HOLY COW..."Kramer" goes nuts!

[blondeheroine]

On the video I saw Kramer went off first, then the word "cracker" was used. (Maybe there's another video out there that starts earlier that you saw?) Anyway, I don't condone the use of the word "Cracker", but even if it were said first it would not justify what he said. I don't see how anyone can compare the word cracker to the N word given the history of white racism against blacks in this country.

I don't think anyone is trying to justify it. I think what I'm saying, at least I can't speak for anyone else, is that the heckler is an a**hole as well. I DO hate the word cracker, have been referred to as one and I don't appreciate it. Just because I'm white doesn't mean that I don't get my feelings hurt. No one is trying to compare inequalities - I'm simply saying that NEITHER is right or just and they should both just simply not be used as derogatory terms.

The bottom line is this: treat people as individuals and not as what their skin color is. Say - You're you and I'm me. Stop looking at racial backgrounds, history and stereotypes when you look at a person and look at them as *insert their name here*. Wanna insult someone cuz you're mad? Then don't lump them in a category. Insult THEM. Not ten million other people at the same time.

Racism isn't right in any way shape or form. Neither is sexism or agism. Just stop stop stop. I know it's a pipe dream, but stamp it all out. Accept differences, deal with prejudices, but end this stupid hatred. Completely. Arguing about it only deepens the gap. We're human. We're people. We're made of flesh and bone and that's the end of the story. I don't understand why we're arguing this point.

 

[blondeheroine]

is there a "word" for people who .........just don't like people....in general?? because i know that lately, i've been liking animals a whole lot more than people.

Humanist?? would that make sense?

I will say that I am more and more upset with each passing day by the disrespectful ways people treat each other based on complete nothingness. It's bugged me to death lately.

People would rather run someone over on the interstate than dare to let them have the right of way. People would shove another person out of the way in a crowded mall or theme park in order to get where they're going first. Etc, etc, etc.

We're all guilty of being a**holes at some point or another, but each passing day I go out and see so much more meanness than kindness and it's bugging the crap out of me.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

I will say that I am more and more upset with each passing day by the disrespectful ways people treat each other based on complete nothingness. It's bugged me to death lately.

People would rather run someone over on the interstate than dare to let them have the right of way. People would shove another person out of the way in a crowded mall or theme park in order to get where they're going first. Etc, etc, etc.

We're all guilty of being a**holes at some point or another, but each passing day I go out and see so much more meanness than kindness and it's bugging the crap out of me.

i work with the public, i see it everyday. someone has a bad day, they take it out on me. and then in turn it makes ME have a bad day, i take it out on someone else, etc. and it goes on and on.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

I don't think anyone is trying to justify it. I think what I'm saying, at least I can't speak for anyone else, is that the heckler is an a**hole as well. I DO hate the word cracker, have been referred to as one and I don't appreciate it. Just because I'm white doesn't mean that I don't get my feelings hurt. No one is trying to compare inequalities - I'm simply saying that NEITHER is right or just and they should both just simply not be used as derogatory terms.

The bottom line is this: treat people as individuals and not as what their skin color is. Say - You're you and I'm me. Stop looking at racial backgrounds, history and stereotypes when you look at a person and look at them as *insert their name here*. Wanna insult someone cuz you're mad? Then don't lump them in a category. Insult THEM. Not ten million other people at the same time.

Racism isn't right in any way shape or form. Neither is sexism or agism. Just stop stop stop. I know it's a pipe dream, but stamp it all out. Accept differences, deal with prejudices, but end this stupid hatred. Completely. Arguing about it only deepens the gap. We're human. We're people. We're made of flesh and bone and that's the end of the story. I don't understand why we're arguing this point.

i agree with everything you said.

 

[Anewman]

...what I'm saying, at least I can't speak for anyone else, is that the heckler is an a**hole as well. I DO hate the word cracker, have been referred to as one and I don't appreciate it. ...

Not defending the heckler, but from what I can tell they were heckling him about his talent(or lack of) and did not call him a cracker untill after he turned it to race. And on most of the clips that are floating around, once he goes into a tirade you dont really hear the hecklers anymore. Once he turned it racial, others from the race he was insulting started yelling at him(kramer).

