homeschool ? Please help.

Every state has an educational requirement and all PS and private school kids have to take tests to ensure schools are meeting those requirements.

In 22 states the requirement does not exist for HS children. Some fall through the cracks and are not properly educated to the state's requirements. Why should the children and parents in those 22 states get a pass? What of those who do not meet the requirement?

No, private school are not required by law to test and/or report to the state or local dept of ed or any other governing body. I have repeatedly explained that establishing a private school is how many can/do get around home school laws, or to teach per their religious beliefs/doctrine instead of state dept of ed guidelines.


Of those 22 states that do not require testing, most do require some sort of
reporting/accountability to the state/local school system etc.
You just don't like the idea of reports, portfolios etc so you discount those and claim that there is no accountability in those states.

When you get an answer you don't like, you ignore it and claim we never answered it.

The only time that you acknowledge an answer is when you seem to feel it helps your argument against homeschooling.
 
No, private school are not required by law to test and/or report to the state or local dept of ed or any other governing body. I have repeatedly explained that establishing a private school is how many can/do get around home school laws, or to teach per their religious beliefs/doctrine instead of state dept of ed guidelines.


Of those 22 states that do not require testing, most do require some sort of
reporting/accountability to the state/local school system etc.
You just don't like the idea of reports, portfolios etc so you discount those and claim that there is no accountability in those states.

There is no accountability in some states... I will say it flat out..In Ca, you simply file a R4 private school affidavit once a year... That is all that you do, period...
I certainly didn't do it to allow myself to teach religious doctrines to my kids and it's flat out wrong to state that is the reason why people do.

Here are the legal options for homeschooling in Ca
Legal Option:

Qualify as a private school
Use a private tutor
Enroll in a private school satellite program, taking "independent study"

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=CA

Now RI is listed as one of those states with stricter laws...In RI it is up to the school board to decide the *rules*..In warwick I had to file with the superintendant once a year.. I had to list the subjects they would learn..I had to submit grades twice a year... Grades I generated myself.. There was no testing, no portfolios, no nothing and this is a in a state that the map shows as having a high level of regulation
 
There is no accountability in some states... I will say it flat out..In Ca, you simply file a R4 private school affidavit once a year... That is all that you do, period...
I certainly didn't do it to allow myself to teach religious doctrines to my kids and it's flat out wrong to state that is the reason why people do.
Here are the legal options for homeschooling in Ca
Legal Option:

Qualify as a private school
Use a private tutor
Enroll in a private school satellite program, taking "independent study"

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=CA

Jenny....I never said,nor implied that is what most people/homeschoolers do.
I repeatedly used establishing a private school as an example of how that small subset of homschoolers can/have/will get around any established homeschool laws. However Mary2e continuously wants to claim that private schools are somehow always held to high accademic standards, testing, state monitoring etc.
 
Jenny....I never said,nor implied that is what most people/homeschoolers do.
I repeatedly used establishing a private school as an example of how that small subset of homschoolers can/have/will get around any established homeschool laws. However Mary2e continuously wants to claim that private schools are somehow always held to high accademic standards, testing, state monitoring etc.

I know, I realized that my post may not have been clear..I was refering to those people who really do believe that homeschoolers don't want regulation so that they can religiously indoctrinate kids
 

The rules for home schooling in Texas - Teach citizenship

The rules for private schools in Texas - Teach citizenship and check hearing and vision once a year

I home school. If I wanted my kids to have the same education as public school kids, I would send them there. Since I don't agree with what the public schools are teaching, why would I want my kids held to their standards? I hate the way Texas has become all about the TAKS Test. My children deserve better than just knowing how to pick the best answer out of four.

My boys will be nine this month. The subjects we will do this year are Math, Reading, Science, Japanese, Spanish, Writing, Grammar and Spelling.

I am not responsible for other home schoolers anymore than a public school parent is responsible for other public school kids. There are good and bad parents everywhere.
 
I know, I realized that my post may not have been clear..I was refering to those people who really do believe that homeschoolers don't want regulation so that they can religiously indoctrinate kids

Cool... I really thought you misunderstood my point for a min.Which you normally don't do. This topic is so close to my heart that I do admit I tend to take things very personally.
 
/
No, private school are not required by law to test and/or report to the state or local dept of ed or any other governing body. I have repeatedly explained that establishing a private school is how many can/do get around home school laws, or to teach per their religious beliefs/doctrine instead of state dept of ed guidelines.

