Homeschooling Debate

[auntpolly]

I wonder how sensitive I am, really?


Some people just like to engage in discussion the topic.

I must be sensitive about being called sensitive.


I need a hug .

Oh Lisa, you're sensiitive - in the good kind of way -- about other people's feelings and not wanting to offend. We should all be so sensitive.

 

[Brier Rose]

About the evolution thing - I really think that if you feel very strongly that your child not be taught evolution, that Christian school or homeschooling is a good option for you.

I would rather you take it upon yourself to teach your kids what you believe than try to force it into the public schools.

Don't know if this was directed at me, but I will be teaching my children the theory of evolution...strong emphasis on the theory. Even though we don't personally believe in it, as we believe God created all life, I still think it's important for all children to know all view points, not just one.

As a side note...I would never want to force anyone to be taught religion, but I still thinks is serves a purpose in overall lessons in general, not just science), because it is such a large part of our world.

I'm not Catholic or Jewish for instance, but if some information that was relevant to the subject being taught happened to be from such sorces I just can't see leaving it out of the overall discussion.

I like to explore all the options, you know! Guess that's how I wound up homeschooling in the first place!

Ugh! Guess I didn't realize getting in what a debate this was gonna be. (not this subject, but the whole thread)!

It's not too much fun...think I'm out too.

I wish everyone a safe and wonderful school year... however you go about it!

 

[auntpolly]

Don't know if this was directed at me,

No, not at all, just making another observation of time I think homeschooling might be justified.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Oh Lisa, you're sensiitive - in the good kind of way -- about other people's feelings and not wanting to offend. We should all be so sensitive.

AuntPolly--you are a sweety!

 

[auntpolly]

AuntPolly--you are a sweety!

No, it just seems like that until you get to know me better....but thanks for saying it.

I just speak the truth -- you're a very nice person.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No, it just seems like that until you get to know me better....but thanks for saying it.

I just speak the truth -- you're a very nice person.

aww...I'm sure you are nice. I like the honest people. It's the ones who are nice, but aren't honest that I get into trouble with in the real world. The honest ones--I get along with real well.

 

[disneymom3]

I decided to step out of this debate because I know I'm not changing anyone's mind and I really don't find this a very debatable topic for me. I don't think that Homeschooling is a very good idea. If you think that this is a person being "just so superior", then, you are just too sensitive.

Auntpolly, in case you are still reading, I just wanted to clarify that I didn't say any person thought they were "so superior" but....Hmmm, can't figure out how to express myself in a clear way for the rest of my thought so I am going to let it go. Mainly, I wanted you to know I was not at all trying to be snotty. Honestly, doesn't affect me a bit if others think homeschooling is not a good idea. For us, it is and that is what I need to concern myself with. That and that my state legislature doesn't try to get rid of my right to do it.

Take care. No offense meant. Sorry if it came out wrong.

 

[golfgal]

Sorry, but I just don't see that as the case in most schools.

Talking in class! Don't think so. After a student is finished with their work they are supposed to sit quietly or read a book.

Most schools here have gone to quiet lunches...meaning no talking during lunch.

At my little brother's school..(yes, I have a 15 year old brother..long story), the boys and girls are even separated on the school buses.

Recess has even been done away with for all but K5-2nd grade.

I still just can't see how bits and pieces of conversations at little moments in the day equate such a superior social experience to any a homeschooled child could possibly have.

I really don't see how they could or should for that matter be doing that much talking during class.

I think you need to get out and visit your local school. You sure have a lot of misinformation to spread around. Most schools do NOT operate like this. Go into classrooms these days and you will see a lot of interaction with the kids. Most teachers will have some instruction time where the kids are not suppose to talk, but then they often break into groups to work on projects, assignments, etc. At our kids' school, the older kids spend a lot of time working with the younger kids on many projects,etc.

It sounds like there are some different rules going on at your brother's school that are NOT the norm for the rest of the world. Our lunch room certainly isn't a quite lunch room, not by any means. The kids K-8 all have recess.

