which case I'd think him agreeing to come even for a short period of them would actually be a happy thing, but apparently not.

I hate to use the word estranged. If I text him, he'll chat back. We go over his way and bring coffee for him and his coworkers. Or get something at the farmers market he likes and drop it off. All that is fine.

I know there are different levels of togetherness that people have for families or holidays, but our family, small unit plus extended, is very close and thanksgiving night and Christmas are big deals. Lots of fun etc....no one is guilted into going or forced to attend, we want to be there.

As for Christmas here, we have stockings and presents and that's an hour at least! Then if there's a meal, I don't see how there's time to eat it. I don't want it rushed, I do want it relaxed and enjoyable. I'd rather we do it another day as neither son can come at the same time anyway.

It's difficult, but I am thankful for these boards. I get to vent, and I'm calmer now. I do have a great DH and it will be fine, whatever happens. I just miss my DS and how close we were when he was younger. And we didn't "do" anything to cause this. We have always told our kids we loved them no matter what and supported them 100%. There were outside influences that have caused this, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[lovemygoofy]

Holidays were all I had left with this son, so it's hurtful.

I think whatever underlying issues you have going on with your son or he has with you, you have more than the holidays. You have a son that is meeting you at least half way and extending some sort of olive branch. If he had cut you out completely, you wouldn't be getting notice of his holiday plans or even having conversation.

I find the holidays to be extremely difficult time for families who are having challenges. Everyone wants the tv holiday family version but the majority of the time it is forced, which causes even more stress.

You have more than just the holidays. You have a son that you love and maybe needs to understand what he has/had before he can appreciate it or maybe you all need to see each other as adults and converse in such a manner. Don't be willing to bend over and adjust every which way, which can cause more guilt. Tell him you love him and you'll miss him and there's always a place/plate for him and his SO.

My husband joined the army and left. Just left and didn't go for a visit for 5 years and probably called home 3x total. He needed away from the whole family to find his self and grow into the man he wanted to be and not what everyone wanted or expected. I say all this to say that now my husband and I visit his family regularly and keep in communication. His family loved him without pressure and waited. That's all you can do without pushing someone away further.

 

[ronandannette]

I hate to use the word estranged. If I text him, he'll chat back. We go over his way and bring coffee for him and his coworkers. Or get something at the farmers market he likes and drop it off. All that is fine.
I know there are different levels of togetherness that people have for families or holidays, but our family, small unit plus extended, is very close and thanksgiving night and Christmas are big deals. Lots of fun etc....no one is guilted into going or forced to attend, we want to be there.
As for Christmas here, we have stockings and presents and that's an hour at least! Then if there's a meal, I don't see how there's time to eat it. I don't want it rushed, I do want it relaxed and enjoyable. I'd rather we do it another day as neither son can come at the same time anyway.
It's difficult, but I am thankful for these boards. I get to vent, and I'm calmer now. I do have a great DH and it will be fine, whatever happens. I just miss my DS and how close we were when he was younger. And we didn't "do" anything to cause this. We have always told our kids we loved them no matter what and supported them 100%. There were outside influences that have caused this, and I'll leave it at that.

Well then, we're back where we started, and I'm glad you've had a chance to vent. There doesn't seem to be anything at all you CAN do - you just need to accept this is how it's going to be. Don't contort your entire day to try to facilitate his visit and make it more like you want it to be - it won't, and you'll end up even more frustrated. As I said in my first reply to you, I think you should go with your idea of a Christmas holiday.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

There is much more to this story, and frankly, I'm not airing it all here. Suffice it to say he told us last year that it was not our imagination, but that he has deliberately cut us out of his life the last few years. We knew he had, but hoped it was just becoming an adult and creating his own life and there was no issues made. We did not guilt him into anything event-wise but always invited him and said we were sorry he couldn't make it when the inevitable excuse came. Once he came clean it was deliberate, yes, my heart broke. In a million pieces. Not quite back together yet either.

That would be very painful to experience as a parent. I am so sorry this has happened to you and your family


Some people just do "flake out" as they get older. Others start experiencing mental illness and just start dropping out. I have no idea why your son doesn't want to be around you anymore, but I know it has to hurt. Again, I feel so badly for you.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I have quoted your last post, and have given my thoughts in the bold italic

If I text him, he'll chat back. We go over his way and bring coffee for him and his coworkers......

That doesn't sound even close to 'extranged', or close to anything to feel so upset about...

