homeschool ? Please help.

[JennyMominRI]

In my town students are required to pass standardized tests in order to advance to the next grade.

Schools require exams in classes in order for the student to pass or fail for the year.. Those are not *standardized test* however. Those are individual tests for particular classes.

Here is a list fo standardized tests required in NJ

NJASK or the New Jersey Assessment of Skills and Knowledge is a standardized test given to all New Jersey public-schooled students in grades 3-7 during the month of March, and is administered by the New Jersey Department of Education.

Together with the Grade Eight Proficiency Assessment (GEPA) administered in eighth grade and the High School Proficiency Assessment (HSPA) given to students in eleventh grade, the NJASK is part of a battery of tests used to assess student performance in New Jersey's public schools.

The test was originally called the Elementary School Proficiency Assessment (ESPA), which was administered at grade 4 from 1997 through 2002 to provide an early indication of student progress toward achieving the knowledge and skills identified in the state's Core Curriculum Content Standards (CCCS).

In spring 2003, the state education department replaced the ESPA with the NJASK, which is a comprehensive, multi-grade assessment program. It assesses student achievement in language arts, math, and science. Along with other indicators of student progress, the results of the elementary-level assessments are intended to be used to identify students who need additional instructional support in order to reach the CCCS.

Alternate Proficiency Assessment (APA) is a portfolio-based assessment method used to measure academic progress for students with severe disabilities who are unable to participate in the standardized assessment tests. The APA is given to a student in each content area where the student's disability is so severe that the student is not receiving instruction in the skill being measured and the student cannot complete any of the types of questions on the assessment in a content area even with appropriate changes and accommodations.


Here is the test that is requred for graduation

The High School Proficiency Assessment (abbreviated HSPA and pronounced "hes-pah" or sometimes just "H-S-P-A") is a standardized test administered by the New Jersey Department of Education to all New Jersey high school students in March of their junior year. Together with the New Jersey Assessment of Skills and Knowledge (NJ ASK) administered in grades 3-7 and the Grade Eight Proficiency Assessment (GEPA) given to students in eighth grade, the HSPA is part of a battery of tests used to assess student performance in New Jersey's public schools.

The HSPA is administered over a course of four days simultaneously in all high schools throughout the state of New Jersey. The exam tests students' proficiency in a variety of academic subjects including mathematics and language arts literacy. State law in New Jersey requires that all students pass the HSPA for high school graduation.

Students who do not pass the exam on their first try have two opportunities to retake it during their senior (and final) year. Additionally, for those who are still unable to pass the exam or feel that they are "not good test-takers," the state department of education gives students the option of participating in a "Special Review Assessment process" (SRA) to demonstrate their academic abilities.

Before the test, chief school administrators, principals, and guidance counselors stress the importance of the test and make it clear that students should pass the exam on the first try. By doing so, they could focus on the future. Without any need for remedial classes, they have more opportunities for electives.

The exam, first administered in 1993, was originally called the High School Proficiency Test (abbreviated as HSPT or HSPT11) until its name was changed in 2001.


As i've stated, since kids are not required to graduate from school in ANY state, these tests are still not required to be taken by every child in a state

You may want to look at your school districts requirements for promotion to the next grade..
You would probably be shocked at what kids have to do in order to be held back in school

 

[Mary2e]

I consider the tests you mention standard tests, and yes, eventually they must pass them to advance/graduate. They are not given at the class level but at the grade level. I wasn't discussing high school at all.

I don't question that education is not required by any district and was surprised it was not. That's one of my issues.

I will, however, look into it further to see if it's as easy to get promoted as you say.

 

[Mary2e]

I don't think they can do that legally. What do you do with kids who fail every year? And what is fail? Partially proficient? What tests do they give? School districts can pick and choose what tests and when.

Standarized testing is not there to penalize students. It's to let the schools know how they are doing and will occasionally be used to red flag some students who may need extra attention.

To require a student to pass to advance is cruel.

I will look into it.

