Hey, Catholic parents with children in CCD. . .a ? and Input, please. (VERY LONG)

[minniecarousel]

Wow - this makes me even more grateful for the religion classes at my parish.

Our older DS did not get confirmed - he wanted to stop going to Mass & CCD while in HS. I wasn't going to force him. Younger DS was confirmed as a 10th grader - I think he did this more for me than anything (he's a Pleaser). I think it's sad that the Catholic church is not working harder to retain HS students in their programs. It should require commitment on the part of the student, but it shouldn't be so time-consuming. It would nice if the curriculum for high-schoolers could be similar to that for adults wanting to be confirmed.

I have no suggestions for you - remember that your children can be confirmed as adults, when it may mean more to them.

 

[Tess]

The reason it's so hard to "understand" is because there are NO hard and fast rules--it's discretionary based upon each individual Bishop's personal beliefs about what is right/correct or, more importantly, convenient for him. That's where the frustration comes from. At least ours does--the Bishop sets the rules for when he will show up to confirm, the parish makes a set of rules about when the kid will be confirmed, and the diocese sets the rules of how much religious ed will be required. Way too much bureaucracy for such a deeply rooted religious experience.

I am usually a real go with the flow kinda' gal. I would probably bite the bullet on this matter too IF there weren't so many people in our own parish who feel the same. It's just a small parish in a small town. For the most part, we all know one another, speak frequently, and give to our church equally. CCD seems to be the one major bone of contention within our church. I believe that's why frustration with this issue runs so high--there is no power to change it. Most of us, although not all, do not wish to give up our small town parish family for this issue. I know I don't. I like my church and church family--it's just this one issue that causes consternation. I don't think it's necessary to cut off my nose to spite my face. We have, however, made our feelings well-known to the priest and head of religious ed as well as the CCD teachers. This was done politely, but firmly. I do not think they will/would be at all surprised if our kids did not enroll this year. In fact, a good many kids in my son's 9/10 class did not. Some paid for the class and I'm sure will only show up this Sunday for confirmation. What are they gonna' do--physically remove them from the mass?

I guess for the sake of family harmony and despite my own personal wants, I will go with the majority at home and allow my oldest to opt out of CCD after this year. I think they can manage two more classes this year. Now, my daughter will be a different story--I'll have to see about the requirements. I know if I actually ask, I will be told she MUST attend next year. I seriously doubt they will deny her the sacrament if she returns for CCD in her 10th grade year. Fingers crossed anyway. I know other young kids have taken RCIA rather than do CCD. I'd rather see her make confirmation with her friends though.

I am so relieved that other people here are experiencing the same angst with religious education that I am. My religion gives me no such upset--it's just the bureaucracy of it all that does. Your right OhMari--"Have faith" is not an answer--this isn't about faith. . .it's about consistency from parish to parish, diocese to diocese, and state to state. If we had not moved 8 years ago, both my children would already be confirmed without all this uproar--we didn't change states, just diocese.

I really appreciate all the input and story sharing!

 

[jjcollins]

Here do the kids get any choice in this ??? why send them there if the don't like it ??



jj.......

 

[buddy&wooz]

Confirmation is in 8th grade here, but I can relate to the hold the kids hostage thing. Most of the kids, once they get past 6th grade, don't want to be there. My husband is a CCD teacher. He taught 4th grade and thinks that's the best year, the kids are genuinely interested and open. Now he's teaching 5th and he's starting to see them lose interest.

I remember my oldest son coming home from CCD in 7th and 8th grade and only having horror stories about kids running rampant to tell, rather than learning anything remotely religious. I hate to force my younger two to stick it out through that, but they have to in order to be confirmed (which I actually don't care if they do or don't - but it's important to my husband and I've chosen to support him on that.) Once they're confirmed it's up to my kids whether to go to church. My oldest has chosen to continue, he's actually never complained about going, and he's an assistant in the CCD program to earn service hours for HS. (we have no youth program, which is a mistake IMO.)

