Hillary Supporters unite....no bashing please! only smiles

[chobie]

I don't know who I am going to vote for right now, should Obama get the nom. Last week I would have agreed with you, but this Wright thing really bothers me. "God D@mn America" really bothers me and I can see it playing again and again on the TV commercials in the General. If it bothers me (a die hard liberal) so much, imagine how the independents who voted for Bush are going to react.

I think we may have to hope and work for a veto-proof Congress.

I'm not trying to be insulting, but are you sure that your loyalty toward Hillary is not getting in the way here? Both camps have been pretty ugly toward each other lately.

It's highly unlikely we would get a veto-proof Congress. Unless you really think Obama has some hatred toward America and would use his position to harm our country, I can't see not voting for him and taking a chance with the Supreme Court.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I don't know who I am going to vote for right now, should Obama get the nom. Last week I would have agreed with you, but this Wright thing really bothers me. "God D@mn America" really bothers me and I can see it playing again and again on the TV commercials in the General. If it bothers me (a die hard liberal) so much, imagine how the independents who voted for Bush are going to react.

I think we may have to hope and work for a veto-proof Congress.

I understand that, and you're right-we are going to have to see how this plays out. I think the speech was good, but people may simply be too angry about the things they've heard from Rev Wright to forgive Obama for being a member of that Church. I'm just glad that I'm not running for anything-good grief, I'm Catholic! I'd probably be accused of supporting pedophilia! I went to Mass all those years and was confirmed by a Bishop who shuffled known pedophiles around. Of course, they weren't annoucing that from the pulpit, but there's still all that stuff about abortion and gay marriage.

Hillary must be SO glad that she got Calvin Butts to endorse her! He's the least objectionable of any of them! He does things like anti-smoking initiatives, speaks out against rap lyrics...normal things!

 

[punkin]

I will say that I was wrong to come to the intolerant conclusion. I just felt that in Obama's speech he alluded to what black churches are like and perhaps to you it is "strange" because it is very different from a lot of Christian churches. Many churches, white and black, preach politics from the pulpit, Wright was "exposed" because of the national spotlight on Obama. I just felt as if you were equating "different than my church" with wrong. Sorry!

I do not go to church so all this fiery preaching is strange to me, but I will say that if I heard the kind of hatred toward non-Jews in my Synagogue, I would walk out (and work to get the Rabbi fired!!!). It seems to me that a place of worship should be discussing religious obligations and not God Damning the country in which religious freedom is taken for granted. It is sickening.

 

[punkin]

I understand that, and you're right-we are going to have to see how this plays out. I think the speech was good, but people may simply be too angry about the things they've heard from Rev Wright to forgive Obama for being a member of that Church. I'm just glad that I'm not running for anything-good grief, I'm Catholic! I'd probably be accused of supporting pedophilia! I went to Mass all those years and was confirmed by a Bishop who shuffled known pedophiles around. Of course, they weren't annoucing that from the pulpit, but there's still all that stuff about abortion and gay marriage.

Hillary must be SO glad that she got Calvin Butts to endorse her! He's the least objectionable of any of them! He does things like anti-smoking initiatives, speaks out against rap lyrics...normal things!

I posted this before and will do so here. It is not that Obama attended the church (that's bad but forgivable maybe) but that this is the man Obama named his "moral compass" That is something entirely different.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Ok - so long as you are consistent. I see there are many Obama supporters that are not. They defend Obama's long time relationship with Wright while at the same time denouncing the lesser ties McCain has with Hagee and others.

I do not like either situation. But if you are gonna try and call out McCain for Hagee - you better step up and call out Obama for Wright. To do otherwise is hypocritical, in my opinion.

I have tried to call all sides out for this. I have repeatedly suggested that this event be the signal that calls for the IRS to investigate the tax exempt status of ALL these churches-Hagee, Wright, Robertson, Dobson, Parsley...any minister that endorses or demonizes a specific candidate. I don't care if its' from the pulpit or the civic center-the minister's influence over his congregation doesn't change when he steps from the lectern.