... but our family, small unit plus extended, is very close and thanksgiving night and Christmas are big deals. Lots of fun etc....no one is guilted into going or forced to attend, we want to be there.

YOU may feel that close to many family members, but you can not, and probably should not, assume that your grown male son feels the same. Not sure those kinds of assumptions or expectations are realistic or fair?

As for Christmas here, we have stockings and presents and that's an hour at least! Then if there's a meal, I don't see how there's time to eat it. I don't want it rushed, I do want it relaxed and enjoyable. I'd rather we do it another day as neither son can come at the same time anyway.

Same comment as above. As the wife and mother of two men, I can tell you that neither of them would be excited about any big 'stocking opening'.

It's difficult, ..... I just miss my DS and how close we were when he was younger.

I think that this statement is probably the most telling statement.
While I am quite sure, as parent who loves their sons, you do feel that way. I am not so sure that this is a realistic or fair expectation. You can't go back to 'when he was younger'.

 

[pat fan]

I have quoted your last post, and have given my thoughts in the bold italic

Yes, I never used the word estranged, a PP did and I said I didn't like to use that word. I don't consider us estranged, that's why I clarified that we DO have contact. I didn't want to give the wrong impression that there was zero contact.

The difficulty for me is that we were VERY close, and now it's a struggle for me to be in contact with him. No, I don't push. I text "Hey, we're your way, want coffee?" "We're going to the market, want to meet or we can bring you something?". Friendly, open stuff with no pressure and strings. From being super close to eggshells is why it's upsetting, and probably mostly so since I now know it's deliberate, not just a normal busy life. I am close to my other DS, so no, I don't think it's strange to expect to still have a close relationship with grown children.

Really? Stockings are everyone's favorite thing about Christmas in our family! When the family got bigger, my mom stopped buying presents for everyone and my DN said she didn't care about presents as long as she still got her stocking, LOL! But I'll ask him if he'd rather skip it.

Well then, we're back where we started, and I'm glad you've had a chance to vent. There doesn't seem to be anything at all you CAN do - you just need to accept this is how it's going to be. Don't contort your entire day to try to facilitate his visit and make it more like you want it to be - it won't, and you'll end up even more frustrated. As I said in my first reply to you, I think you should go with your idea of a Christmas holiday.

Yup, pulling up them old boots now No Holiday, as my other DS and new DIL will be coming over and I will just take what I get when I get it from DS and his SO, even if it's different times than his brother. It'll be Christmas in shifts!

I think I'll go to Home Depot/Walmart this weekend and make Christmas tackiness explode in my house. And watch cheesy Christmas movies.

Thanks again everyone

 

[LisaR]

Holidays were all I had left with this son, so it's hurtful.

No, no they aren't. See your own response below.

I hate to use the word estranged. If I text him, he'll chat back. We go over his way and bring coffee for him and his coworkers. Or get something at the farmers market he likes and drop it off. All that is fine.

Your son is giving you 2-3 hours on Christmas, he texts you, you visit for him when you're in his area....what else do you want? I understand that you aren't close by your standards, but like you said, you aren't estranged. There were obviously some serious issues in the past and, right or wrong, he holds you responsible. Based on that, he still talks to you and spends time with you over the holidays so it sounds like things are going well considering the past issues.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Am I reading the 'No Holiday' correctly???

 

[bellebud]

OP, just wanted to offer you a big hug

 

[ronandannette]

Am I reading the 'No Holiday' correctly???

Pretty sure OP means they won't be "skipping Christmas" and going away on vacation.

 

[cijay]

An adult child doesn't want to spend time at home?

Take the word 'child' out of that and you'll see the sense it makes to just let things happen.

 

[cijay]

So because he is an adult it's ok to blow off family? I am open to all kinds of re-arranging, but apparently that's not an option. Sorry, I'm just hurt and angry and don't get his behavior. And trust me, I've always said I would be flexible when they got older, but cutting family off is not what I was imagining my choice would be. Do you choose to not spend time with your parents and sibling on the holidays?

Actually, yes, I did on a few occasions for various reasons (not including the times I lived on the other side of the world). It's not necessarily 'blowing off' but as you've said a few times now, he's an adult.

 

[luvsJack]

Op, it will likely get better. Just continue letting him know youare still there. No pressure to even see him, just hello, how ya doing and I love you. Whatever is causing this may change or he may change and be back to the way it was.