And another annoying issue we have here- kids in 1st and 2nd grade and 7th and 8th grade- the years required for receiving sacraments- have to bring in signed bulletins from mass each week. After mass the kids all line up at the back of the church for priestly autographs. It's insane.

 

[Tess]

kids in 1st and 2nd grade and 7th and 8th grade- the years required for receiving sacraments- have to bring in signed bulletins from mass each week. After mass the kids all line up at the back of the church for priestly autographs.

Shhhh! Don't say that too loudly--the 9/10 teacher might hear you! I'm quite surprised she hasn't thought about this one. I think she's a teacher "wannabe" without the education! Those notes of excuse from parents OR in advance if you need to be "excused" for a family weekend are what grind my soul. My son doesn't need all that much to be excused from his Sunday job! He just needs to ask 10 days in advance! Jeez. . .

Going to Mass is not even an issue for our family--we go each week, Holy days, holidays, penance services, etc. That's why I get so miffed about these "notes" to the teacher--we aren't slackers--we are actively involved in our church and our faith. For those that aren't--the silly requirement is an exercise in futility.

 

[LvsTnk]

Both kids in Catholic school. One made her confirmation in 8th grade through school and only attended several extra confirmaion classes. My DS made his in 10th grade and had to attend special classes 2x's a month.

They never complained about any of it. They both were anxious to make their confirmation. Of course now they don't have to attend CCD because they have theology in school every day.

I think if it were my kids i would let the older one quit with the agreement he stay involved in the parish. The younger one would be required to keep going until she made her confirmation.

Isn't that one of the points of confirmation....you are now a member of the Catholic faith....why would you still go to CCD?

We also have youth ministry first Sunday of every month that includes a teen mass and pot luck dinner. They also have lots of activities they do as well.

 

[Tess]

Isn't that one of the points of confirmation....you are now a member of the Catholic faith....why would you still go to CCD?

My point exactly! I have yet to get a straight up answer on this point. In fact, the only answer I've received is that because they have to be in CCD for "religious training" somhow intimating that we, as parents, and the church itself through the Masses--aren't providing enough religious training for the teens. If that's the case, why are adult and teen confirmants (RCIA folks) required to attend continuing religious education classes--I thought that was the point of RCIA?

I don't foresee a time when my kids won't attend Mass--maybe they'll slip a bit if they go away to college (versus commuting); I know they will go when at home and I won't have to force them. If they are confirmed they are in full communion with the body and therefore a full member of the church. There's no further sacrament until marriage or ordination--whichever vocation (or not) they choose.

I may have to press this question until I get an answer that is an actual response to the question. I kind of resent the thought that someone would feel my husband and I are not able to properly provide "religious training"--we've done pretty well with our kids thus far.

 

[LynnM]

Quoting:
"Here do the kids get any choice in this ??? why send them there if the don't like it ??"

No, sorry my kids don't get a choice. They don't like school sometimes, but they still have to go. We made a commitment at their baptism to bring them up in the Catholic faith and that is what I plan on doing. When they are 18 and out on their own, they can make a choice.

Signing bulletins-we do something similar to that for th 7th & 8th graders. They hand the priest a card with their name on it so Father can get to know the kids. It was instituted because so many kids were being confirmed who never attended mass and Father had no idea who they were. He understands that sometimes mass is missed, but it is not a big deal unless a kid has extremely poor attendance.

Tess- are they asking for notes so the absences can be excused or just so they know that a child will be absent? We request a note or phonecall reporting absences just so we know for sure that the parent knows that their child is not at CCD. It can be tempting for some of the older kids who walk to CCD to skip class.
I don't think we've ever had a problem excusing kids for family reasons.

 

[jjcollins]

No, sorry my kids don't get a choice. They don't like school sometimes, but they still have to go. We made a commitment at their baptism to bring them up in the Catholic faith and that is what I plan on doing. When they are 18 and out on their own, they can make a choice.

