Hillary Supporters unite....no bashing please! only smiles

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flib·ber·ti·gib·bet noun
1. a chattering or flighty, light-headed person.
2. Archaic. a gossip.

Oh my gosh. I know lots of flibbertigibbets! I'll have to use that one.
 
I'm about to make another prediction. My other one was way off, but heck, it's at least 10 pages back so who can remember that far. The current RCP average in NC is 48.8 for Obama and 41.8 for Clinton. Seems to be 10% still undecided. Since the undecideds usually break for Hillary I predict that Obama will win NC by less than 3 percentage points. Using the same reasoning, Clinton will win Indiana by at least 10 points, possibly 12.

What do you guys think? Am I way off base here?

Sounds reasonable to me!:thumbsup2

OMG, Obama wins Guam by 7 votes.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/03/guam.contest/index.html

I think congratulations are in order for all Obama supporters. This is one big win. ;)

Every vote counts!!!!:lmao:

Did you know that Guam & Peutro Rico can vote in the Primaries, BUT NOT IN THE GE!!!

Who makes these rules up?...And who are the whackos who agree to them?:confused3
 
Sounds reasonable to me!:thumbsup2



Every vote counts!!!!:lmao:

Did you know that Guam & Peutro Rico can vote in the Primaries, BUT NOT IN THE GE!!!

Who makes these rules up?...And who are the whackos who agree to them?:confused3

Hi DISUNC, Just thought I'd add a little about Guam. Because it's a territory, the folks there can't vote in the general election. (They also don't pay federal income tax.)
The people there are great--it's a terrific place. They do have a non-voting representative to the House of Representatives. She's an amazing woman, Madeleine Bordallo. I met her a couple of time when she was the Lieutenant Governor of Guam.
Guam's status has it's good and bad points. Will be interesting to see if they, at some point again try for commonwealth status, or whether they decide to just stay a territory. (I don't really know what their chances would be for statehood, and also don't see a lot of interest...due to the federal income tax.)
 
I'm not so sure BO is going to win NC. This is the best reality show ever:yay:
 

I actually enjoyed reading about the election in Guam. It seems like lots of people (comparatively) came out and voted. It was kinda cute. I also think this is better than a reality show...so exiting.
 
Hi DISUNC, Just thought I'd add a little about Guam. Because it's a territory, the folks there can't vote in the general election. (They also don't pay federal income tax.)
The people there are great--it's a terrific place. They do have a non-voting representative to the House of Representatives. She's an amazing woman, Madeleine Bordallo. I met her a couple of time when she was the Lieutenant Governor of Guam.
Guam's status has it's good and bad points. Will be interesting to see if they, at some point again try for commonwealth status, or whether they decide to just stay a territory. (I don't really know what their chances would be for statehood, and also don't see a lot of interest...due to the federal income tax.)

Thanks for posting that lilyv I didn't know all of that. I didn't realize they had a representative.
 
I learned something that I did not know until last night.....did you know that Ares wife worked at the same Law Firm as Michelle Obama at the same time! Michelle worked there before her however.

They talked about it briefly last night. Wonder if they were friends:confused3 kinda strange and a coincidence that they worked at the same place don't ya think:rolleyes1

All I can say is it is a small world when it comes to Obama and some of his so called not friends.
 
Interesting article from Pajamas Media......

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/will-indiana-save-hillary/

Hillary Clinton has positioned herself as the more centrist Democrat in a Republican state — independents, conservatives and Republicans may very well cross lines in order to vote for her, as many did in Pennsylvania.

May 4, 2008 - by Ari Kaufman


The collegians and twenty-something volunteers who sit in Barack Obama’s downtown Indianapolis headquarters wear “We finally matter” t-shirts, noting that the “Obama Youth” will speak loudly in the Hoosier State on May 6. But all six million citizens of Indiana — at least Democrats — should lay claim to that slogan, since Indiana, often too late in the electoral season to affect the nomination, will matter.

Like the colors of the state’s largest university, Indiana is a Red State. Hoosiers have supported the Republican nominee for president ten consecutive times and in 16 of the past 17 General Elections going back to FDR’s re-election bid in 1936. And despite three congressional seats flipping to the Democrats in 2006, John McCain seems an agreeable enough candidate to avoid Indiana going blue this November.

