Help with grieving mil UPDATE FEB 17

[luvsJack]

My mother lost her husband 12 years ago. She STILL cannot get rid of anything he owned, touched or looked at. When I was there last month I found a double closet full of men's jeans and chambray workshirts, his signature outfit. There had to be over 35 pairs of work shoes. Mother says she's "been meaning to" take them somewhere, but she won't allow me to gather them up and take them. And this is after 12 YEARS! I would never expect someone who has lost a loved one, especially a widow or widower, to start giving things away and updating their home. It took my mom almost 10 years to take the guns down off the walls, and she had been complaining about them for 20 years before he died!

My mom was the same way. Dad had two old trucks and some other "junk" that he used for parts when he was fixing things. She fussed about the mess for years but after he died, it took years for her to let us get rid of any of it.

 

[quandrea]

The purging we are talking about is excess furniture, dishes, knick knacks. I wouldn't think of pushing getting rid of his stuff. We don't even push purging anything or remodelling. She seems to sink lower and lower looking around her space and verbalized her distaste for it Dh wants to help her get rid of a dining room set she hates, excess beds, bedroom furniture from his childhood. The place is beginning to look like something out of that show Hoarders.

She asked if I understood about not going away. I told her no but that I accepted her answer. I did comment that I fear she is in a depression and needs someone to come along and push her out the door. Because that's what we are talking about. Someone who doesn't want to go out and do anything.

I am a very positive person by nature and very resilient. I have always been the sort of person to go out and grab life, chase down happiness, really be responsible for it. This way of being baffles me. I understand her pain (I had thirteen miscarriages between my first baby and my last). Through all that we kept trying through the pain, had a blast with our one child and just really LIVED. I just wish she would look around at all she has and soak it up and try to find the joy that is still there. Perhaps her depression has gotten so deep that only pharmaceuticals will help.

She has spent her life loving us. Wish she'd let us show her that a full life is still hers to have.

 

[luvsJack]

The purging we are talking about is excess furniture, dishes, knick knacks. I wouldn't think of pushing getting rid of his stuff. We don't even push purging anything or remodelling. She seems to sink lower and lower looking around her space and verbalized her distaste for it Dh wants to help her get rid of a dining room set she hates, excess beds, bedroom furniture from his childhood. The place is beginning to look like something out of that show Hoarders.

She asked if I understood about not going away. I told her no but that I accepted her answer. I did comment that I fear she is in a depression and needs someone to come along and push her out the door. Because that's what we are talking about. Someone who doesn't want to go out and do anything.

I am a very positive person by nature and very resilient. I have always been the sort of person to go out and grab life, chase down happiness, really be responsible for it. This way of being baffles me. I understand her pain (I had thirteen miscarriages between my first baby and my last). Through all that we kept trying through the pain, had a blast with our one child and just really LIVED. I just wish she would look around at all she has and soak it up and try to find the joy that is still there. Perhaps her depression has gotten so deep that only pharmaceuticals will help.

She has spent her life loving us. Wish she'd let us show her that a full life is still hers to have.

You may be right, she may need medication. She needs to see a dr. I may be wrong, but you mention hoarding and I think for some the start of it is depression.

 

[minkydog]

The purging we are talking about is excess furniture, dishes, knick knacks. I wouldn't think of pushing getting rid of his stuff. We don't even push purging anything or remodelling. She seems to sink lower and lower looking around her space and verbalized her distaste for it Dh wants to help her get rid of a dining room set she hates, excess beds, bedroom furniture from his childhood. The place is beginning to look like something out of that show Hoarders.

Oh, believe me I understand you. It took a long time for me to "get it", too. It's not just his personal things--it's EVERYTHING. Everything he touched, held, loved, read, talked about, slept on, or casually collected is PRECIOUS beyond belief to your MIL, as it has been to my mother. She may be saying she wants things to be different, but her body is telling a different story.

For a long time I didn't understand this and I would try to get my mom to get rid of stuff a little bit along. She is not out of touch--she saw exactly what I was doing and was angered and offended by it. I was confused. Hadn't mother just said she wanted to box up all these CDs and take them to the Veteran's Hospital? Yay! Let's get these CDs boxed up and take a trip to the VA tomorrow! SCREEEEEECH! That is my plan coming to a halt in her living room. For awhile there we just kept misunderstanding each other. She would tell me what she wanted to fix or improve, I'd try to provide it, and she would be unhappy or feel, well...pushed.

Here is what I understand NOW, after 12 years: My mother will eventually get to the point where she is willing to let go of things, but this is not that day. Her house does have the look of "Hoarders" to it, some of the rooms, but this is her stuff and she likes living in it. It is rude for me to try to push her, rearrange her things, suggest what she should do with them, or make a show of "cleaning things up." It's her house and her stuff.

Mother has given some things away and has had a few renovations done, but it took her 10 years to get there. It's a work in progress. I have learned to not come see her with "projects" on my mind. I ask her what she wants to do--sometimes it's go to a movie. Sometimes it's clean out the sunroom or document the gun collection. But I have changed my own mind from "getting things done" to "enjoying the time with my mom", whatever we may be doing. As much as I'd love to get in there and start trashing stuff, that will probably not happen during my mother's life time.