Sorry by then they'll have been brain-washed thats what its all about - Catholic church ask all the abused kids what they think of the Catholic faith - this is the church that tried for years to hide everything all round the world.


jj......

 

[buddy&wooz]

Signing bulletins-we do something similar to that for th 7th & 8th graders. They hand the priest a card with their name on it so Father can get to know the kids. It was instituted because so many kids were being confirmed who never attended mass and Father had no idea who they were. He understands that sometimes mass is missed, but it is not a big deal unless a kid has extremely poor attendance.

I understand this, and I actually think it sounds like a pretty good idea for the priest to get to know the kids a bit. The problem with the autographed bulletins is that there is a herd of kids (it's a large parish, most of the CCD kids go to the same 10am mass that begins right after their CCD class) and the priest doesn't even look up at whose bulletin he's signing. Plus the kids are expected to bring signed bulletins if they are away and go to mass elsewhere. It was fun watching the priest at my mom's parish roll his eyes when we explained why we needed his signature! They do count the bulletins and expect to see no more than two missed weeks during the CCD year (summers don't count, no way to keep track I guess .)

I really think it creates an us vs them atmosphere. The parochial school kids don't need to get the bulletins signed, and it sends the message that they don't trust parents enough that they'll get their kids to mass. Sure, some won't if they're not "forced", but to me that issue is between them and God.

Which comes back to the original issue- should they be forcing kids to go to CCD, using the late confirmation as coercion? I think it sends the wrong message to kids who are at a rebellious age to begin with.

 

[LynnM]

jjcollins posted:
Sorry by then they'll have been brain-washed thats what its all about - Catholic church ask all the abused kids what they think of the Catholic faith - this is the church that tried for years to hide everything all round the world.

Don't accuse me of having my kids brainwashed. I said I was raising my children in the Catholic faith. They attend CCD classes and mass. The abuse crisis in the Catholic church is not going to stop my family from practicing our religion. Just as the abuse by coaches and teachers is not going to stop my children from going to school or playing sports. They are not nieve and know that abuse can happen anywhere by anyone. They also know that they can trust their parents to believe them.
I'm sorry, but my 13 year old is not going to tell me he has decided not to attend church or CCD
When they are 18, they can make a choice to continue with in the Catholic church, go to another or not go at all, but as a parent my responsibility is to provide them with a faith foundation.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

Originally posted by jjcollins
Sorry by then they'll have been brain-washed thats what its all about - Catholic church ask all the abused kids what they think of the Catholic faith - this is the church that tried for years to hide everything all round the world.


jj......

Oh brother.

 

[frndshpcptn]

As a child I was always jealous of my friends who went to CCD. They only had to go to religious school once a week. As a Jewish child I had to go to Hebrew School at my temple 2 hours a day, 3 times a week. I hated it at the time, but looking back on it I'm very glad my parents made me go. I learned a lot there and was able to really understand Saturday morning sevices during what I call "the year of the bar/bat mitvahs" when we were in temple for 3 hours every Saturday morning watching our friends read from the Torah. Now, when I go to temple I remember some of the stuff from Hebrew school and think I would have missed out had I not gone.

 

[Madi100]

I was raised Lutheran. Not Catholic, but we had midweek classes from the time I was in 5th grade until 8th. Where I was confirmed, they only went 6th through 8th. The church I started at started them in 3rd grade. We didn't have a choice about going. We went. In the first church, it was right after school on Wed. In the other, it was in the evening. In our community then and now, we had family night. Nothing school related was planned for Wednesday night. In fact, our current school where my daughter goes is charging theirs to coincide with other communities around. Is that not a common practice?

As far as continuing to go...if you faith and religion are important to you, and you feel that CCD classes are important, than you have no choice but to continue sending them. You don't want to find another church. I'm not saying that if you don't go to classes, you aren't a good Christian. I'm just saying if you view CCD classes as an important part of your faith, then they should finish.