Of those 22 states that do not require testing, most do require some sort of
reporting/accountability to the state/local school system etc.
You just don't like the idea of reports, portfolios etc so you discount those and claim that there is no accountability in those states.

When you get an answer you don't like, you ignore it and claim we never answered it.

The only time that you acknowledge an answer is when you seem to feel it helps your argument against homeschooling.
If that is the case, then all schools should be held to the same academic standards. All of them and all students.

There should be a minimum educational requirement that for all students and tests given to ensure these students are meeting those requirements.

I really don't like that you folks have portrayed me as anti-home schooling when I have never said as much, and even praised parents who are doing a good job.

But, my lack of knowledge caused me to ask a question, and while it took a few days to get a straight answer, that answer has given me the incentive to take some action.

I'm off to write to my congressman and representative to make sure all children, no matter who is educating them, are meeting a uniform standard.
 
If that is the case, then all schools should be held to the same academic standards. All of them and all students.

There should be a minimum educational requirement that for all students and tests given to ensure these students are meeting those requirements.

I really don't like that you folks have portrayed me as anti-home schooling when I have never said as much, and even praised parents who are doing a good job.

But, my lack of knowledge caused me to ask a question, and while it took a few days to get a straight answer, that answer has given me the incentive to take some action.

I'm off to write to my congressman and representative to make sure all children, no matter who is educating them, are meeting a uniform standard.


FTR, I don't think your anti-homeschooling..
It's not a legislative issues however, Homeschoolers rights are guaranteed by Supreme Court rulings.
 
Thank you. It can't hurt to write though in the event something can be done.
 
It's not my job to monitor home schoolers. That is what I pay my taxes for.
As a public school parent and proponent of public schooling, you should do what ever you can to ensure that method of teaching is monitored adequately and stay the hell out of my business.

As a public school parent, I agree with this.

If a parent decides that s/he can better educate them, good luck to them and let them deal with the consequences. I don't think that the county will fall apart because a handful of families 'forgot' to teach music or the effects of the Aztecs on today's society. `No offense to you homeschoolers, I don't not want my money to pay for monitors for the homeschooled. Can you imagine the money that schools would have to spend going into everyone's home to make sure they are being educated up the public school standards? Some public schools don't have enough money as it is.

Besides, most of the homeschools don't agree with the public school standard - they want their children better educated than that.
 
Thank you. It can't hurt to write though in the event something can be done.

Are you talking about having some sort of National Curriculum? The UK does this ,but even in the UK there are exemptions for Homeschools.. There are little to no laws regulating homeschoolers in the UK
The problem you will run into eventually is that that US Supreme Ct ruled a long time ago that mandatory educational laws violate sep of church and state... Even now there are not manditory educational laws that apply to every child in the US only mandatory attendance laws . Those laws start anywhere between age 5 and 8 years of age in different states and ending at 14 to 18 ..The average state does not require schooling after 16...Good luck with trying to set national requirements when kids can drop out of ANY school at 16.
 
As a public school parent, I agree with this.

If a parent decides that s/he can better educate them, good luck to them and let them deal with the consequences. I don't think that the county will fall apart because a handful of families 'forgot' to teach music or the effects of the Aztecs on today's society. `No offense to you homeschoolers, I don't not want my money to pay for monitors for the homeschooled. Can you imagine the money that schools would have to spend going into everyone's home to make sure they are being educated up the public school standards? Some public schools don't have enough money as it is.

Besides, most of the homeschools don't agree with the public school standard - they want their children better educated than that.

This is why generally speaking ,Homeschoolers don't want money from the state... With money comes regulation ,and rightly so.. You have a right to hold public schools accountable for the money you put into them..

I spent thousands of dollars of my own money when I homeschooled my kids. We never got a penny from the state
 
The states that test and scrutinze should give diplomas to those students. It's simply an alternate method of teaching which can be just as successful or unsuccessfulu as other methods. The key is scrutiny. And this is what HSers don't want.


You know what?? I don't WANT a diploma from the local school district. My children's education is going to be far far superior to what they would receive there and a diploma from them would be worthless to me. Any idiot can make it through our local highschool. Besides which, schools have enough trouble getting enough money for the students they already oversee. How on earth are you planning to finance this little venture of yours??

