homeschool ? Please help.

[Kath2003]

Your friend is probably choosing to be monitored... There are always programs out there to monitor people if people wish to be.

I assure you, she would love to tell you the stories of what she had to go through with her LEA just to get her child removed from school, let alone the constant visits and paper trail she has to keep, as a WORKING single mother.

I think the home education laws are pretty clear. I posted the relevent acts

I wasn't knocking a national curriculum BTW.. I think that in a country as large as this one it would be hard to institute

There are basic standards. However, as I said, the penalties for LEAs (Local Education Authorities) for allowing a child to fall behind are huge, so in practise they are MUCH more stringent than on that document. As a result, very few parents homeschool their children because it is very difficult (and also costly - buying materials for one child costs more than bulk-buying the way schools can) and you get a lot of hassle and you spend a LOT of time doing paperwork (you have to plan schemes of work - of course, so do teachers, but they are a) paid for it and b) able to re-use these schemes of work or adapt them slightly year after year. Homeschoolers spend maybe 10-12 hours planning a week's worth of work, only to never be able to use that again.)

 

[JennyMominRI]

I belonged to groups with UK homeschoolers..Only 2 of them reported anything to anyone..The two exception was one with special needs and another who was told by her school that she had to jump through hoops to do it... She stopped soon after.... I've known at least 30 UK homeschoolers

 

[Kath2003]

I belonged to groups with UK homeschoolers..Only 2 of them reported anything to anyone..The two exception was one with special needs and another who was told by her school that she had to jump through hoops to do it... She stopped soon after.... I've known at least 30 UK homeschoolers

That may be their experiences. I know many people who have found homeschooling too much hassle and sent their children back to school, or to an independent school

Homeschooling is very uncommon in the UK and often for a good reason. If the people you spoke to are lucky enough to have had positive experiences with their LEA, well done to them. That is certainly not the experience of the people I've known in 2 LEAs who have been hassled endlessly (and all but one have given up on it before the child reached secondary school age).

Further, non-National Curriculum qualifications are not recognized by employers and the majority of higher education providers (and those who do often require applicants to sit equivalenced tests), so your children essentially have to learn the National Curriculum and take the exams for those subjects anyway - one of many reasons why homeschooling rarely continues beyond age 11.

 

[sha_lyn]

Please feel free to do so.

That is your right.

My state and local government knowledge is a little fuzzy at the moment---but as far as a national standard...education is governed at the state level. Hence the variation of requirements from state to state.

And I do wish you would cease in saying it took a long time to get your initial questions answered. You were answered several times. ETA: You asked initially around noon on August 2nd on page 6....you reasked on Page 7 about 3-4 hours later b/c you weren't responded too...and were immediately answered regarding how accountability varies from state to state. I'm not quite sure--but in the DIS world....4 hours isn't a couple of days, nor a long time to respond to an inquiry.

A national "standard" would be lovely--but who determines what is the appropriate "standard".


And why in the world would anyone fight for the status quo and being average or standard--as opposed to what is right and what is best for THEIR child?

Thank you for looking through the post. I was planning on doing that as soon as I could get back to the computer.

Mary2e kept asking until she got the answer she wanted which was Jenny's answer of "nothing"... which BTW I disagree with considering the information I found about NY (which BTW was the only state I looked at. I just picked 1 state that was rated as hard to homeschool in)
As soon as I saw her question I answered her. My answer didn't fit with her agenda, so she ignored it. Same as with science labs. I along with at least another poster answered it. Then she asked it again because I didn't include science labs in a post I made about resources.

 

[JennyMominRI]

That may be their experiences. I know many people who have found homeschooling too much hassle and sent their children back to school, or to an independent school

Homeschooling is very uncommon in the UK and often for a good reason. If the people you spoke to are lucky enough to have had positive experiences with their LEA, well done to them. That is certainly not the experience of the people I've known in 2 LEAs who have been hassled endlessly (and all but one have given up on it before the child reached secondary school age).

Further, non-National Curriculum qualifications are not recognized by employers and the majority of higher education providers (and those who do often require applicants to sit equivalenced tests), so your children essentially have to learn the National Curriculum and take the exams for those subjects anyway - one of many reasons why homeschooling rarely continues beyond age 11.

