How close is Riviera to being a sold out resort?

[OKW Lover]

You don't think they'll simply offer a way to turn a resale contract into direct through some new program?

I wonder if that would require a whole new closing and deed?

 

[Sandisw]

You don't think they'll simply offer a way to turn a resale contract into direct through some new program?

They gave th

You don't think they'll simply offer a way to turn a resale contract into direct through some new program?

They gave themselves a lot of options but IMO, I think they will go the route that allows resale owners to pay a trade fee for each reservation they want to change at 7 months.

 

[Brian Noble]

DVC has had a habit of following in the footsteps of other timeshare developers. And there are two for which resale points are restricted. They have different models.

Marriott requires that every third-party purchaser pay an "education fee" per point---this amounts to about 20% of the retail sales price, and is effectively tacked on to any resale purchase. There is no avoiding this fee, but once you pay it the points are treated as though they were developer. They also actively ROFR below a pretty well-known floor that is also about 25% of the retail price, and have never wavered from that.

Diamond (now part of Hilton) points bought from the developer are good through the entire system. Points bought resale are only good on the underlying "collection" or individual resort from which the points were drawn. It is possible to wash resale points, but doing so generally requires a developer purchase at a 1-to-1 ratio. So if you want to bring in 3,000 points, you have to buy another 3,000. I suspect you can sometimes negotiate that, but do not know for sure.

Personally, I do not see Disney following Marriott's model. I suspect it leaves too much money on the table. Diamond's model is more likely, but even then I am not certain.

There is another model that lots of developers use. Suppose you own at Resort X, and sales convinces you that you instead want to own at Resort Y. Equivalently: you own deeded and they sell you on the idea of the trust, or vice versa. In that case, you surrender your current ownership, buy (usually) more total points, and get a partial credit for what you currently own. Such "equity trades" are often smoke-and-mirrors, because you aren't really getting the purchase at a better price than you could have negotiated for paying cash, but c'est la vie.

It is also possible that DVC doesn't do any of these things, and tells resale purchasers to kick rocks. DVC, more than any other timeshare, emphasizes the "sense of belonging" that ownership brings. They have leaned hard into that sense of belonging only being possible by buying retail points. Allowing "belonging" in any other way would be a significant departure.

So, my money says that no such program is on the near-term horizon---say, not within the next five years, at least.

 

[skier_pete]

You don't think they'll simply offer a way to turn a resale contract into direct through some new program?

They don't need a new program - it's called ROFR.

 

[peder]

They don't need a new program - it's called ROFR.

From a customer perspective, it's an entirely different animal. If you have resale points, there's no way to turn them into direct points.

 

[Brian Noble]

But those aren't DVC's customers.

DVC's customers buy points from DVC.

 

[peder]

But those aren't DVC's customers.

DVC's customers buy points from DVC.

Right, and Disney is leaving money on the table by not converting resale customers, who account for a growing % of DVC owners.

 

[Brian Noble]

I think you underestimate how much they would have to charge to make washing resale points as financially rewarding as selling new points.

Alternatively, I think it is at least borderline insulting to suggest that DVC hasn't considered and rejected the idea already. Will they reconsider it later? Probably. Will they arrive at a different decision later? Maybe.

But this isn't some super-secret plan that if only they knew to do it, they would.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Right, and Disney is leaving money on the table by not converting resale customers, who account for a growing % of DVC owners.

This has been discussed ad nauseam on these boards. I agree that it may happen someday….. but not with this current management team.

The current team is focused on building and selling new resorts and then using ROFR to target select “sold out” and then putting those points on “sale” direct.

In the future, if they don’t have enough new resort inventory to sell then they could look for other revenue levers. Nothing drives corporate behavior like an executive who needs to hit short term profitability KPIs to achieve a performance bonus.

 

[Mouseforward]

I don’t expect any washing of points to ever occur. Poly Tower would have been a great opportunity to offer a point wash and make it restricted for existing customers. I was thinking they would say for x dollars a point you can promote your points.

Unless they pull a very fast CCV conversion we are going to be done with WDW unrestricted new points other than overpriced sold out points.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I don’t expect any washing of points to ever occur. Poly Tower would have been a great opportunity to offer a point wash and make it restricted for existing customers. I was thinking they would say for x dollars a point you can promote your points.

Unless they pull a very fast CCV conversion we are going to be done with WDW unrestricted new points other than overpriced sold out points.

This is intended to be a playful joke:

DVC Members: The direct price is too high! r
Restrictions are terrible! The point charts are obscene! We will never buy!

DVC: So….We are going to convert half of Yacht Club to DVC…. but it will have a point chart that reflects current prices and it will be restricted and possibly part of a trust….

DVC Members: Take my money!

 

[peder]

I think you underestimate how much they would have to charge to make washing resale points as financially rewarding as selling new points.

Alternatively, I think it is at least borderline insulting to suggest that DVC hasn't considered and rejected the idea already. Will they reconsider it later? Probably. Will they arrive at a different decision later? Maybe.

But this isn't some super-secret plan that if only they knew to do it, they would.

It’s more about the ratio of resale to direct activity IMO and the fact that increasingly many resale buyers today never considered buying direct at all because the internet makes research about resale very easy. So there’s a large pool of DVC owners (and this pool is growing) that are undermonetized. And that pool is a separate market segment, meaning that it’s not really cannibalizing DVC direct sales by offering a way of upgrading resale points to direct status.

It’s a problem that didn’t really exist ten years ago because (1) the ratio of direct to resale was more in favor of direct and (2) resale restrictions didn’t exist, so there was almost no incentive for customers to want to “wash” their points (DVC hadn’t yet “created” this market).