Unlike its more left-leaning neighbors in the Upper Midwest, Indiana has fewer large cities, more patriotic farmers, perspicacious veterans, and America’s 15th most populous state actually has our fourth largest National Guard, which has been very active in the Global War on Terror. That considered, no more than 40% of Hoosiers are registered Democrats, so don’t expect any more than two million folks to turnout on May 6. However, Indiana’s Democrats are deeply divided based upon socio-economic level, age, race, priorities, and their locale in this culturally diverse state that borders Michigan on one end and Kentucky on the other. None other than the always truculent James Carville, architect of Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign and a Hillary backer, told Larry King last week that “Indiana is the tiebreaker.”

Thus, with indications that Obama will likely triumph that same day in North Carolina, will the Hoosier State indeed be “Clinton’s Last Stand,” as it essentially was for Tecumseh’s confederacy at the Battle of Tippecanoe nearly 200 years ago? Or will “The Comeback Kid” be able to push on and move south into winnable states like Kentucky and West Virginia in the coming weeks after another victory?

Let’s take a preview:

Where Hillary should do well: To the common observer, it has become evident that the former First Lady is winning here, as she has elsewhere, amongst the elderly, women, Catholics, Latinos, and especially the middle-class union households in Indiana’s northern industrial cities that Mr. Obama has found elusive recently. Trade and Labor Unions are powerful in Indiana, and have rallied around Hillary, essentially declaring her to be more genuine and less pedantic than Obama.

She has spoken to large audiences in those “bitter” blue-collar cities that have seen jobs disappear like Terre Haute, South Bend, Kokomo, Marion and Gary. Events in “forgotten towns” like Anderson, where historic factories and plants have truly vanished overnight, have been raucous for Clinton. I spoke with a school teacher from tiny Clinton (Indiana) as we observed Hillary’s speech at the National Headquarters of the American Legion last week, and she concurred. “I’m a moderate Democrat who loves this country and just wants to put food on the table for my children. Obama is out of touch with us folks. Hillary is not perfect, but I think she certainly understands better.”

Senator Clinton has the steadfast support of Indiana Democrat Senator Evan Bayh, who also served as Governor from 1989-1997. Bayh was hailed as a “fiscal conservative” by the Wall Street Journal in 1992, when Indiana experienced a recrudescence in economic growth. Very popular across party lines in this state, Bayh has been touring the state with Clinton the past few weeks, is seen by some as a potential running mate, and castigated Senator Obama’s “bitter cling” comments in mid-April. On Friday, the Indianapolis Star endorsed Clinton. Hard to tell how much that will aid her cause…but it won’t hurt.All in all, Hillary has done well in states like Indiana, and she has positioned herself as the more Centrist Democrat in a Republican state with few radicals. Dozens upon dozens of Independents, conservatives and Republicans with whom I have chatted recently, may also cross lines, re-register, etc, in order to vote for Mrs. Clinton and impede an Obama triumph, as many did in Pennsylvania. The Illinois Senator has offended many moderates here as well. As one man put it to me the other day, “He {Obama} is the most unqualified and divisive candidate in US history, and an insult to the Democratic Party of Truman, FDR and JFK.”

Where Obama should do well: If current trends continue, Senator Obama will succeed within the same demographics he has all season: urban areas, their most affluent suburbs and college towns — places where his elitism and media foibles are ignored by so-called Latte Liberals. Indiana has fewer of those areas than many states, but they’re still in play.

Obama will undoubtedly be hurt here by some of the condescending remarks about religious folks, gun owners and other small towners who suffer in this economy — as well as his questionable associations — but he is still immensely popular elsewhere, such as downtown Indianapolis, where I reside. He has the support of interim Democrat Congressman, Andre Carson, a practicing Muslim, who is also black, and represents the urban and 30% black 7th District. In fact, he will be holding a major rally the day before the primary on the steps of the Indiana War Memorial. More than 20,000 are expected to turn out.

The twee suburbs and million dollar historic homes just north of Indy are littered in Obama signs, easily four-fold over Hillary. Obama also has “sealed the deal” with many collegians in Bloomington, home to Indiana University. IU is long known as a bastion of radicalism, and sometimes deemed a Berkeley of the Midwest.

On the second of April, just hours before President Bill Clinton spoke at 18,000 seat Assembly Hall, Obama’s campaign office surreptitiously announced they were giving away free tickets. to the Dave Matthews Band, who was to play a concert there three days later on behalf of the Senator. Thousands of students rapidly departed, endorsing Obama due to the gesture, and leaving the former president with a paltry 6,500 spectators. (Hillary returned to speak in Bloomington on April 25.)