For the person that said that Harvard recruits homeschooled kids, they may recruit them but we have 2 friends, a husband and a wife, that are professors at Harvard and this subject came up in a conversation. They both said they have talked with their colleagues and they disliked having homeschooled kids in their classes because they can't get them to participate, they don't interact with the other students and it makes their job a whole lot harder because of that. So, go ahead thinking that Harvard loves homeschoolers, but the professors don't.

 

[golfgal]

golfgal, just thought I would let you know that in MN (where I see you are from) we do have mandatory standardized testing annually. If a child falls below the 30th percentile parents are required to seek remedial help for that child.

Yes, the students have to be tested, but NOT by an independent person, meaning a parent can administer and grade the test. Sorry, but that is NOT accountablility. The students should have to go somewhere and take their tests given by a certified teacher, administrator or someone just not associated with the homeschooled kids. The results should be tabulated by an outside source and not graded by the parents. It is NOT required to do this in MN, although it is recommended. Some districts might have other standards, but it is not a statewide requirement. Also, parents are not required to show proof of a childs grades, they only need to submit them. Sure, all my kids can be an A student if I turn in the grades with nothing to back them up (not saying you do that, but I DO know some parents that do that).

 

[Puffy2]

If you don't mind me asking, what school was this?

I ask because we haven't looked a very many schools in GA besides University of Georgia.

I wonder if these same schools hold the same prejudice against private christian schools.

It was implied by an admission rep at Agnes Scott College. ASC is a Presbyterian College so I don't think it was intended as a "prejudice" and I wouldn't call it as such. The impression that I got was that the admission rep. found secular material (books used in the public schools) as being more diverse and broad in their presentation, and therefore more desirable. I think it could be said that they encourage study of theology, the Bible, religion and religious themes - just that it should be studied separately from your other core subjects.

I've seen books from both (secular and Christian) and I have to say, that a lot of the Christian text books are overkill on the religious talk -sometimes at a detriment to the subject matter. History is often presented in a prejudice light, science is sometimes skewed and one text from Bob Jones Univ. out right lied about the Catholic faith in one of their Spanish texts. The prejudice of these texts is often in the presentation of the material and it can be grossly obvious - for instance, IF evolution is discussed it is discussed in a way as to make the reader think that it's all a bunch of hooey. That's not education - that's indoctrination.

 

[Skatermom23]

I think you need to get out and visit your local school. You sure have a lot of misinformation to spread around. Most schools do NOT operate like this.


I don't think you should tell people that they are spreading misinformation....Do you have the facts for all 50 states? In Md and Va, only the kids in elementary school get any type of recess. What the previous poster stated about quiet time in class, at lockers, at lunch, on the bus...This is the norm in large districts. That's how they control the kids. Haven't you been reading the news...they need to control the situations, ie..the kids.. they do that by telling them to be quiet..... You should feel extremely lucky to be in a different situation. However for those that feel that they don't have your luck, then it is wonderful that they have options....

 

[golfgal]

Just for clarification, the theory of evolution has NOT been proven either, that is why it is still a THEORY. I certainly believe that people, animals and plants have evolved from millions of years of environmental influences, there is just too much evidence to suggest otherwise, however, I also feel that we are not here by chance, which is what the theory of evolution says-elements came together under perfect conditions to create life. I think of the process of creating a human and how one egg and one sperm come together to form life and can't help but think there has to be some kind of divine intervention in this process because it works too well to be a freak of nature, which is what we all are if you only believe in the theory of evolution.

 

[Puffy2]

, I also feel that we are not here by chance, which is what the theory of evolution says-elements came together under perfect conditions to create life.

If you choose to believe that it came about as chance, fine. As a homeschool mom, I believe in evolution AND I believe that a higher power (God) set that evolution into motion. I truely don't understand why so many Christians get all bent out of shape about the evolution thing - unless they are trying to hold on to a belief that the Bible is word for word truth and that "God" created the world in 7 days. (?) If so, perhaps they could benefit from a course by The Teaching Company on the Old Testiment - excellent college lecture series about historical Biblical analysis.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I think you need to get out and visit your local school. You sure have a lot of misinformation to spread around. Most schools do NOT operate like this.


