Hilaria Baldwin

[RivShore]

It's kind of a funny story how we originally found out that his Grandfather and Great Uncle (they were brothers) were the first two people with his last name to emigrate to the U.S. We were in Epcot in the late 90s, and we went into that little shop in the U.K. where you can have a certificate made with your last name....and it gives the genealogical history of the name...and your 'coat of arms'. You could see what the background was...and then decide if you wanted to pay for the certificate...could have it framed...etc. When we put my husband's name in, the first two of his name were in the history to emigrate to the U.S. came up...and it was his grandfather and great uncle who emigrated here together....in 1910. Angelo, and Vincenzo. Angelo is his grandfather.....he was 37 when Vincenzo was 32. They met two sisters here in NJ....19 and 23. Angelo married the 19 year old, Maria.....Vincenzo married her sister Lucia...24. The sisters emigrated from Basilicata Italy. Between them...they went on to have 11 children....one of them is my Father-in Law...who is the baby of the group of children (he'll be 90 in September). It really blows me away to think that my husband's grandfather was born in 1873....eight years after our Civil War ended.

My husband started the process three years ago....first thing you must do is get an appointment with the Consulate. It takes two years to get the appointment, and that's before Covid. And so during that time my husband sent away for tons of documents...all needed to be official. So he had to request birth records of his grandparents, census records from here, marriage records, and most importantly, proof that his grandfather was not a naturalized citizen when my husband's father was born. His grandfather registered as an "Alien" each year in NJ...well beyond the birth of his last son....my husband's father. That right of "Jure Sanguinis"....latin sometimes translated as "by the blood"....In order to demonstrate that you have inherited a right to citizenship by descent, you must demonstrate that citizenship was transmitted from your Italian-born ascendant to you. And so by not applying for citizenship here in the U.S., Angelo never forfeited his Italian citizenship....which then passed to his children, and their children. It gets complicated with women and daughters born before 1948...but I believe they've changed the rules to allow Jure Sanguinis to pass on to women as well. So kind of them. .

My husband's appointment was March 27th of 2020. Right when the "you know what" was hitting the fan due to Covid. But....he was contacted by a representative at the Italian Consulate...and they accepted and approved all of his documents which they allowed him to send by Fed Ex. Now, they will check other consulates in the United States and other places, to be sure that Angelo never applied for U.S. citizenship during his life. We know he did not. He lived until age 94. He fathered my father in law....at age 60...lol. In normal times, it takes another two years once your application is accepted. But...we think it will take an extra year, possibly more due to covid. He's one year out now, and he's had no contact from them with any questions regarding his documents....etc. That's all fine...as we have no plans to move to Italy or the EU anytime soon. But....it's been a very interesting project for my husband. I look forward to going to that little town in Sicily....and meeting lots of people with my last name....that of my husband. .

Fascinating!! Thanks for taking the time to reply - it's so much better than reading about the fake Spaniard

 

[bcla]

It's kind of a funny story how we originally found out that his Grandfather and Great Uncle (they were brothers) were the first two people with his last name to emigrate to the U.S. We were in Epcot in the late 90s, and we went into that little shop in the U.K. where you can have a certificate made with your last name....and it gives the genealogical history of the name...and your 'coat of arms'. You could see what the background was...and then decide if you wanted to pay for the certificate...could have it framed...etc. When we put my husband's name in, the first two of his name were in the history to emigrate to the U.S. came up...and it was his grandfather and great uncle who emigrated here together....in 1910. Angelo, and Vincenzo. Angelo is his grandfather.....he was 37 when Vincenzo was 32. They met two sisters here in NJ....19 and 23. Angelo married the 19 year old, Maria.....Vincenzo married her sister Lucia...24. The sisters emigrated from Basilicata Italy. Between them...they went on to have 11 children....one of them is my Father-in Law...who is the baby of the group of children (he'll be 90 in September). It really blows me away to think that my husband's grandfather was born in 1873....eight years after our Civil War ended.