There are around 50,000 homeschoolers in the UK..Not a ton but enough.
A lot of people there deal with what people here deal with.. Schools are not friendly to homeschoolers and have little understanding of the laws... They overstep legal boundaries and often Homeschoolers don't know there right..
When I pulled my kids out of school, I was told I had to register with the school board, be monitored etc.. The California department of Education sent me letters saying that homeschooling was illegal.. I knew my rights and eventually people got sick of having threats made and their right being misrepresented.. This led to the CDE being ordered to cease and desist.
It's probably No different in the UK, however, it does not change what the actual laws say



It is not necessary to obtain the permission of the local LEA before home schooling and the LEA does not have any responsibility to monitor the education of home schooled children regularly. However, sections 437 to 443 of the Education Act 1996 place a duty upon local education authorities to take certain actions if it appears that a child is not being properly educated, and they will serve a notice in writing on the parent requiring him to satisfy them within a given period that the child is receiving such education (s. 437(1)). Phillips v Brown, Divisional Court [20 June 1980, unreported] established that an LEA may make informal enquiries of parents who are educating their children at home to establish that a suitable education is being provided. In their leaflet, "Educating Children at Home, England and Wales" (June 1998), the DfEE states: LEAs, however, have no automatic right of access to the parent's home. Parents may refuse a meeting in the home, if they can offer an alternative way of demonstrating that they are providing a suitable education, for example, through showing examples of work and agreeing to a meeting at another venue.





De-registration


If the child has never attended school, no formal steps need to be taken prior to home schooling. In other cases, the Education (Pupil Registration) Regulation 9, 1995 sets out the conditions under which a pupil's name must be removed from the admission register of a school. Under Regulation 9(1)(c), the name of a school-age pupil is to be deleted from the admission register if:

He has ceased to attend the school and the proprietor has received written notification from the parent that the pupil is receiving education otherwise than at school.

The parent needs to notify the governing body of the school, usually through the head teacher, of the intention to home-educate, but is under no obligation to inform the LEA of their intention. Under Regulation 13(3), the proprietor of the school must report the deletion of the pupil's name from the admission register to the LEA within ten school days.


According to the law a parent does not have to notify the LEA.
In addition, some LEA's have been in similar troubles to the CDE

 

[JennyMominRI]

Thank you for looking through the post. I was planning on doing that as soon as I could get back to the computer.

Mary2e kept asking until she got the answer she wanted which was Jenny's answer of "nothing"... which BTW I disagree with considering the information I found about NY (which BTW was the only state I looked at. I just picked 1 state that was rated as hard to homeschool in)
.

I was answering the question about monitoring in the states with little regulation

As I said, I'm in RI which is considered a stricter state.
Here is the law
Rhode Island Legal Home Schooling Options: 1


Option: 1

Legal Option:
Operate a home school as approved by the local school board

Attendance:
"Substantially equal" to that of the public schools

Subjects:
Reading, writing, English, geography, arithmetic, U.S. History, Rhode Island history (in fourth grade), Rhode Island government (fourth grade and high school), Rhode Island constitution (high school), U.S. government and constitution (high school), health and physical education (grades one through 12, to average 20 minutes per school day)

Qualifications:
None

Notice:
A de facto part of the approval process

Recordkeeping:
Keep attendance record and submit to school committee if requested

Testing:
Annual assessment may be required. Preference of parent as to type of assessment must be honored



As I said the Warwick school board did not require tests or portfolios, just a report card made by me and a list of classes... I sent in one notice every summer, and 2 sets of grades..That was it..I could have given them any grades I wanted, however, I was honest
I belie NY and PA are among the strictest states

 

[Kath2003]

There are around 50,000 homeschoolers in the UK..Not a ton but enough.

Out of 7,400,000...0.7% isn't really a significant figure.

A lot of people there deal with what people here deal with.. Schools are not friendly to homeschoolers and have little understanding of the laws... They overstep legal boundaries and often Homeschoolers don't know there right..

True, and that is a flaw in the system. I am not anti-homeschooling but is is not true to say that they are unmonitored. Homeschooling parents, as I've explained, can be monitored quite intensely if they are in an LEA which "cares" a great deal about standards being met.

I understand what you're saying but you have to realise that in practise, LEAs can make it VERY difficult for parents who wish to homeschool their children. Remember: not providing your children with an education is illegal in the UK, and if the LEA believe you are not providing them with one, they will raise hell to cover their own backs. I'm sure people have had more positive experiences but the only people I have heard about have had on the whole extremely negative experiences - so much so that only one of them still homeschools her child (and this is partly because the child is not expected to gain any academic qualifications anyway).