That superficial yet clever act won over many a voter, as Obama has done in other college towns such as Muncie and Lafayette. Indiana’s other two large cities — Evansville and Fort Wayne — also lean toward the Illinois Senator. The northwestern corner of Indiana, a heavily-populated area known as “The Region,” could also lean Obama’s way due to its proximity to Chicago and its roughly 25% African-American populace.

One big local name to come out in support of Barack Obama here is former Indiana Congressman and 9-11 “Study Group” Vice-Chair, Lee Hamilton. On April 2, the 77 year-old Hamilton uttered the usual platitudes:

“Barack Obama has the best opportunity to create a new sense of national unity and to transcend divisions within this country, not by ignoring them or smoothing them over, but by working together with candor and civility to meet our challenges.”

But ten days later, Hamilton said he disagreed with Obama’s calls for a timetable to leave Iraq.

It’s impulsive views like these that Obama must avoid to assuage legitimate concerns of scrutinizing Hoosier voters. “Hope” and “Change” and other empty rhetoric will seemingly not work as easily here as in other states. I have regularly heard colleagues and others tell me bluntly, “I’m not looking for a savior or a rock star; I’m looking for a president.”

The latest polls are mixed as of now; some show Hillary up by a point or two, while other place Obama atop. But Mr. Obama has struggled to win support from the kinds of heartland voters that could be critical to a Democratic victory in the fall.

Either way, it will be the most exciting primary election week in Indiana since Bobby Kennedy won here in May 1968.

Ari Kaufman currently resides in Indianapolis where he is a military historian for the State of Indiana’s War Memorials and an Associate Fellow at the Sagamore Institute. A former Los Angeles schoolteacher, he is the author of Reclamation: Saving our schools starts from within.
 
On the second of April, just hours before President Bill Clinton spoke at 18,000 seat Assembly Hall, Obama’s campaign office surreptitiously announced they were giving away free tickets. to the Dave Matthews Band, who was to play a concert there three days later on behalf of the Senator.

Another honest move from the "hope and chage" crowd, which likes to pay clean, fair and square :sad2:
 
Hi DISUNC, Just thought I'd add a little about Guam. Because it's a territory, the folks there can't vote in the general election. (They also don't pay federal income tax.)
The people there are great--it's a terrific place. They do have a non-voting representative to the House of Representatives. She's an amazing woman, Madeleine Bordallo. I met her a couple of time when she was the Lieutenant Governor of Guam.
Guam's status has it's good and bad points. Will be interesting to see if they, at some point again try for commonwealth status, or whether they decide to just stay a territory. (I don't really know what their chances would be for statehood, and also don't see a lot of interest...due to the federal income tax.)

That is the same for PR.

[QUOTE="Got Disney";24916806]I learned something that I did not know until last night.....did you know that Ares wife worked at the same Law Firm as Michelle Obama at the same time! Michelle worked there before her however.

They talked about it briefly last night. Wonder if they were friends:confused3 kinda strange and a coincidence that they worked at the same place don't ya think:rolleyes1

All I can say is it is a small world when it comes to Obama and some of his so called not friends.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes1 :rolleyes1 :rolleyes1



Clinton Camp Considering Nuclear Option To Overtake Delegate Lead

Hillary Clinton's campaign has a secret weapon to build its delegate count, but her top strategists say privately that any attempt to deploy it would require a sharp (and by no means inevitable) shift in the political climate within Democratic circles by the end of this month.

With at least 50 percent of the Democratic Party's 30-member Rules and Bylaws Committee committed to Clinton, her backers could -- when the committee meets at the end of this month -- try to ram through a decision to seat the disputed 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations. Such a decision would give Clinton an estimated 55 or more delegates than Obama, according to Clinton campaign operatives. The Obama campaign has declined to give an estimate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/04/clinton-camp-considering_n_100051.html


Obama says Clinton's talk on Iran too much like Bush's :scared1: (so glad he is running a clean campaign :lmao: )

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - Barack Obama likened Hillary Rodham Clinton to President Bush for threatening to "totally obliterate" Iran if it attacks Israel and called her gas-tax holiday a gimmick as he tried to fend off her challenge ahead of two pivotal Democratic primaries.