I do believe that your church is wrong in how they are getting kids to come to church. I'm not putting down your faith, just the practice of your church. I firmly believe that if you shove religion down a teenager's throat, they are going to rebel. I pray that with my children, I set a good example while they are younger so that once they are in high school, they still have the desire to be part of the church. I was very involved with church as a teenager. I wanted to be. My parent didn't give me the choice, though, and forced me to do things. I didn't miss a Sunday of church or a Youth Group event. I don't bellieve by missing one or two of either is bad. My brother, on the other hand, had enough of it, and he forgot about the good of religion, and he can only remember the bad part of gagging on it. He is now an atheist.

Maybe if you could get some of the parents together and discuss your feelings and come up with a solution someone higher up in the church would listen.

 

[pammypooh]

Tess,

I am sorry you are struggling with your ccd program.

I am blessed to be in a great parish with my kids in parish school. We confirm in 7th grade.

Our parish does offer a middle school youth group, as well as a high school youth group. While the groups are about fun, and service, faith is always there.

We also offer a teen ccd - like a bible study for youth. (this is optional btw) IMO - things like this need to be interactive - not just an adult preaching to the youth - they need to talk, discuss and debate at their level with a knowledgable leader to keep study moving forward and centered.

As far as special child abuse prevention/awareness - in my archdio. every teacher, staffperson (religious and layperson), and volunteer is required to undergo training and a criminal check and child abuse check.

I wish everyone good luck in their efforts to educate their children in their faith. Please don't lose sight of what you are trying to teach them. If enough of the parents/children in the program are struggling with an element of the program - try conducting a "town meeting" type session. Ask for someone from the archdio. to attend.

Good luck.

Pam

 

[onecoolmama]

For those of you that know me..it would very much suprise you all to know that my mom is the DRE at her parish.

Yup, she runs the CCD program and I asked her about CCD. She said they confirm in 8th grade (which I knew having been confirmed) but that you must stay in the program two years before recieveing any of the sacraments.

So, if you want to recieve confirmation...you have to attend CCD from 6-8th grade. She also wishes that our diocese waited until kids were older becuase this is them making the decision for themselves and it really should be more of a personal chioce then the parents forcing their kids. But as others have said..they would lose a lot of kids doing that.

She couldn't talk for long becuase she had to run to her RCIA program, but I will ask her what she tells parents whose kids HATE the program.

 

[swea_pea1]

Interesting thread.....

I am a Catholic and was confirmed in the 8th grade. But back then there were much more parents sending their kids to Catholic School, more priests, more resources. The reason that some parishes only have children confirmed every 2 years is because there is a shortage of priests, leading to a shortage of bishops.

I find it interesting that so many posters have commented that once an individual is confirmed the "teaching" part of the religion is over. I went to a Catholic High School and learned much more about my faith during those 4 years than I had in the years between 4th and 8th grade.

I also did a stint as a CCD teacher. I taught first grade and went through all kinds of education in order to become a CCD teacher. More learning for me about the church even though my intended class was just learning "the basics".

Now, I'm 36 and still find myself looking to my copy of the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" whenever I'm wondering about something. So, I'm still learning.

I think religion is an evolutionary process. As I matured and had life experiences, my thought processes matured as well and sometimes required more education about the Catholic Church. I remember distinctly when we were trying to get pregnant looking in my "Catechism" for references to adoption, artificial insemination, etc.

My children are 2 and 4. My daughter will start CCD in the fall. I plan on stressing that their religious education should *never* end. Just like mine is an ongoing process, so should theirs be.

 

[Tess]

I don't think anyone--or at least the vast majority--would argue your point. Religion is an ongoing conversion as is education in general. I don't think anyone, including the Holy Father, would claim to have all the answers.