 

[blondeheroine]

Not defending the heckler, but from what I can tell they were heckling him about his talent(or lack of) and did not call him a cracker untill after he turned it to race. And on most of the clips that are floating around, once he goes into a tirade you dont really hear the hecklers anymore. Once he turned it racial, others from the race he was insulting started yelling at him(kramer).

I haven't seen the entire tape. Only what has been on CNN. I refuse to put it on my YouTube "viewed" list. Someone here said that the heckler started yelling out racial epithets first. I couldn't understand why the heckler started yelling that out at first.

I'm not a big Seinfeld fan, but I can't imagine watching an episode and not having this constantly running through my mind. I would find it impossible to laugh at him being "cute" knowing what a **** he is.

And I don't find his apology genuine. Maybe I'm wrong, but if it was so genuine, why did he only do it when forced by Seinfeld? Why not do it at the comedy club when he promised he would? Did he think they would forget? That's what bugs me.

 

[eclectics]

Well, it seems money has reared it's ugly head now. The two men in the audience haved retained counsel and now want monetary compensation. Sorry, and I was very vocal in my shock at what happened and in calling Richards a jerk, but I don't believe this calls for a cash award. Anybody feel that these two men deserve to recieve money over this incident?

 

[goofygirl]

oK, I could not resist. Tshirt Hell.com has a new "Kramer" shirt. (Warning- the site has some offensive language/subject matter)

 

[Sandy22]

and apparently calling someone Cracker is ok, but "N" is ......in Kelly Rippa's words......"oh that's a BIG no-no!" which....i really don't agree with. i think both terms are offensive the same.

I completely disagree that both terms are equally offensive given the history behind the terms. There's just no comparison and to even make that suggestion seems absurd.

 

[blondeheroine]

Well, it seems money has reared it's ugly head now. The two men in the audience haved retained counsel and now want monetary compensation. Sorry, and I was very vocal in my shock at what happened and in calling Richards a jerk, but I don't believe this calls for a cash award. Anybody feel that these two men deserve to recieve money over this incident?

Well, if they're suing Richards - they might be S.O.L. I doubt he's going to have a steady job anytime soon. Maybe he can get work as a telemarker. He might not have to come in for an interview, at least.

 

[KikiFan]

I completely disagree that both terms are equally offensive given the history behind the terms. There's just no comparison and to even make that suggestion seems absurd.

I completely agree. Those two words carry completely different weight and baggage. And the thing that bothers me, is that the "N" word wasn't even the worst thing he said. His lynching comment was imo far worse.

According to Wikipedia which has a complete transcript, the cracker comment came only after lynching comment and after Richards had thrown the "N" word out there three times. After being verbally assaulted in that way, I'm not gonna hold it against someone for using a racist term against Richards. You act like a racist you'll get called a racist term.

And I'm glad those people are suing him. I hope every single person in that audience sues him. It's the only way these people will learn. We might not be able to change their mind but we can make the ****.

ETA: He might not be making much money now, but I'm betting he's got some banked from his Seinfeld days.

 

[blondeheroine]

I completely agree. Those two words carry completely different weight and baggage. And the thing that bothers me, is that the "N" word wasn't even the worst thing he said. His lynching comment was imo far worse.

According to Wikipedia which has a complete transcript, the cracker comment came only after lynching comment and after Richards had thrown the "N" word out there three times. After being verbally assaulted in that way, I'm not gonna hold it against someone for using a racist term against Richards. You act like a racist you'll get called a racist term.

And I'm glad those people are suing him. I hope every single person in that audience sues him. It's the only way these people will learn. We might not be able to change their mind but we can make the ****.

ETA: He might not be making much money now, but I'm betting he's got some banked from his Seinfeld days.

I wouldn't doubt but what a white supremicist (I can't friggin spell it - I tried, I really did) will donate to him. I'm sure it will be undercover and we'll never know about it unless someone investigates it, but I don't doubt it. Especially if that blind item that someone posted earlier is true.

 

[Anewman]

ETA: He might not be making much money now, but I'm betting he's got some banked from his Seinfeld days.