 

[sha_lyn]

I find the discussion on UK law very interesting. It's been 3-4 yrs since a friend was looking into the laws. At the time she was back in the states to settle things here before settling near London. Her then 13 yr son could not get into a good school in the area they were moving to (from what I remember she said they were 1 block away from the last train station on the south line that is a part of the London mass transit line, or something along that line). Their plan was to permanently live in the London area Her then fiancée, now husband worked in London and is a UK(Irish?) citizen. However not long after they bought their place in/near London he was transferred to Singapore.

I know at the time she was planning on teaching in-line with England's standards so that he would be on track if/when he could get into a school.
She had several books she purchased while there that were to be a part of their curriculum. I know what little I read of the books was very interesting.

Unfortunately I've lost touch with her. I don't know when they ended up other than they did get back in London to get married. I believe his work might require that he travel between England and Singapore. I did look up her performance schedule last yr (she is a singer and musician) and she was performing in the London area last summer I believe.

 

[sha_lyn]

I was answering the question about monitoring in the states with little regulation

She's asked the question in several various forms I believe

 

[JennyMominRI]

True, and that is a flaw in the system. I am not anti-homeschooling but is is not true to say that they are unmonitored. Homeschooling parents, as I've explained, can be monitored quite intensely if they are in an LEA which "cares" a great deal about standards being met.

I understand what you're saying but you have to realise that in practise, LEAs can make it VERY difficult for parents who wish to homeschool their children. Remember: not providing your children with an education is illegal in the UK, and if the LEA believe you are not providing them with one, they will raise hell to cover their own backs. I'm sure people have had more positive experiences but the only people I have heard about have had on the whole extremely negative experiences - so much so that only one of them still homeschools her child (and this is partly because the child is not expected to gain any academic qualifications anyway).

It's also illegal not to provide your child with an education in the US
I don't doubt that..Like I said, it's very similar to what the CDE tries to do in California periodically..They have even gone so far as to involve CPS..It does scare a lot of people right back into school..But the CDA is working outside of their legal boundaries and people are just unaware

This is the basics of what was going on in Ca... In 2003 the CDE ceased their homeschool related activity

http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/090802.htm

 

[sha_lyn]

here is the quote

So, my question is and always was... what is being done about those children in states without testing who are not getting an appropriate education?

Which as I've said before it varies. IMHO states without testing is not the same as states with few regulations. There are states that do not require testing but do require reporting of some fashion, including portfolios, periodic reports, aproval of curriculum etc..

 

[JennyMominRI]

here is the quote


Which as I've said before it varies. IMHO states without testing is not the same as states with few regulations. There are states that do not require testing but do require reporting of some fashion, including portfolios, periodic reports, aproval of curriculum etc..

And that was my mistake, to automatically make no testing = low regulation

 

[sha_lyn]

Out of curiosity I started looking at more state laws.
I find Pennsylvania's law reiterates what I have been saying about the religious private school "loophole"
http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=PA
If you register with the state as a home schooler and do not use a religious school as an umbrella school, you must test or hire a certified teacher. However if using a private religious school, no testing at all is required.

 

[JennyMominRI]

There is another alternative which has not been mentioned yet, Charter Schools.
My soon to be 9th grader may be joining this one

http://www.connectionsacademy.com/

 

[sha_lyn]

LOL Jenny.... cyber charters schools have just been approved in GA.
There is a lot of talk in the HS community on whether or not it is homeschooling. From a legal standpoint it is not (at least in GA) but as many of us have assured those planning on using the cyber school, they are still welcomed to participate in HS organized activities.
Connections tried to get in on a county by county basis and was denied in each county that they applied in (10-12 GA counties I believe). However a brick and mortar charter school that uses the K12 program did get state wide approval. The enrollment process has started and everyone that is using it should have their material by sept 1.

As for connections, I do hope they get approved in GA. If I do ever decide to go the cyber-charter route, connections would be my choice (as to the information I have read so far about varies cyber charters).

My 1 and only concern is that lawmakers could decide that homeschooling in its present form should be done away or made harder because of the option of cyber charter schools.

 

[JennyMominRI]

LOL Jenny.... cyber charters schools have just been approved in GA.
There is a lot of talk in the HS community on whether or not it is homeschooling. From a legal standpoint it is not (at least in GA) but as many of us have assured those planning on using the cyber school, they are still welcomed to participate in HS organized activities.
Connections tried to get in on a county by county basis and was denied in each county that they applied in (10-12 GA counties I believe). However a brick and mortar charter school that uses the K12 program did get state wide approval. The enrollment process has started and everyone that is using it should have their material by sept 1.

As for connections, I do hope they get approved in GA. If I do ever decide to go the cyber-charter route, connections would be my choice (as to the information I have read so far about varies cyber charters).
My 1 and only concern is that lawmakers could decide that homeschooling in its present form should be done away or made harder because of the option of cyber charter schools.