Clinton, in turn, stood by both her comment on Iran and her tax proposal as she gave chase in Indiana and North Carolina to the front-runner for the nomination.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080504/D90F3RKG0.html


Clinton gaining on Obama in North Carolina

The latest CNN poll of polls out Saturday shows Obama has a 9 point lead with 50 percent to Clinton’s 41 percent among likely Democratic voters.

The new average consists of four surveys: Zogby (May 1-2), ARG (April 30-May 1), Research 2000 (April 29-30), and Mason-Dixon (April 28-29).

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/03/clinton-gaining-on-obama-in-north-carolina/

Can we all say 'ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" :rotfl:
 
Clinton's numbers people are usually right on-they said about 11 in Penn. They're going to NC tonight. They must be pretty confident Indy is in the bag because if they lose in Indy it's all over, but if they could pull of the upset in NC it could be huge. That to me says Indy is done and NC is in play. Maybe not for a win, but for a very close lose.

ETA:just saw she's in indy today. I give up following these people.
 
I keep hoping for upsets in our favor. I mean why not? A person can dream.

Interesting, that about Guam. I never knew that they had a similar system to Puerto Rico. I can understand why they don't want statehood considering the tax thing!
 
Good morning everyone, just checking in :). I need to go back and read a few pages ...
 
Interesting opinion article on Obama.

I post it to discuss - not attack.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-rodriguez5-2008may05,0,6531897.column

Obama's theme of transcending race to "bring together" everyone sounds better in a speech than it plays out in reality.
May 5, 2008

Barack Obama loves reconciliation, but it isn't all it's cracked up to be. Sometimes it isn't even possible, and let's be honest, it isn't always the point.

About six weeks ago, during his "More Perfect Union" speech on race that some heralded as the second coming of Abraham Lincoln, Obama had a choice between reconciliation and renunciation, and, true to form, he chose the former. He protested that he could "no more disown" the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. than he could disown "the black community" or his own (sometimes politically incorrect) white grandmother. Really?

Right about now, his much-heralded tutorial on race relations is looking more like Richard Nixon's "Checkers" speech than the Gettysburg Address. Because, after last Tuesday's formal renunciation of his ties to Wright -- and presumably also his white grandmother and all blacks -- Obama looks not only tardy but thoroughly hypocritical. Didn't Obama's vaunted speech call for an open national dialogue on race, a subject he said was too important to ignore? Didn't he urge us to address those "old wounds" that still fester today? Whether you agree with him or not, isn't that exactly what Wright was doing last week when he reappeared in public to make more provocative statements on race and politics?

That's no way to start a dialogue, Mr. Obama. You don't call on people to talk and then renounce someone for speaking his mind. Because Wright didn't really say anything new last week, it seems that his only new sin is that he called Obama's bluff and, well, sparked another national dialogue on race. Which, of course, points to the absurdity of Obama's call for more racial dialogue in the first place.

Obama evidently hoped a racial dialogue would amount to a tidy academic seminar in the well-behaved, elite Ivy League, about home mortgage lending rates, test scores or economic opportunity. Presumably, after the lecture there would be time for questions and answers, maybe even some light refreshments, and no one who mattered would go on the attack.

Or better yet, maybe he imagined one of those interminably self-congratulatory racial roundtables at which the self-appointed black representative speaks to the Latino, Jewish and Asian chieftains to discuss their peoples' grievances, after which they'd all shake hands, pat themselves on the backs for "talking together" and herald a new day in race relations. Maybe they'd air the proceedings on public television or, at the very least, National Public Radio.

But lovely as it sounds, apart from the elite spokespeople, that's not the way race is lived and felt in America. For most people, it's not about statistics or civil rights cases, politics or access to healthcare. It's not even about redress or reconciliation. Rather, it's about something much deeper and more visceral, less quantifiable and more heartfelt. It's about memories and respect, hurt feelings and long grudges, fears and expectations.

As the late cultural critic Neil Postman noted, for decades social scientists have fooled themselves into thinking that their field was indeed a science rather than a form of theology. They use "regression analysis" and fancy equations to quantify what are often subjective feelings. Yes, some things can be counted -- we can know how many blacks drop out of high school or are stopped by police in any given year -- but we can't quantify the sources of the small indignities, real or imagined, that people feel they suffer at the hands of Americans of other races. Did that man look at you that way and make you feel uncomfortable because he's prejudiced? Maybe, probably, sometimes. In any case, what are we going to do about it?