I'm a strong supporter of the separation of church and state-I want both and the only way I think we can keep both strong is to keep them separate.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I posted this before and will do so here. It is not that Obama attended the church (that's bad but forgivable maybe) but that this is the man Obama named his "moral compass" That is something entirely different.

I can understand how that's a deal breaker for some-but maybe it's my own experience that makes it not one for me.

I go to my Priest for guidance on spiritual matters-how to live a Christian life, questions of sin and issues of Church law. I don't ask him for financial advice, and I definately don't ask him who I should vote for! I have no problem separating the sacred from the secular in my dealings with him. We would definately NOT agree on my political choices.

 

[punkin]

I'm not trying to be insulting, but are you sure that your loyalty toward Hillary is not getting in the way here? Both camps have been pretty ugly toward each other lately.

It's highly unlikely we would get a veto-proof Congress. Unless you really think Obama has some hatred toward America and would use his position to harm our country, I can't see not voting for him and taking a chance with the Supreme Court.

I am not insulted. In fact I posted about my lack of objectivity earlier today in this very thread. The Supreme Court is a valid and serious argument and one that I am considering. I said I had not decided yet. I was decided last week that any Dem is better than any Repub. After this Wright thing, I am no longer sure. There are others who feel like I do about this issue and man of them are not as left leaning.

 

[MyManGoofy!]

I have tried to call all sides out for this. I have repeatedly suggested that this event be the signal that calls for the IRS to investigate the tax exempt status of ALL these churches-Hagee, Wright, Robertson, Dobson, Parsley...any minister that endorses or demonizes a specific candidate. I don't care if its' from the pulpit or the civic center-the minister's influence over his congregation doesn't change when he steps from the lectern.

I'm a strong supporter of the separation of church and state-I want both and the only way I think we can keep both strong is to keep them separate.

Yes - I see that Fitz.

My comment was in regards to the many posts I have seen on the Pastor thread (maybe others - without search I am useless!) where some of the Obama supporters are defending the Obama/Wright thing to the nth degree while at the same time denouncing McCain/Hagge - Parsley. I was simply pointing out that you (general you) cannot have it both ways.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Yes - I see that Fitz.

My comment was in regards to the many posts I have seen on the Pastor thread (maybe others - without search I am useless!) where some of the Obama supporters are defending the Obama/Wright thing to the nth degree while at the same time denouncing McCain/Hagge - Parsley. I was simply pointing out that you (general you) cannot have it both ways.

Absolutely right..

I brought up Hagee and Parsley for those on the other side who would give them a pass while jumping on the bandwagon agianst Wright.

It's too bad an athiest could never get elected in this country-it would be SO much easier. No pastors, no endorsements, all we need to know is if they support the First Amendment and we can move on.

 

[MyManGoofy!]

I'm not trying to be insulting, but are you sure that your loyalty toward Hillary is not getting in the way here? Both camps have been pretty ugly toward each other lately.

It's highly unlikely we would get a veto-proof Congress. Unless you really think Obama has some hatred toward America and would use his position to harm our country, I can't see not voting for him and taking a chance with the Supreme Court.

I am so far to the left on those political spectrum things - I think I am even farther to the left than Ghandi and the Dali Lama. I am not really all that loyal to Hillary. Just that opposed to Obama. I have that same gut feeling of something being not right as I did with GWB. (Ok - not saying THEY are the same - just that my feeling is.) And I was right on the money with GWB.

Although - I do feel that Hillary is a competent choice. She knows how the system works and how to make things work in that system. I know that many people are looking to Obama because he says he is going to change that system. No - he isn't. Sorry - he just can't. Not enough that would make any kind of real change. We would have to think long term for that. I don't know - like a combined ticket of Clinton/Obama for 8 years with Obama going on to a another 8? 16 years of control would go a long way to put some dents in the system. But no one thinks long term like that.

As far as the veto proof congress - the big scare item is Roe v. Wade. And I am half tempted to let them overturn it already. Then we can pull it together and enact some actual legislation that wouldn't be threatened at every turn instead of a court ruling that is slowly being eroded now.