Older DS was that way for awhile and I knew it was outside reasons that had nothing to do with us. Its all different now and while he is married and has his own family, we do have our family gatherings that once again includes all of us.

Honestly, I just planned holidays the best I could. Some years were more of a come and go thing when everyone stopped by when they could, sometimes it was seperate gatherings-time with younger ds and his family and time with older ds and his then wife. Sometimes on the holiday sometimes not. But whatever it was, we tried to just go with the flow and never tried to make him feel like the time wasn't enough.

Don't make a big deal about it. Enjoy the time you do have with him and don't pressure him to change things. He is your son and he loves you, he just will have to work this all out himself.

 

[Darcy03231]

An adult child doesn't want to spend time at home?

My MIL and mom were/are the best when it came to the Holidays. My MIL moved Christmas to the weekend prior or after Christmas and they didn't "do" Thanksgiving. My mom moved Christmas to Christmas night, since that worked for everyone. My family all does their own thing for Thanksgiving and gets together at night at my house for leftovers and pie.

My DS just said he's not coming home at all for Thanksgiving and only has 2-3 hours he will come for Christmas. I just want to cry. I just am at a loss as to how to handle this. Other than wanting to cry and go away for the holidays and skip them.

It's one thing to say, I live 12 hours away and can't swing a flight this year. Or the kids are too little, can we do Christmas a different day. None of that is the case. Just choosing to be with other people and choosing to not be with family.

You have to learn to accept that they are now adults with other demands on their time and respect their decisions. I'm not going to say it's easy, because its not. I haven't spent any time with my adult children for Thanksgiving in years. Last year we ended up celebrating Christmas on different days with the 3 kids that a fairly local because no one could make it all on the same day. We didn't have any of them on Christmas Day.

Your son isn't saying he won't spend any time with you on Christmas, he's giving you some time, just not the amount of time you want. I'd say 2-3 hours with at least an hour of travel time (and possibly more) is a fair compromise on his part.

What I've decided to do is treasure the time I do spent with them and not worry about what day it's on. 3 of the 4 live about an hour away (and one will be moving within the next 6 months and will require a plane ticket). The other one lives far enough away that it requires a plane ticket. She also works a job that it's impossible for her to take any vacation from mid-November through mid-January. All have limited vacation time. I make the most of the time they have to spend with me. I was lucky enough to spend a 10 day vacation with the younger two this summer. The one that lives a distance away took a week of her vacation time and came home this summer and spent it with us. For me, that time is more precious than a few hours on a holiday.

 

[cabanafrau]

Impossible for strangers who don't know the people or the specifics to be of much help. No doubt this has to hurt and has to be very important to you, OP. I recommend taking a couple big steps back, breathe deeply for a good long while, get nice and calm, realize the holiday or celebration of the holiday is of little importance and what you really want is a good relationship with your son. If you see that any type of petty holiday plans are hurting the possibility of a good relationship, let them go and keep your eye on the prize. Honestly examine in your own mind any hand you have played in building a barrier between you -- examine in your own mind, not necessarily for reading eyes here. Address anything on your end to the best of your abilities and make amends. Keep thinking about what you ultimately hope to gain and work towards that while avoiding any strings, pressure or petty details getting in your way.

Ultimately all you can do is address things on your end, give some honest voice to your efforts, your feelings and your hopes for a good relationship and see how it plays out. Best of luck to you.

 

[Hrhpd]

First of all, I can understand how painful it is when life starts to change. I think the transition of being the parent of children to being the parent of adults is one of the hardest times of peoples' lives with all the changes. How you handle it will set the tone for your relationship with your adult children for the future.

I suggest you read these posts very carefully. Also, a poster has another thread on here on how she wants to go to Thanksgiving with her friends instead of the family Thanksgiving. There are many explanations on there by people on why they don't want to spend time a ton of time with their parents, most of them very valid.

A PP said that they have given up on holidays with the relatives because they were expected to spend all day. Your son is giving you 3 hours, but that is not enough for you. You say that you are not guilting them into staying, but if we can read your displeasure over a message board, you can bet your son can feel the pressure to stay longer. Don't be like the parents that people are writing about and put your needs above understanding your now adult child's needs. It can be so hard when you are an adult to please both your parents and still have an independent life.

You may need to change those childhood traditions like the stocking opening to a more adult type Christmas gathering to make it more enticing to spend holidays with you.