Unlike Obama's facile moral equivalence between Wright and his white grandmother, we can't "bring together" everyone who has been glared at by a real or imagined bigot and those possible racists themselves. Nor can we do much to address the unambiguous racial incidents that Americans of all colors do indeed endure every day. In this remarkably diverse country, there will never be a moment when all our grievances will be addressed and forgiven.

We can aggressively prosecute and protest against actual discrimination, but the body politic cannot do much about the hurt feelings and, in Wright's case, paranoia and distrust that egregious past mistreatment of blacks has engendered. A nation is like a vast extended family, and we're not always going to get along with our crazy cousins or that peculiar aunt. And we'll never forget the way that uncle once made us feel. We can't expect constantly civil, high-minded dialogue and relations around the Thanksgiving table. We have to show up; we should show up. But as in so many families, come November, thoughts of seeing relatives are sure to conjure up as much dread as anticipation.

grodriguez@latimescolumnists.com
 
[quote="Got Disney";24885944]
There are a few posters over there that come in here and insult us yet say they never do and they dare us to show them where they have said something. WE are still being accused of using the koolaid saying and no one has said that in months:confused3

The one think we do say alot over here is that the OS seem to have a double standard. I say we just stay out of each others threads unless we have something nice to say to each other and have even suggested that and so have others here. But than we get..well we can go into any thread we want and you cant stop us and it is a free world we can say what we want anywhere on these boards and if you don't like that it's too bad

so how do you make nice with that??? WE are in our own thread and this is our own haven and should be able to discuss freely how we feel about Obama and his supporters...just as they have the right to do it in there's.
But they come in here and start stuff and say we have no right (in more colorfull words however).
[/quote]
Yeah, I know. It's a vicious cycle. One Obama Supporter comes into the Hillary thread to stir up trouble or one Hillary Supporter goes into the Obama thread to stir up trouble and then the tit-for-tat starts up, people get upset and the name calling begins. I guess all I would like to suggest is that when someone has the urge to say "Obama Supporters ..." (or, on the Obama thread "Hillary Supporters ...") that they just think twice about what they are saying and if saying it will help with the discussion or just vent their spleen.
 
Okay I'm sure some people won't like me saying this.... but thats never stopped me before! ;)

I keep hearing people talk about how the DNC will be torn in half if we don't nominate Obama. But here's what I'm wonder....

Based on what I've seen and read, it seems like many (But Not ALL) of Obama supporters are people that either couldn't be bothered to vote before or who just became old enough within the last 4 years.

Hillary on the other hand, seems to be supported by mostly (BUT NOT ALL) the longtime hardcore Dems.

Is the party really "torn in half" when a huge percentage of the voters haven't ever really been a member of the party?

I guess the question really comes down too -does it hurt the DNC more to lose the Obama supporters or the Hillary supporters? If it has to be an either or situation, personally, I think maybe the Hillary supporters.

(obviously OS feel differently and I respect that. But this is my POV)

Still catching up ...

I don't think that the Clinton campaign can discount the young (new) voters. They have always been an energizing force in the party and they are the ones who eventually become the party regulars. As much as I detest Nadar and the Green Party, I think the number of young and progressive voters who voted with them instead of Gore (and IMO, helped give Bush his first term) made the Democrats wake up a bit.

I think it's imperative that we put out the welcome mat for all voters should Hillary win. We will need to prove to the young voters that there is a place for them in the democratic party and they may not be able to see it right away.

PS: I live in a college town and work a University polling place every election, so my adoration for newly minted voters should be noted ;).
 
Still catching up ...

I don't think that the Clinton campaign can discount the young (new) voters. They have always been an energizing force in the party and they are the ones who eventually become the party regulars. As much as I detest Nadar and the Green Party, I think the number of young and progressive voters who voted with them instead of Gore (and IMO, helped give Bush his first term) made the Democrats wake up a bit.

I think it's imperative that we put out the welcome mat for all voters should Hillary win. We will need to prove to the young voters that there is a place for them in the democratic party and they may not be able to see it right away.

PS: I live in a college town and work a University polling place every election, so my adoration for newly minted voters should be noted ;).


I don't think we should discount the young voters either - but have they been decisive the last few elections? Nope. Remember all those new voters Kerry and moveon registered? Bush still won. Ugh.

Plus - if Obama wins - I'd like to see what "their" (the collective their) welcome mat is going to look like. Obama supporters around the web have villified Hillary so much - you'd think she was a right wing republican whack job! ;)
 
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