However, to pass students without basic proficiencies is even more cruel than having them pass a test to advance.

After all, they have to pass all sorts of tests to advance in the real world (at work). Isn't it a good idea to let them know that it won't always be easy to get ahead?

 

[JennyMominRI]

I don't think they can do that legally. What do you do with kids who fail every year? And what is fail? Partially proficient? What tests do they give? School districts can pick and choose what tests and when.

Standarized testing is not there to penalize students. It's to let the schools know how they are doing and will occasionally be used to red flag some students who may need extra attention.

To require a student to pass to advance is cruel.

They don't... Students are promoted depending on their grades in their classes... Say your child takes the NECAP (New England) standardized test in English and is graded *not proficient*..This does not effest that childs English grade at all..The English grade is determined by the tests, homework, reports the teacher decides to assign.
Now your kids midterms and finals in their classes do effect their grades and ability to be promoted, but those are NOT standardized tests
NECAPs simply show the state how the school is performing... If the school is performing poorly, it can be penalized as can ,in some cases the teacher.


Here is an example from a *good* school district in Warwick RI
Aldrich Jr High
Percentage of kids proficient in
Math 50%
Writing 53%
English 66%


http://www.ride.ri.gov/assessment/DOCS/Accountability/IndexScoresandPercentProf_updated.pdf

Some of these schools show on 30% proficiancy in some areas.
Do you really believe that 70% of the kids who test *not proficient* are held back?


Now, would you like to give the NECAP to all homeschooled kids in RI?
What would you do with the ones who are *not proficient*?

 

[JennyMominRI]

Some info on NJ standard via NCLB

In order for a school to be considered making adequate progress, this is the percentage of students required to be proficient

http://education.state.nj.us/rc/nclb06/reports/29/2350/29-2350-050.html

Elementary
The state standard for Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) for language arts literacy is 75% proficient for the school and each subgroup.

The state standard for Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) for mathematics is 62% proficient for the school and each subgroup.



Middle schools

The state standard for Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) for language arts literacy is 66% proficient for the school and each subgroup

The state standard for Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) for mathematics is 49% proficient for the school and each subgroup

 

[JennyMominRI]

Here are some shocking numbers
1/3 of American children do NOT graduate from school

http://www.all4ed.org/publications/wcwc/NewJersey_wc.pdf

More than 20% of kids in NJ do not graduate from school

 

[monsterkitty]

When looking at graduation rates, one must look at how that number was reached.

A student must graduate within the four years in order to not be counted as a dropout. If a high school student for some reason does not complete high school in the four years, but takes four and a half or five, the student is considered a drop out.

Two of my former students were in a horrible car crash last summer. It was between their freshman and sophomore years. One student was killed and one was sustained injuries that prevented her from going to school last year. Both will be considered dropouts, even though one is dead and one will finish high school, just a year late.

To go further, like many districts in the country, we have migrant students who move in and out of the country. If a student starts his or her freshman year and then moves back to Mexico before he or she graduates from high school here in the US, the student is considered a dropout even if schooling is continued in Mexico.

Drop out rates are determined differently in every state and my examples may not be true in your state.

When looking at standardized tests, one must also see how the test is written and graded. Here a student who is partially proficient is at grade level, but the score is considered a failing score. Standardized tests are great indicators on how well a school teaches to the test. The tests don't really measure critcial thinking, which I'm sure most of us agree is a very imporant skill to ahve.

Public school is not for everyone. Yes, this is coming from a public school teacher who is way liberal. Options, such as home schooling an private schooling are essential.

 

[JennyMominRI]

When looking at graduation rates, one must look at how that number was reached.

A student must graduate within the four years in order to not be counted as a dropout. If a high school student for some reason does not complete high school in the four years, but takes four and a half or five, the student is considered a drop out.

Two of my former students were in a horrible car crash last summer. It was between their freshman and sophomore years. One student was killed and one was sustained injuries that prevented her from going to school last year. Both will be considered dropouts, even though one is dead and one will finish high school, just a year late.