The concern of the post is when is it enough already for CCD? Do you not feel that parents are capable of instructing, guiding, and modeling the faith for our kids post-confirmation? If the child has chosen to be confirmed, has a sponsor, and parental support; why should he/she continue to be forced to attend a "class"? They've made the choice of faith--why isn't attendance at Masses and church involvement as good for him/her as any other full member of the church?

The other concerns deal with why the church has no hard and fast rules that are all encompassing. Why is it that my former parish can confirm then have first communion in 2nd grade while my current parish won't confirm until 10th grade? Still others have posted that they confirm anywhere from 4th-6th and some not until a child is 16-17 y/o.

It's very difficult to instruct and guide our children when the "rules" are very arbitrary and differ from parish to parish and diocese to diocese.

Your point is well taken though and I wholeheartedly agree--that isn't the dilemma for me.

 

[PATRICIA WOLFE]

I am 50+ Catholic. When I was a child, we were confirmed in 5th or 6th grade. Since then it has been moved to 11th grade. (Altoona PA).
I can feel your pain, my kids are grown, but they too transferred to public school and had to go to ccd program. It was a chore to get them to go especially when they scheduled them at 9:00 in the morning!

There are pros and cons. Confirmation is sacrament where you choose to continue a life in Christ as an ADULT. 5th and 6th graders are not adults, although some are very intelligent and somewhat mature, it is still not an age to make "adult" decisions. They still need some more answers, guidance. from religious education and parents. But is 11th grade the right grade, is that waiting too long....but if we confirm at 6th grade, is that 6th grader making a true adult decision.
But I think they do, at this age, need something similar to Confirmation--a proclamation perhaps of their desire to further their education until it is appropriate age for Confirmation.

I wouldn't want Confirmation to be given just as a reward for attendance. I'd like to see it as a real genuine decision these kids make.

Here is the conumdrum as you said, the kids in older grades do get bored in CCD classes when they only involve lectures, workbooks, lessons. I don't think that workbook lessons should be requirement. I think that at 6th grade, they should be tested -given exam-- to be sure they understand the basic concepts of Catholicism. If they pass, they then enter a period where they go into "community" phase--taking your beliefs into the real world. The boring lectures/lessons don't have to go away completely, but the big focus now should be to show them how to put our faith to action by providing them opportunities to volunteer, perform community service, do group projects with their peers. The time in the classroom should be used to meet as a group and contribute their ideas as to how they want to achieve it.

They are at the beginning of their teen years--a very rough time in life, where decision making is important. This is where the CCD program needs to provide them with books, literature, lessons, activities that help them make the right choices by using the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the friendships formed will be reinforcements. They are too young to figure this out on their own.

the CCD programs need help. They need resources, ideas for community service, group teen projects. They need the parents to help. Parents should volunteer to help in the CCD programs. Parents can provide so much input on what their children are interested in, marrying their interests with activities / community service projects. for example, if someone wants to be a doctor, they can become a candy striper in hospital, etc......

Parents should not leave the religious education up to the CCD program. I am not just talking about the facts, I am talking about the basic fundamentals of our religion, which to me is to be kind, to love one another, and treat people with respect and dignity as Jesus does.

One counterpoint I do want to make is, that too many times these days, we are letting the kids get away with NOT doing what they should do. They say "I don't like it. It's boring." and we buy into it all the time and say "ok, you don't have to go", that is not helping them either. They need to know there are certain things they have to do, whether they like it or have "fun" all the time in it. This teaches them responsibility. We don't always like going to work sometimes--it's boring and don't want to go, but we have to if we want to provide security for our children... and with this kind of decision and the importance, it should not be taken lightly.

Perhaps get involved. Offer some help or ideas. Start a Youth Group for the Teens so they can gather and do the fun things in a Christian atmosphere. It may help them get thru the "boring" lectures/lessons during regular CCD class

 

[Kitty 34]

Welcome to the DIS, Patricia Wolfe. Interesting 12 year old thread to jump right in on!!