 

[punkin]

As far as the veto proof congress - the big scare item is Roe v. Wade. And I am half tempted to let them overturn it already. Then we can pull it together and enact some actual legislation that wouldn't be threatened at every turn instead of a court ruling that is slowly being eroded now.

It is more than Roe v. Wade. It is environmental protection, consumer protection, anti-discrimination laws...the list goes on. I am very concerned, but it just shows how much I do not trust Obama after the Wright thing that I may be more willing to let McCain appoint more Justices rather than have Obama in office.

 

[chobie]

I am so far to the left on those political spectrum things - I think I am even farther to the left than Ghandi and the Dali Lama. I am not really all that loyal to Hillary. Just that opposed to Obama. I have that same gut feeling of something being not right as I did with GWB. (Ok - not saying THEY are the same - just that my feeling is.) And I was right on the money with GWB.

Although - I do feel that Hillary is a competent choice. She knows how the system works and how to make things work in that system. I know that many people are looking to Obama because he says he is going to change that system. No - he isn't. Sorry - he just can't. Not enough that would make any kind of real change. We would have to think long term for that. I don't know - like a combined ticket of Clinton/Obama for 8 years with Obama going on to a another 8? 16 years of control would go a long way to put some dents in the system. But no one thinks long term like that.

As far as the veto proof congress - the big scare item is Roe v. Wade. And I am half tempted to let them overturn it already. Then we can pull it together and enact some actual legislation that wouldn't be threatened at every turn instead of a court ruling that is slowly being eroded now.

I half agree with you about overturning Roe already. But there are sooo many states that already have legislation ready to go for when this happens. Some even have laws drafted that would prevent women from going to a state where it is legal. I'm afraid for all the women and girls who would sufffer while we work on getting the legislation to protect the right to choose.

 

[MyManGoofy!]

It is more than Roe v. Wade. It is environmental protection, consumer protection, anti-discrimination laws...the list goes on. I am very concerned, but it just shows how much I do not trust Obama after the Wright thing that I may be more willing to let McCain appoint more Justices rather than have Obama in office.

Oh I agree! I just used Roe as one example.

However - I do think it is kind of "the grass is always greener" arguments. If laws and protections were overturned - how long would people be happy with the results?

 

[punkin]

I am very sad. I went into this primary season with such hopes.

 

[chobie]

I am very sad. I went into this primary season with such hopes.

Me too. I hope both Hillary and Obama start hammering McCain about the war and the economy now.

BTW, I don't hold it against Hillary that she voted for the war based on the knowledge she had at the time.

 

[MerryPoppins]

I am very sad. I went into this primary season with such hopes.

Yeah. Me too. I liked all the front-runners in our party. Now, I wonder what is going to happen.

 

[WildernessBride]

I am very sad. I went into this primary season with such hopes.

Me too, who knew it would come down to this

 

[Hound 109]

Me too. I hope both Hillary and Obama start hammering McCain about the war and the economy now.

BTW, I don't hold it against Hillary that she voted for the war based on the knowledge she had at the time.

My expectations weren't quite so high. (We ARE talking about politicians. )

I hold it against each of them (fwiw) that they both (for political reasons) voted to FUND the war.

Regarding McCain, we'll have plenty of time to hit him this summer & fall. Personally, I have no problem with sorting out who the best Dem is at this time. (& there will be some serious sorting out going on in Altoona, Allentown, Bethlehem, Lancaster, etc.)

 

[Hound 109]

Nicely written (& concise) column from the main blogger dude at realclearpolitics regarding PastorGate & possible effects.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/obamas_rationale_for_bid_in_je.html

 

[punkin]

Nicely written (& concise) column from the main blogger dude at realclearpolitics regarding PastorGate & possible effects.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/obamas_rationale_for_bid_in_je.html

Loved the article. Wanted to post this excerpt particularly:

Obama is a truly gifted orator, and we should expect nothing less than a brilliantly crafted and persuasive speech today. But even bringing all of his immense talents to bear, the best he can hope for is to contain the damage and limit the fallout. Once the speech is done, however, the nagging questions about Obama's relationship with Reverend Wright will almost certainly remain, and the public will struggle to reconcile Obama's message of hope co-existing with Reverend Wright's language of hate.