My husband started the process three years ago....first thing you must do is get an appointment with the Consulate. It takes two years to get the appointment, and that's before Covid. And so during that time my husband sent away for tons of documents...all needed to be official. So he had to request birth records of his grandparents, census records from here, marriage records, and most importantly, proof that his grandfather was not a naturalized citizen when my husband's father was born. His grandfather registered as an "Alien" each year in NJ...well beyond the birth of his last son....my husband's father. That right of "Jure Sanguinis"....latin sometimes translated as "by the blood"....In order to demonstrate that you have inherited a right to citizenship by descent, you must demonstrate that citizenship was transmitted from your Italian-born ascendant to you. And so by not applying for citizenship here in the U.S., Angelo never forfeited his Italian citizenship....which then passed to his children, and their children. It gets complicated with women and daughters born before 1948...but I believe they've changed the rules to allow Jure Sanguinis to pass on to women as well. So kind of them. .

My husband's appointment was March 27th of 2020. Right when the "you know what" was hitting the fan due to Covid. But....he was contacted by a representative at the Italian Consulate...and they accepted and approved all of his documents which they allowed him to send by Fed Ex. Now, they will check other consulates in the United States and other places, to be sure that Angelo never applied for U.S. citizenship during his life. We know he did not. He lived until age 94. He fathered my father in law....at age 60...lol. In normal times, it takes another two years once your application is accepted. But...we think it will take an extra year, possibly more due to covid. He's one year out now, and he's had no contact from them with any questions regarding his documents....etc. That's all fine...as we have no plans to move to Italy or the EU anytime soon. But....it's been a very interesting project for my husband. I look forward to going to that little town in Sicily....and meeting lots of people with my last name....that of my husband. .

The hardest part would be "proving a negative". But it would probably be easier if there were a naturalization certificate that shows that a naturalization occurred after the birth of the descendant.

 

[dvcgirl67]

The hardest part would be "proving a negative". But it would probably be easier if there were a naturalization certificate that shows that a naturalization occurred after birth.

You're absolutely right..."proving the negative" is harder. Had his grandfather been naturalized after his father was born....that's way easier. Proving "Certificate of Non-existence" is harder for sure. My husband got that certificate of United States Citizenship Imigration Services (USCIS). It's a fancy certificate with a red seal....saying that at far as the U.S. Immigration Services is concerned....my husband's grandfather did not become a naturalized citizen prior to the birth of his father. Now it's the hands of the Italians.... in the closest consulate to our jurisdiction....New York. Now they will check everywhere his grandfather lived (only in NJ), where my father-in-law lived (in NJ and Philadelphia), and where we lived...in California (San Francisco) and Florida (Miami). Just to prove that your grandfather or anyone in the line ever renounced their right to Italian citizenship. Then once they're happy with all of that.......they send all of these records to the actual town where his Grandfather was born in Sicily....and all of these records, the grandparents marriage here in NJ, the birth of my father in law, the marriage of my in-laws, my husband's birth, and the marriage of my husband to me...must be registered in that little town in Sicily. Once that is all registered and accepted....he will be granted Italian citizenship.

So maybe that's why I find it super annoying that Hilary Baldwin....is playing this "culture fluidity" game...as if she's a Spaniard. She's not. I've watched this process...it's not easy, but it's super interesting, and it's real. It's the truth...this is who my husband is...it's where his people are from. I've watched my husband do so much research which we're both finding so interesting....and he's gotten to the point where he will proudly move forward to claim his right. I can also get dual citizenship, but I will have to take a language test and a citizenship test as his wife to acquire that. Otherwise I'd get a kind residency permit which differs in different regions of Italy. We'll cross that Rialto Bridge when we get to it .

 

[dvcgirl67]

Fascinating!! Thanks for taking the time to reply - it's so much better than reading about the fake Spaniard

Thanks for asking about it. I'm actually quite proud of the journey my husband has taken us on through this process. The binder that he put together with all of the documents that he took years to track down....was really something. Now we wait...but my husband is a meticulous kind of guy....and I have no doubt he'll be granted citizenship. It's been an easier process for him when it comes to this...he has a rare Italian last name, and so finding his people was much easier than tracking down my people. I had a more generic Anglo-Saxon maiden surname. I'd need help from professional genealogists to find my people. I'm okay with being married to a smart Italian guy and spending lots of time in Italy and the EU as his wife.

 

[bcla]

Fascinating!! Thanks for taking the time to reply - it's so much better than reading about the fake Spaniard

The hard part of doing this sort of thing is the paperwork to establish the lineal descent.

It might even be possible to do something similar with US citizenship, although there are actually a lot more rules for US citizenship by descent than most other countries. There are a few cases where the ability to obtain US citizenship by descent isn't automatic. There was one controversial case where someone sued because the rules were different for an unwed US citizen mother (easier) than for an unwed US citizen father.