I don't think you should tell people that they are spreading misinformation....Do you have the facts for all 50 states? In Md and Va, only the kids in elementary school get any type of recess. What the previous poster stated about quiet time in class, at lockers, at lunch, on the bus...This is the norm in large districts. That's how they control the kids. Haven't you been reading the news...they need to control the situations, ie..the kids.. they do that by telling them to be quiet..... You should feel extremely lucky to be in a different situation. However for those that feel that they don't have your luck, then it is wonderful that they have options....

This isn't the norm in our school district. (NYC public schools)

 

[JennyMominRI]

Just for clarification, the theory of evolution has NOT been proven either, that is why it is still a THEORY. .

I'm not sure that anyone on this thread stated that Evolution is fact.. I stated that it was science, which it certainly is .
I believe in G-d. I do believe that he had a hand in things

 

[Brier Rose]

I think you need to get out and visit your local school. You sure have a lot of misinformation to spread around. Most schools do NOT operate like this. Go into classrooms these days and you will see a lot of interaction with the kids. Most teachers will have some instruction time where the kids are not suppose to talk, but then they often break into groups to work on projects, assignments, etc. At our kids' school, the older kids spend a lot of time working with the younger kids on many projects,etc.

It sounds like there are some different rules going on at your brother's school that are NOT the norm for the rest of the world. Our lunch room certainly isn't a quite lunch room, not by any means. The kids K-8 all have recess.

No I don't need to visit any schools. My DD has plenty of friends who go to "real" school, as well as many family members with whom I discuss school issues often.

It may not be the way it is in your area or school, but what I said is most certainly normal here.

BTW, My DD has not always been homeschooled. I am very familer with the working of a normal school day, at least where she used to attend, as I spent a great deal of time there as a volunteer.

Also just wanted to note that my brother's school is 3 hours away from where we live, so I don't think it's just a local thing.

I may be "spreading" information based on a fairly small pool I suppose, but misinformation it is not!

 

[disneymom3]

Hmmm, spreading misinformation.....


And yet we homeschoolers are expected to sit quietly by while people tell us that the norm for homeschooled kids is that they will grow up to be social outcasts with limited vocabularies, no knowledge of actual science and their college professors will hate them. Give me a break.

And for the record, I know over 50 homeschooling families personally in the state of MN and none of them grade their own kids tests. I know a FEW who administer the CA test (which I don't remember the name of) but the vast majority of them either go to, meet with, or have a certified tester come to them.

 

[Planogirl]

The structure of most public school classes is quite similar to those at large colleges from my experience. That can be a handicap but at the same time it can help prepare a high school student for what lies ahead.

 

[Puffy2]

The structure of most public school classes is quite similar to those at large colleges from my experience. That can be a handicap but at the same time it can help prepare a high school student for what lies ahead.

I'm not sure what you are referring to there.

High school is nothing like college as far as the "lack of freedom/freedom" aspect goes (in college generally the professor doesn't give a rat's behind if the student shows up or not or if the kid "chews gum" or brings a cola to class or gets up to used the bathroom or whatever. - also, in college, most people want to be there. In high school this just isn't the case. and although "discussion" is sometimes encouraged in high school - often if the teacher allows too much of it she/he looses control of the classroom (kids going off subject, ect...).

 

[Puffy2]

And for the record, I know over 50 homeschooling families personally in the state of MN and none of them grade their own kids tests. I know a FEW who administer the CA test (which I don't remember the name of) but the vast majority of them either go to, meet with, or have a certified tester come to them.

We have done the IOWA test for five years now (we test every year even though the state only requires every 3). The first two years I gave the test myself and it was sent off to be scored. For the last 3 years we test in a group setting (this past year it was held at a local church's activity building - about 30 kids all tested together in a big room , sitting at large tables) which is better for the kids to have a more accurate testing experience to prepare them for tests like the SAT.

And you know, people always talk about the "social" thing. I've known plenty of public school kids who are anti-social - bullies, criminals, loud, obnoxious, throwing things on the bus, destructive to school property. Did the public school environment "create" those anit-social children? It goes both ways.