It was pretty harsh to tell you that he has purposely cut down the time he spends with the family. But maybe he is trying to shock you into realizing things need to change. I can't think of how anybody can be more blatant about the fact that there are problems. It is easy to blame outside influences that made him cut the time he spends with the family, but outside influences wouldn't be so influential if there wasn't already underlying problems. I would listen to your son, really listen without blaming anybody else, and maybe admit to yourselves that both of you might have changes to make. Really look at all the posts that say Mom or MIL makes no attempt to make changes to make things better. Not saying you are totally to blame, but from what you have posted, it seems your son thinks your family is to blame, so you need to listen to what he is saying. Maybe what he wants is impossible and can't be changed, but maybe there is a possibility that you can make some changes to make things better.

 

[Disney Dynamite]

First of all, I can understand how painful it is when life starts to change. I think the transition of being the parent of children to being the parent of adults is one of the hardest times of peoples' lives with all the changes. How you handle it will set the tone for your relationship with your adult children for the future.

I suggest you read these posts very carefully. Also, a poster has another thread on here on how she wants to go to Thanksgiving with her friends instead of the family Thanksgiving. There are many explanations on there by people on why they don't want to spend time a ton of time with their parents, most of them very valid.

A PP said that they have given up on holidays with the relatives because they were expected to spend all day. Your son is giving you 3 hours, but that is not enough for you. You say that you are not guilting them into staying, but if we can read your displeasure over a message board, you can bet your son can feel the pressure to stay longer. Don't be like the parents that people are writing about and put your needs above understanding your now adult child's needs. It can be so hard when you are an adult to please both your parents and still have an independent life.

You may need to change those childhood traditions like the stocking opening to a more adult type Christmas gathering to make it more enticing to spend holidays with you.

It was pretty harsh to tell you that he has purposely cut down the time he spends with the family. But maybe he is trying to shock you into realizing things need to change. I can't think of how anybody can be more blatant about the fact that there are problems. It is easy to blame outside influences that made him cut the time he spends with the family, but outside influences wouldn't be so influential if there wasn't already underlying problems. I would listen to your son, really listen without blaming anybody else, and maybe admit to yourselves that both of you might have changes to make. Really look at all the posts that say Mom or MIL makes no attempt to make changes to make things better. Not saying you are totally to blame, but from what you have posted, it seems your son thinks your family is to blame, so you need to listen to what he is saying. Maybe what he wants is impossible and can't be changed, but maybe there is a possibility that you can make some changes to make things better.

I just wanted to second all of the above, especially the part I've bolded. To be completely honest, OP, you saying that your son "only has 2-3 hours he will come for Christmas" sort of struck a nerve with me. My MIL complains every Christmas that we only spend 3-4 hours with them. However, they live two hours away, so that "only 3-4 hours" is more like 7-8 hours for us once travel time is included. On top of that, there are other people we also like to visit on Christmas. My MIL doesn't realize that she's not far from my husband telling her that if 3-4 hours isn't good enough, we won't be visiting for Christmas. (Much like your situation, there's way more to the story when it comes to the relationship between my husband and his parents.) Please don't put your son in a position to have to decide if he will only visit 2-3 hours or not at all. As others have advised, enjoy the time you do have with him.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, I do think that you need to consider many of the comments here.
We are all only trying to help.

I still wonder what was meant by 'no Holiday'.
Christmas at home with family seems to be very, very, important to the OP, and I do not think that there are any indications that this would mean a 'holiday' as in a trip or vacation.

I am going to go ahead and mention that I think that 'no Holiday' means no Normal Rockwell Christmas Holiday, with the whole extended family together under one roof for a considerable length of time. And, of course, that expectation is not always realistic. If the OP is disappointed because this is not going to happen, then her expectations play a huge role in that. High expectations placed on others, which are more than the other persons are comfortable with, will definitely cause 'distance', and even 'extrangement'.

 

[quandrea]

All great advice here. My parents were continually dissatisfied with the amount of time we spent at family gatherings and the quality of that time. I too would give three or so hours for birthdays, holidays and casual visits. It was not enough for them. Long story short, there was a big blow out last Christmas, my parents never showed at my house for Christmas and they haven't spoken to me since. They just were never able to transition from being parents to a child to parents to an adult. Tread carefully.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I do have to say that, just me, when reading about the OP's relationship with this son, and the things that she tries to do to stay connected... Texting/calling out of the blue, bringing coffee and/or food, stockings, etc.. These all sound like a pretty clear mother/child dynamic.