Well, there is a reason Seinfeld gave up some of his Lettermen airtime to allow Richards to apologize. Jerry was there promoting the DVD sets from the show which is very very lucrative for all parties involved. I am sure the RACIST tag cast on Kramer will affect sales of the box sets and both Jerry and Richards know this.

Did anybody really think Jerry would want to publicly associate himself with Richards after that tirade for anyother reason???

 

[Poohbear123]

Well, it seems money has reared it's ugly head now. The two men in the audience haved retained counsel and now want monetary compensation. Sorry, and I was very vocal in my shock at what happened and in calling Richards a jerk, but I don't believe this calls for a cash award. Anybody feel that these two men deserve to recieve money over this incident?

I don't.

 

[blondeheroine]

Well, there is a reason Seinfeld gave up some of his Lettermen airtime to allow Richards to apologize. Jerry was there promoting the DVD sets from the show which is very very lucrative for all parties involved. I am sure the RACIST tag cast on Kramer will affect sales of the box sets and both Jerry and Richards know this.

Did anybody really think Jerry would want to publicly associate himself with Richards after that tirade for anyother reason???

I assumed that was Jerry's reasoning behind the Letterman thing. If I were Jerry, I would do physical damage to MR. He has hurt SO many people by this crap. He's obviously hurt those in the audience that left the show and people across the nation, but also the fans of the series who will never be able to enjoy the show as much.

I watch Everybody Loves Raymond reruns when I'm bored and there's nothing on and I'm working on the computer. I did that tonight and, usually, they play lots of Seinfeld promos. I didn't see one tonight. Anyone else who receives stipends from that series is going to be financially hurt.

 

[blondeheroine]

This was on the front page of IMDB:

Richards Apologizes to Civil Rights Leaders
Disgraced comedian Michael Richards is reaching out to America's civil rights leaders to help him move on from a racist rant scandal following a moment of madness in a Los Angeles club. The former Seinfeld star has hired top publicist Howard Rubinstein to help him approach cultural leaders and personally apologize for his angry remarks during an attack on two African-American hecklers at the Laugh Factory last week. Rubinstein, who was hired yesterday according to website Tmz.com, reveals his new client has already spoken to black leaders Rev. Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton in an effort to make amends for his scandalous remarks. Rubinstein says, "He's appalled at what he did and wants to start the healing process. Whether it be an attack on any racial group... he acknowledges it's horrible and wrong and he will never do that again." Rubinstein says the calls were received "positively" but Sharpton has already rebuked the comedian publicly, stating he could not accept Richards' apology on The Late Show With David Letterman.

There was also this report on LiveJournal's Oh No They Didn't community:

Did Michael Richards attack the Jews? Two Los Angeles residents have come forward and said that's exactly what happened last Spring at L.A. comedy club, The Improv.

Carol Oschin and J.P. Fillet say they were at The Improv on April 22 when Richards took the stage. They say that in the middle of Richards' skit, a man in the audience said something to the comedian, when Richards allegedly launched into an anti-Semitic rant. According to Oschin, Richards screamed at the audience member, "You f***ing Jew. You people are the cause of Jesus dying."

Oschin says the rant continued and Richards stormed off the stage. Oschin and Fillet say that, at first, they thought Richards' tirade was part of his act, but claim that it quickly became apparent it was not.

Richards publicist, Howard Rubenstein, confirmed to TMZ that Richards did make derogatory comments about Jews, but says it was part of his act. Rubenstein says Richards told him, "I'm not anti-Semitic. I was playing a role and poking fun at the rednecks."

http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=1&pmmsid=1775870

www.tmz.com

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

Well, it seems money has reared it's ugly head now. The two men in the audience haved retained counsel and now want monetary compensation. Sorry, and I was very vocal in my shock at what happened and in calling Richards a jerk, but I don't believe this calls for a cash award. Anybody feel that these two men deserve to recieve money over this incident?

no i don't think they deserve money. figures they would go and try and get "famous" for this. why would anyone want to put their names to what happened?? i wouldn't.

and besides.....the guy has no money ANYWAY! he was at a comedy club!! he isn't on tv anymore! how much money do they think they're going to get?