You should read some things by John Holt. I think it would be quite interesting for you. This man believes the ACLU should step in and overturn mandatory attendence laws because they violate not only the civil rights of the child but also those of their parents. You have not seen even CLOSE to militant homeschooling on this thread:rotfl:
 
Every state has an educational requirement and all PS and private school kids have to take tests to ensure schools are meeting those requirements.

Okay, but have you not noticed that many of those public schoolers FAIL the tests? Not all of them are doing well.

As for writing your congressperson, good luck with that. It is important for all of us to let our voices be heard, but I have to warn you that HSLDA that sha_lyn linked to earlier has some very busy lawyers who are never going to let what you want happen. As well as plenty of other people in well respected fields.
 
Thank you. It can't hurt to write though in the event something can be done.

Please feel free to do so.

That is your right.

My state and local government knowledge is a little fuzzy at the moment---but as far as a national standard...education is governed at the state level. Hence the variation of requirements from state to state.

And I do wish you would cease in saying it took a long time to get your initial questions answered. You were answered several times. ETA: You asked initially around noon on August 2nd on page 6....you reasked on Page 7 about 3-4 hours later b/c you weren't responded too...and were immediately answered regarding how accountability varies from state to state. I'm not quite sure--but in the DIS world....4 hours isn't a couple of days, nor a long time to respond to an inquiry.

A national "standard" would be lovely--but who determines what is the appropriate "standard".


And why in the world would anyone fight for the status quo and being average or standard--as opposed to what is right and what is best for THEIR child?
 
Are you talking about having some sort of National Curriculum? The UK does this ,but even in the UK there are exemptions for Homeschools.. There are little to no laws regulating homeschoolers in the UK

NOT true. There are plenty of laws regulating homeschoolers.

UK Homeschooling Law[/quote said:
Responsibility of Parents

The responsibility of parents is clearly established in section 7 of the Education Act 1996 (previously section 36 of the Education Act 1944):

The parent of every child of compulsory school age shall cause him to receive efficient full-time education suitable


1. to his age, ability and aptitude, and
2. to any special educational needs he may have, either by regular attendance at school or otherwise.

If the monitors of homeschoolers - and they ARE monitored - do not feel that a person if meeting the achievements for their age and ability, they can require that the child is more closely monitored, taught by qualified educators (although not necessarily in a school setting) and parents CAN, as a last resort, be forced to return the child to a public school.

I know someone who homeschools her child. There are a LOT of hoops that she has to jump through, and a huge paper trail that she must maintain to show that she is teaching her child, and that she is teaching him skills which are suitable for that child's ability. Whilst they don't have to teach the national curriculum per se, they do have to meet standards that are equal to a school child of the same age and ability and these include things like physical education, personal, social and health education, and citizenship.

Very few people homeschool in the UK.

Further, the UK National Curriculum offers a lot of flexibility even within schools. It is not "kids in 4th grade must learn about the second world war" - it is broader standards like, "pupils must be able to discuss a historical conflict, giving basic causes for the beginnings of said conflict. Discussions of the impacts, including geographical settings, of the conflict are also recognized". So you can teach those children about the Romans, about Iraq, about the American Civil War...it's about developing skills, rather than specific knowledges.
 
NOT true. There are plenty of laws regulating homeschoolers.


Responsibility of Parents

The responsibility of parents is clearly established in section 7 of the Education Act 1996 (previously section 36 of the Education Act 1944):

The parent of every child of compulsory school age shall cause him to receive efficient full-time education suitable


1. to his age, ability and aptitude, and
2. to any special educational needs he may have, either by regular attendance at school or otherwise.

.[/QUOTE]

and here is how the monitoring happens

Definition of Suitable Education

An interpretation of some terminology used in the Education Act 1944 (replaced by the 1996 Act) was provided by an appeal case which was brought at Worcester Crown Court in 1981 (Harrison & Harrison v Stevenson). In this case, the judge defined a ‘suitable education’ as one which was such as:

1. to prepare the children for life in modern civilised society, and
2. to enable them to achieve their full potential.
The diversity of modern society and styles of education give parents considerable freedom of choice in enabling children to achieve their potential. In the case of R v Secretary of State for Education and Science, ex parte Talmud Torah Machzikei Hadass School Trust (1985) (Times, 12 April 1985) Mr Justice Woolf held that:
education is ‘suitable’ if it primarily equips a child for life within the community of which he is a member, rather than the way of life in the country as a whole, as long as it does not foreclose the child’s options in later years to adopt some other form of life if he wishes to do so.
Examining the meaning of the expression full-time shows the hours spent on teaching in schools are not relevant to home education, which generally takes place on a one-to-one basis, or in small groups, in very different conditions.