 

[bcla]

You're absolutely right..."proving the negative" is harder. Had his grandfather been naturalized after his father was born....that's way easier. Proving "Certificate of Non-existence" is harder for sure. My husband got that certificate of United States Citizenship Imigration Services (USCIS). It's a fancy certificate with a red seal....saying that at far as the U.S. Immigration Services is concerned....my husband's grandfather did not become a naturalized citizen prior to the birth of his father. Now it's the hands of the Italians.... in the closest consulate to our jurisdiction....New York. Now they will check everywhere his grandfather lived (only in NJ), where my father-in-law lived (in NJ and Philadelphia), and where we lived...in California (San Francisco) and Florida (Miami). Just to prove that your grandfather or anyone in the line ever renounced their right to Italian citizenship. Then once they're happy with all of that.......they send all of these records to the actual town where his Grandfather was born in Sicily....and all of these records, the grandparents marriage here in NJ, the birth of my father in law, the marriage of my in-laws, my husband's birth, and the marriage of my husband to me...must be registered in that little town in Sicily. Once that is all registered and accepted....he will be granted Italian citizenship.

So maybe that's why I find it super annoying that Hilary Baldwin....is playing this "culture fluidity" game...as if she's a Spaniard. She's not. I've watched this process...it's not easy, but it's super interesting, and it's real. It's the truth...this is who my husband is...it's where his people are from. I've watched my husband do so much research which we're both finding so interesting....and he's gotten to the point where he will proudly move forward to claim his right. I can also get dual citizenship, but I will have to take a language test and a citizenship test as his wife to acquire that. Otherwise I'd get a kind residency permit which differs in different regions of Italy. We'll cross that Rialto Bridge when we get to it .

That is a boatload of work. The US is generally not as stringent when it comes to that kind of paperwork and tracking down every possible angle.

There's been some controversy since the US has jus soli citizenship, albeit with some limitations if someone was working as a diplomat (or possibly consular officer) in the US. Since a US birth certificate is a de facto proof of US citizenship, there have been some children of long-serving diplomats who used that to obtain a US passport, but when they run into trouble they pull out the diplomatic immunity angle.

Also - there are often no assumptions made that there wasn't some intervening event such as a formal renunciation of citizenship. The State Dept may or may not research whether or not a passport applicant is no longer a US citizen as long as all the documents seem to be in order.

 

[dvcgirl67]

That is a boatload of work. The US is generally not as stringent when it comes to that kind of paperwork and tracking down every possible angle.

There's been some controversy since the US has jus soli citizenship, albeit with some limitations if someone was working as a diplomat (or possibly consular officer) in the US. Since a US birth certificate is a de facto proof of US citizenship, there have been some children of long-serving diplomats who used that to obtain a US passport, but when they run into trouble they pull out the diplomatic immunity angle.

Also - there are often no assumptions made that there wasn't some intervening event such as a formal renunciation of citizenship. The State Dept may or may not research whether or not a passport applicant is no longer a US citizen as long as all the documents seem to be in order.

Yes....it's been a lot of work for him. But over time it's become a labor of love for him to research his heritage and find his ancestors. And even when he acquires dual citizenship, he's not going to be walking around speaking English to me with an Italian accent. When I call him for whatever reason when I'm out working....he will occasionally answer the phone by saying "Pronto"....which makes me laugh. But he's doing the work...both in acquiring citizenship and making a very serious run at learning the language. And I ever acquire dual Italian citizenship as his spouse.....I'm not going to act as though this is my heritage. I'll be respectful and always clearly understand....that I am not Italian....not even a little bit. I will act like what I would be in that situation...a welcomed guest.

The whole thing with Hilary Baldwin...who changed her name to Hilaria because it's more "interesting"...or whatever....is that she's a fake. She's someone who has spent a fair amount of time in Spain because she likes it there...and her Anglo-Saxon parents now live there. Good for her...that's awesome. But to pretend that she's Spanish...isn't cool. It's not like she's actually hurting anyone, but she was caught in a series of lies over a number of years. She was 5 kids in already with her famous/wealthy husband, and now they're trying to scrub it all up like it's "cultural fluidity".....which isn't a thing. And I'm actually quite liberal when it comes to all social matters. I just find her IG post to be ridiculous.