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

I assumed that was Jerry's reasoning behind the Letterman thing. If I were Jerry, I would do physical damage to MR. He has hurt SO many people by this crap. He's obviously hurt those in the audience that left the show and people across the nation, but also the fans of the series who will never be able to enjoy the show as much.

I watch Everybody Loves Raymond reruns when I'm bored and there's nothing on and I'm working on the computer. I did that tonight and, usually, they play lots of Seinfeld promos. I didn't see one tonight. Anyone else who receives stipends from that series is going to be financially hurt.

i feel bad for Jerry. the first thought that came to my mind was "what is Jerry thinking about this?" but i think he handled it very well. and i also felt bad that while Richards(wether anyone believes him or not) was trying to apologize, people were laughing, and Jerry had to tell them to be quiet.

how terrible to be caught in the middle of something that's not even your fault.

 

[disneyfan67]

And I'm glad those people are suing him. I hope every single person in that audience sues him. It's the only way these people will learn. We might not be able to change their mind but we can make the ****.

I would be very carefull of the slippery slope you're on. If you thought people were upset in this country over the Patriot act, just wait til what you propose, happens. I would rather hear someone like Richards spew his nonsense and be punished by losing work, fans, etc, instead of being sued. Once you start lawsuits over speech you find offensive, the next target may be you. Free speech should have it's limits within reason, but by implementing lawsuits you're basicly doing a moderen version of book burning and censorship. Once you start to change the way people speak by the threat of legal action, then we as a nation have truly lost our freedoms. Think about it.

 

[letterdavidman]

I'm a wuss. I'm afraid to watch the whole thing. I saw enough on CNN.

I just don't understand it. First Mel Gibson and now this guy.

Secondly, Sinbad was interviewed about this on CNN and he said that MR saying he isn't a racist is like someone shooting up a place and killing a bunch of people and then saying they aren't really a killer. It isn't in their nature. And I think that's a good comparison.

It really disappoints me when I see this type of thing. It just seems like everyone is "losing it." I see people out and about being so disrespectful to others lately and I don't understand why all the tempers and hateful feelings are escalating. Maybe I should, but I don't.

Okay, I couldn't help but see more of it - it's playing on CNN right now. I think people must have thought it was some weird skit or something for shock value until some woman goes, "Oh my gosh" when she realizes it's for real. That's when people start walking out.

I cannot IMAGINE being in that audience. What a freakin' moron.

As for hecklers, there's an audio of Dane Cook and he takes down this one guy so smooth. But the guy shuts up. I go with what someone said above - comedians who are stand-up comedians know how to handle this kind of thing.

Thought I would jump in.

First, is Michael Richards being a little (or a lot) disingenuous when he declares that, in light of the recent developments in his life, he in fact is still not a racist? Um, yes.

But this latest item (in conjunction with the earlier Mel Gibson incident) immediately calls to mind two things. 1) Years ago (about 1990, I believe), I was watching MTV news, and they were doing a piece on the latest N.W.A. album (their first album after Ice Cube left, titled "Efil4zaggin"). The interviewer asked Dr. Dre and Eazy E about their decision to title one of the album's tracks "Appetite For Destruction". Dre quickly answered that it's because they "loved Guns 'N' Roses". The interviewer then somewhat incredulously asked them how that could be possible, considering Axl Rose's recent pointed use of the "n" word on the song "One In A Million", from the EP "G'N'R Lies". And Dre and Eazy E responded with a shrug and the answer, "Everybody's got a little racist in 'em."

2) A couple months ago, regular "Grey's Anatomy" cast member (and African American) Isaiah Washington lashed out at fellow cast member Patrick Dempsey while on set, and called him a "f*****". This prompted another, supporting cast member to come out of the closet and declare publicly that he was gay. As of this time, Isaiah Washington is still employed as an actor on "Grey's Anatomy", and, in fact, producers have gone on record as stating that they have no intention of firing him. And this is, of course, without Mr. Washington feeling the need to offer up any sort of public mea culpa, or apology.

Opinions?