Provided the child is not a registered pupil at a school, the parent is not required to provide any particular type of education, and is under no obligation to

have premises equipped to any particular standard
have any specific qualifications
cover the same syllabus as any school
adopt the National Curriculum
make detailed plans in advance
observe school hours, days or terms
have a fixed timetable
give formal lessons
reproduce school type peer group socialisation
match school, age-specific standards
seek permission to educate 'otherwise'
take the initiative in informing the local authority
have regular contact with the local authority


Duty of Local Authorities

Sections 437 to 443 of the Education Act 1996 place a duty upon local education authorities to take certain actions if it appears that a child is not being properly educated.

If it appears to a local education authority that a child of compulsory school age in their area is not receiving suitable education, either by regular attendance at school or otherwise, they shall serve a notice in writing on the parent requiring him to satisfy them within the period specified in the notice that the child is receiving such education. (s 437 (1))
The local authority’s legal duty is concerned solely with children who appear not to be receiving suitable education. Beyond this, nothing in the Act requires a local authority to carry out regular monitoring of provision where a child is receiving education otherwise than at school.

However, case law (Phillips v Brown, Divisional Court [20 June 1980, unreported]) has established that a local authority may initially ask parents who are educating their children at home for information in order to assess whether it appears to the local authority that no suitable education is being provided.


In other words, the UK gov does not step in until there is a suspicion of educational neglect
 
In other words, the UK gov does not step in until there is a suspicion of educational neglect

Homeschooled children, at least in my county, are monitored regularly. I know my friend has her child monitored at least twice termly (6 times a year), during which time her paperwork is also checked to ensure that her child is being taught appropriate material. I suppose some LEAs could be more slack about it but the legal ramifications of a child falling behind for them are so great that they invest a lot of time ensuring that standards ARE met.
 
Homeschooled children, at least in my county, are monitored regularly. I know my friend has her child monitored at least twice termly (6 times a year), during which time her paperwork is also checked to ensure that her child is being taught appropriate material. I suppose some LEAs could be more slack about it but the legal ramifications of a child falling behind for them are so great that they invest a lot of time ensuring that standards ARE met.

Your friend is probably choosing to be monitored... There are always programs out there to monitor people if people wish to be.

I think the home education laws are pretty clear. I posted the relevent acts

I wasn't knocking a national curriculum BTW.. I think that in a country as large as this one it would be hard to institute

Relevent UK laws
http://www.seangabb.co.uk/academic/homeschooling.htm

This legal duty placed on Local Education Authorities applies only where children appear not to be receiving a "suitable" education. Where no evidence is available that they are not receiving such an education, they have no legal right to seek information from parents. This is not an absolute bar on making enquiries. In the case of Philips v Brown (1980), the courts held that the Local Education Authority is entitled to ask parents for information as a basis for making the decision as to whether the education they are providing is efficient. If the parent fails to provide information, it could be concluded that prima facie the parents are in breach of their duty.(15)

But the Local Education Authority is not allowed to specify the nature and presentation of such information. Nor can they carry into their enquiry assumptions and expectations based on their experience of formal schooling. On the Parent Centre website, maintained by the Department for Education and Skills, the authorities confirm that:

LEAs have no automatic right of access to parents' home. Parents may wish to offer an alternative way of demonstrating that they are providing suitable education, for example through showing examples of work and agreeing to a meeting at another venue.(16)
Where a child is registered with a school, but the parents wish to withdraw him for teaching at home, there is a formal procedure to be followed. The Education (Pupil Registration) Regulation 9(c), 1995 sets out the conditions under which a child may be removed from the admission register of a school. His name must be removed if:

he has ceased to attend the school and the proprietor has received written notification from the parent that the pupil is receiving education otherwise than at school.(17)
Again, parents do not need to seek permission from the Local Education Authority of their intention to educate a child at home. Nor are they obliged to inform the Local Education Authority - though the proprietor of the school must report the removal of the child within ten school days.

There is an exception to this rule in the case of children registered at a school providing for special needs. Here, consent must be obtained from the Local Education Authority before removing a child - see the Education (Pupil Registration) Regulation 9(2), 1995. The purpose of this exception, though, is simply to ensure that the Local Education Authority can maintain continuity in its provision for special educational needs. It is not intended to be used to prevent education at home.
 

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