To go further, like many districts in the country, we have migrant students who move in and out of the country. If a student starts his or her freshman year and then moves back to Mexico before he or she graduates from high school here in the US, the student is considered a dropout even if schooling is continued in Mexico.

Drop out rates are determined differently in every state and my examples may not be true in your state.

When looking at standardized tests, one must also see how the test is written and graded. Here a student who is partially proficient is at grade level, but the score is considered a failing score. Standardized tests are great indicators on how well a school teaches to the test. The tests don't really measure critcial thinking, which I'm sure most of us agree is a very imporant skill to ahve.

Public school is not for everyone. Yes, this is coming from a public school teacher who is way liberal. Options, such as home schooling an private schooling are essential.

I hope I'm not coming of as a PS hater posting these links etc.. My kids are in PS..Obviously, there are problems in ALL school types..
As to the teaching to the test issue, That's one of the reasons I became a homeschooler while in San Diego. There were stories left and right about it in the newspaper and on TV.

My sons first grade teacher quit and went to a private school after 1 year of NCLB... She felt the majority of her time was spent preparing the students for the testing and assesments and very little time teaching..She was an awesome teacher

 

[monsterkitty]

I hope I'm not coming of as a PS hater posting these links etc.. My kids are in PS..Obviously, there are problems in ALL school types..
As to the teaching to the test issue, That's one of the reasons I became a homeschooler while in San Diego. There were stories left and right about it in the newspaper and on TV.

My sons first grade teacher quit and went to a private school after 1 year of NCLB... She felt the majority of her time was spent preparing the students for the testing and assesments and very little time teaching..She was an awesome teacher

I did not see you as a PS hater in the post; in fact, I see you as not only a proponent of PS, but also a person who understands that each student has different needs and you are going to make damned sure your kids get the best education they can, regardless of the setting. I would love to clone you so that all parents think this way. I just wanted posters who read the link understood how dropout rates are determined.

More and more great teachers are leaving the field because of NCLB. We have decided as a staff to not teach to our state test regardless of the outcome. Yes, students do need to know the content on the test, but they also need music, art, pe, etc. We have decided we will focus on the well-rounded child, not the child who is only learning material for a test. Our scores have actually increased since we over-threw our last principal, who made us teach to a test.

 

[castleview]

When looking at graduation rates, one must look at how that number was reached.

Standardized tests are great indicators on how well a school teaches to the test. The tests don't really measure critcial thinking, which I'm sure most of us agree is a very imporant skill to ahve.

Totally agree! Plus an entire class of above average children can be dragged down by one or two poorly performing students. I went to a public high school where the overall scores were ridiculously low. I was far from the top in my class yet still got into a great university.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I did not see you as a PS hater in the post; in fact, I see you as not only a proponent of PS, but also a person who understands that each student has different needs and you are going to make damned sure your kids get the best education they can, regardless of the setting. I would love to clone you so that all parents think this way. I just wanted posters who read the link understood how dropout rates are determined.

Good.. I think part of the problem on this thread is that we are all sensitive about the way we raise our kids.. Mary2E is percieved as being Anti homeschooling ,when what she is, is critical of some aspects of it. I don't want to be percieved as anti-PS because I am critical of some aspects of PS.
I don't think testing is THE answer to anything..I think it can be AN answer in terms of evaluating kids for success in college via ACT's and SAT's.
I just don't see it as an accurate projection of what kids learn.
I also think it's shameful to penalize schools and teachers that don't meet NCLB standards ..We should be jumping through hoops to help those teachers and schools.
I also see some evidence that some schools are actually pushing kids out, who score low on standardized tests in order to bring up the scores... Can you blame them when they are penalized for low scores.. Teachers and Schools are put in unwinable positions and the very kids NCLB claims to help get hurt

 

[castleview]

Monster Kitty - I love the idea of overthrowing the principal. A friend of mine crossed to the dark side and is now an assistant principal. She was saying how the CMTs (CT's test) benefit the curriculum. We just rolled our eyes and said "You are such an administrator."