 

[bcla]

Yes....it's been a lot of work for him. But over time it's become a labor of love for him to research his heritage and find his ancestors. And even when he acquires dual citizenship, he's not going to be walking around speaking English to me with an Italian accent. When I call him for whatever reason when I'm out working....he will occasionally answer the phone by saying "Pronto"....which makes me laugh. But he's doing the work...both in acquiring citizenship and making a very serious run at learning the language. And I ever acquire dual Italian citizenship as his spouse.....I'm not going to act as though this is my heritage. I'll be respectful and always clearly understand....that I am not Italian....not even a little bit. I will act like what I would be in that situation...a welcomed guest.

I worked at a European company with a lot of Italian and French expats working in my office, albeit one that was more Italian than French in my group. There were a lot of people who used Italian phrases in the office, including some of the French. The most common greeting in the office was "ciao". I started to say "grazie" at various places and even got "prego" as a response one time. My boss even said it might be useful for me to learn Italian.

I also worked at a division of a company doing a ton of business in Hawaii. Most in our group didn't do it, but there was one customer service rep who always answered the phone with "Aloha". That was just weird.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

On a side note I can proudly say I actually have Spanish ancestry which I was not aware of, don't think anyone was, as my dad had his ancestry done not too long ago and it came back that he was not only Irish (thought that was pretty much it lol) but English, with some Scandanavian, Spanish, and a tiny amount of Ashkenazi Jew, found this exciting lol. Haven't done my own yet but going to soon.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

On a side note I can proudly say I actually have Spanish ancestry which I was not aware of, don't think anyone was, as my dad had his ancestry done not too long ago and it came back that he was not only Irish (thought that was pretty much it lol) but English, with some Scandanavian, Spanish, and a tiny amount of Ashkenazi Jew, found this exciting lol. Haven't done my own yet but going to soon.

I only started genealogy research a few years ago and stumbled over the fact that I had a French ancestor on my Mom's side. I had no idea.

 

[HadesFan]

I actually am half Spanish, and would never make the absurd claims that Hilaria did.

 

[Lehuaann]

I saw this and thought of this thread. Happy New Year

https://twitter.com/x/status/1874874524002644303

 

[mom2rtk]

I saw this and thought of this thread. Happy New Year

https://twitter.com/x/status/1874874524002644303

Are we supposed to just forget that we all know this is all fake?

 

[BayouQueen]

I haven't read the whole thread, but Hilaria is an interesting case for sure. As for Alec Baldwin, he seems to like "crazy." Kim Basinger is reportedly very eccentric, but anyone who ever saw "My Stepmother is an Alien," which is a two-hour display of her beauty, will understand why he was willing to overlook a lot there.

I had a friend who spent three months in France and came back pretending not to remember English. The French accent was definitely cool. So why not, I guess.

 

[Imzadi]

Are we supposed to just forget that we all know this is all fake?

Maybe she's got a multiple duo personality disorder?

 

[AustinTink]

Oh, good grief, she’s still pretending to be from Spain and faking her language barrier? This irks me to no end.

 

[Lehuaann]

Are we supposed to just forget that we all know this is all fake?

Yes

I haven't read the whole thread, but Hilaria is an interesting case for sure. As for Alec Baldwin, he seems to like "crazy." Kim Basinger is reportedly very eccentric, but anyone who ever saw "My Stepmother is an Alien," which is a two-hour display of her beauty, will understand why he was willing to overlook a lot there.

I had a friend who spent three months in France and came back pretending not to remember English. The French accent was definitely cool. So why not, I guess.

Hilaria misrepresented her heritage by claiming to be born in Mallorca..until folks found out she’s Hillary from Boston, and English is her first language.

Oh, good grief, she’s still pretending to be from Spain and faking her language barrier? This irks me to no end.

The video below is from post #2 when she forgot the english word cucumber. At least back then I could understand what she was saying.

Now, I barely understand her.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Oh, good grief, she’s still pretending to be from Spain and faking her language barrier? This irks me to no end.

She has to have a clinical mental illness. She is aware of the fact that everyone knows the truth, yet she continues to behave like a delusional person. I hope she doesn't play these mind games with her children. Alec has to be equally nuts.

 

[LuvOrlando]

A very disrespectful human, the whole behavior is gross to me because it steals support meant for a group without a voice. How dare she, should be ashamed.

 

[cabanafrau]

Don't they have a reality series coming soon?

If the old maxim that any publicity is good holds I think we should expect nothing less in the era when influencers are the top of the heap.