I know that Connections is considered a Public School and DS would have a teacher following everything he does. It also has a lot of out of the home activities and options

 

[sha_lyn]

On the yahoo group for the K-12 charter there is a mindset of "division" already starting. While I understand the need for comunity, I see several long time HS'ers now saying they are leaving their old HS groups and are starting groups for those using the charter.
As my good friend said... and let the division begin... as a sarcastic response to the questions of acceptance and the plans for starting their own groups.
Another friend actually asked if her children would still be accepted in our homeschool girlscout troop (of which she is one of the co-leaders and will be a floater this yr to fill in as needed since our various age levels each have only 1 leader).

 

[Mary2e]

here is the quote

Which as I've said before it varies. IMHO states without testing is not the same as states with few regulations. There are states that do not require testing but do require reporting of some fashion, including portfolios, periodic reports, aproval of curriculum etc..

And this is NOT the same as testing. All those can be faked. A child taking a test cannot. You said it yourself that HSer group together to form a school, yet this school is now private, and from what I can tell, isn't subject to any standards at all.

I get it now. I got it earlier. You folks will fight to the death if someone dare ask a question to try to better understand.

IMHO, you have blown this all way out of proportion. If you chose to HS, great. I believe your children are doing well and will continue to do well.

My question was about those children who fall thru the cracks. Your answer was "they have portfolios and monitors for curriculum." I don't accept that as an answer, which is where we disagree. You quote pro HS statistics, which are quantifiable. Portfolios and curriculums are not quantifiable. Why the different standard?

I'd like to know what the big deal is to test your child. You've all claimed they are all above their grade level. They should ace those tests and be models of HS children - and proof that it works (not that it's needed). I would think you'd want that to eliminate the types of questions I ask.

You also keep referring to my agenda, and even said I had another id. That's quite insulting. I meant no harm nor insult to anyone, yet after saying it several times, continued to insist that I have a agenda.

Why do you folks get so worked up over something like this? Did I accidentally stumble upon a really sensitive issue? If so, why is it so sensitive? Seriously.

 

[sha_lyn]

My question was about those children who fall thru the cracks. Your answer was "they have portfolios and monitors for curriculum." I don't accept that as an answer, which is where we disagree. You quote pro HS statistics, which are quantifiable. Portfolios and curriculums are not quantifiable. Why the different standard?

That is the problem. It is the answer, but because you don't like it you refuse to accept it. However it is the answer.
Why the different standard? Because the laws are different in different states. Why do you fail to understand the concept of laws?

I know I have already addressed my objections to standardized testing, and I believe others have also. I even gave an example of how if we were in the state of NY, our home school could have been put on probation the end of our first yr because of how the state determines what grade a student would be in.

You also keep referring to my agenda, and even said I had another id. That's quite insulting. I meant no harm nor insult to anyone, yet after saying it several times, continued to insist that I have a agenda.

Since you quoted me, I will assume you were addressing me.
You are seriously confused or mentally ill if you believe I have ever said that you have another ID. There is no point even discussing HS'ing with you any more. You refuse or ignore answers that you don't like and make wild unfounded accusations.

 

[Karel]

.
IMHO, you have blown this all way out of proportion. If you chose to HS, great. I believe your children are doing well and will continue to do well.
My question was about those children who fall thru the cracks. Your answer was "they have portfolios and monitors for curriculum." I don't accept that as an answer, which is where we disagree. You quote pro HS statistics, which are quantifiable. Portfolios and curriculums are not quantifiable. Why the different standard?I'd like to know what the big deal is to test your child. You've all claimed they are all above their grade level. They should ace those tests and be models of HS children - and proof that it works (not that it's needed). I would think you'd want that to eliminate the types of questions I ask.Why do you folks get so worked up over something like this? Did I accidentally stumble upon a really sensitive issue? If so, why is it so sensitive? Seriously.

I don't see anyone getting worked up but you and your ability to blow it out of proportion. What are you digging for?

I'm not thrilled with standardized testing. I have two kids with learning disabilities. Testing for them is a nightmare. If you saw my daughter's scores, you'd think she was as dumb as a skunk.

You sound like testing is some sort of holy shrine. There are several different tests out there; many states do different ones at different times. How can you compare apples to oranges?

These people are not in charge of homeschooling the nation. A lot of people leave public school because of testing; because the class spend four weeks going over picture prompt essays and nothing else. If you ask the same question over and over again, the answer is not going to change. They don't set the rules up.