BTW, I think Jenny should be cloned too!

 

[Karel]

I will look into it.However, to pass students without basic proficiencies is even more cruel than having them pass a test to advance.After all, they have to pass all sorts of tests to advance in the real world (at work). Isn't it a good idea to let them know that it won't always be easy to get ahead?

There are other ways to test knowledge than sitting for a multiple choice test or an essay test. As I said before, my daughter would be far behind if that is all they consider.

And I can't remember the last time I was sat down and asked to take a multiple choice test to advance in the real world. Do you take them often?

 

[sha_lyn]

I would love to know how Mary2e believes testing can't be faked, but portfolios and evaluations can. Hell a test would be easier and take less effort to fake than a portfolio or independent evaluation.
The 2 different testing services we've used over the years
have no knowledge other than my signature that my children took the test on their own without help.

I would also like to know what questions of hers I have not answered, since according to her I have not answered most of them. I do believe I have answered each and every one. some of them multiple times.

 

[Mary2e]

Good.. I think part of the problem on this thread is that we are all sensitive about the way we raise our kids.. Mary2E is percieved as being Anti homeschooling ,when what she is, is critical of some aspects of it. I don't want to be percieved as anti-PS because I am critical of some aspects of PS.
I don't think testing is THE answer to anything..I think it can be AN answer in terms of evaluating kids for success in college via ACT's and SAT's.

Thank you very much. I sincerely appreciate your understanding of how I feel. I also agree with you.

There's obviously a real problem with education in this country. Many of you have found a solution that works for you which is home schooling and/or private schools. I applaud you for caring so much about your children's education to take matters into your own hands. All children, no matter what school they attend, with parents who care about education suceed, even in the poorest performing districts of public school.

But that's not what made me curious. You've all educated me, and again, I thank those of you who took the time to research, posted links for me, and really understood what I was trying to get at.

For those who thought I was trolling, well, that's your problem and more of a reflection on you than on me. Not everyone has a hidden agenda, though on the internet, you can never tell.

Again, I thank each and everyone of you that tried to make me see your points. I did. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, and still think the nation's education system needs massive overhaul, I still can see your points and hope you can see mine. I started this because I asked who was overseeing to make sure children were being properly educated at home, and I still have the question - because too many states simply have lax rules. Oh, rules exist, but they could be tighter.

After all, if our children are well educated, we all win in the end, and that should be everyone's goal.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No, I don't want a specific answer. I'm sorry if I came off that way. I disagree with the info. I don't want you or anyone else to give me the answer I want to hear.

What I want, after 4 days of further investigation, is for this country to require an education for all students, not just attendance. I want all of them to be tested, public school, private school and home school. I don't want to see any child not given a fair shake in this life.

Let's think about this logically though......

when "attending" school...most teachers are not twiddling their thumbs. SOME teaching is taking place.

Look at graduation requirements and college admission....there are natural consequences for states not to do something above and beyond making sure a child attends school or is educated in some way.

"Standardized Testing" is not the magical solution to prove that a person has been educated.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Probably nothing in some districts, remediation and retesting in others, and being left behind in some.

What happens to those in private school or home schools?

Failure to meet state requirements means the state can step in and take action.

 

[castleview]

I would love to know how Mary2e believes testing can't be faked, but portfolios and evaluations can. Hell a test would be easier and take less effort to fake than a portfolio or independent evaluation.
The 2 different testing services we've used over the years
have no knowledge other than my signature that my children took the test on their own without help.

I would also like to know what questions of hers I have not answered, since according to her I have not answered most of them. I do believe I have answered each and every one. some of them multiple times.

I think Mary meant that the tests would be proctored by someone independent.

 

[Mary2e]

Exactly.

 

[sha_lyn]

I think Mary meant that the tests would be proctored by someone independent.

That might be her opinion, but that is not the facts in the situation.