 

[mom2rtk]

Oh, believe me I understand you. It took a long time for me to "get it", too. It's not just his personal things--it's EVERYTHING. Everything he touched, held, loved, read, talked about, slept on, or casually collected is PRECIOUS beyond belief to your MIL, as it has been to my mother. She may be saying she wants things to be different, but her body is telling a different story.

For a long time I didn't understand this and I would try to get my mom to get rid of stuff a little bit along. She is not out of touch--she saw exactly what I was doing and was angered and offended by it. I was confused. Hadn't mother just said she wanted to box up all these CDs and take them to the Veteran's Hospital? Yay! Let's get these CDs boxed up and take a trip to the VA tomorrow! SCREEEEEECH! That is my plan coming to a halt in her living room. For awhile there we just kept misunderstanding each other. She would tell me what she wanted to fix or improve, I'd try to provide it, and she would be unhappy or feel, well...pushed.

Here is what I understand NOW, after 12 years: My mother will eventually get to the point where she is willing to let go of things, but this is not that day. Her house does have the look of "Hoarders" to it, some of the rooms, but this is her stuff and she likes living in it. It is rude for me to try to push her, rearrange her things, suggest what she should do with them, or make a show of "cleaning things up." It's her house and her stuff.

Mother has given some things away and has had a few renovations done, but it took her 10 years to get there. It's a work in progress. I have learned to not come see her with "projects" on my mind. I ask her what she wants to do--sometimes it's go to a movie. Sometimes it's clean out the sunroom or document the gun collection. But I have changed my own mind from "getting things done" to "enjoying the time with my mom", whatever we may be doing. As much as I'd love to get in there and start trashing stuff, that will probably not happen during my mother's life time.

You sound like a very sensitive and respectful daughter.

 

[minkydog]

You sound like a very sensitive and respectful daughter.

Thank you. I've learned from my mistakes. Twelve years ago I wasn't nearly so sensitive and respectful and I deeply regret inflicting more pain on my mother during the worst time of her life. As they say, what goes around comes around. I imagine I'm in for a dose of my own medicine in the next 15 years or so.

 

[mom2rtk]

Thank you. I've learned from my mistakes. Twelve years ago I wasn't nearly so sensitive and respectful and I deeply regret inflicting more pain on my mother during the worst time of her life. As they say, what goes around comes around. I imagine I'm in for a dose of my own medicine in the next 15 years or so.

She's your mom. I'm sure she forgives you and appreciates how you adjusted.

 

[cabanafrau]

It's not even been a year since the MIL lost pretty much her identity. She was so and so wife and his caregiver. She really isn't "needed" as a mother either and when those are the only titles you have for years and year, it is quite normal to feel like life is over.

Women in particular have this need to care on someone and show love. Yes, I know that she still has her children and grandchildren but this loss hasn't even been a year. You(generic you) can't force grief to go faster because it makes someone uncomfortable or because there is drama involved.

I hate to hear people say she is wallowing in it. They lady was known as Mrs. Lastname WIFE of whomever for my guess many many years. Now she is just Widow Lastname. That is quite the transition. I can imagine she is quite lonely and frankly at that age it is really difficult to make that transition especially after being a wife and caregiver and seeing the other half your heart die.

If she is in that bad of shape, I suggest sending a caregiver to her house. Just a simple person that will sit with her, make up simple meals and help her with house chores. It will also be some company.

Again, it hasn't even been a year since the loss of the husband and the change in her whole life. That's not the kind of process you can rush thing because it's uncomfortable for others.

What you say makes a lot of sense, however there is a razor fine line between taking the time to regain your equilibrium and wallowing. I am dealing with a situation very similar to the timeframe and circumstances Minkydog describes with her mom. My parents had wanted to move for several years before my father passed, but they were engaged in a Mexican standoff because they had very different desires of where and how they wanted to move.

My mother jumped up and down on the tried and truism of not making any major changes for a year after my father died. For many reasons I felt in her case it was a bad idea, but held my tongue. Well into the second decade since my father has been gone she is still wrapped tightly in her widow's cloak.

DH & I just had a discussion this past weekend about how I have had to build up a perimeter to hold my mother back a bit because I cannot continue to absorb her negativity and her neediness. That sounds terrible, however she expects me to discontinue working so I'll have more free time to devote to her. In her case she doesn't want to shop or lunch or hang out during what my normal working hours would be, rather she wants me to accomplish all I need to get done during those hours so she can show up slightly before DH would arrive home from work, have dinner with us, hang out, watch TV, etc. She even became annoyed as my girls' activities and schedule bloomed. We had coddled her after my dad died with probably too much attention and she's climbed up on her widow's perch and won't come down.

I see a lot of these situations when I work with the probate division in relation to guardianships and conservatorships becoming necessary at an earlier point than would ordinarily be expected because of these types of issues. It worries me with my mother greatly, but I've had to be determined to do what I need to keep myself and my family(household) functioning and push her with all my might into things I know are necessary to keep her active and interactive with many other people, places and things to do in order to ward off the effects of too much wallowing.

 

[quandrea]

What you say makes a lot of sense, however there is a razor fine line between taking the time to regain your equilibrium and wallowing. I am dealing with a situation very similar to the timeframe and circumstances Minkydog describes with her mom. My parents had wanted to move for several years before my father passed, but they were engaged in a Mexican standoff because they had very different desires of where and how they wanted to move.

My mother jumped up and down on the tried and truism of not making any major changes for a year after my father died. For many reasons I felt in her case it was a bad idea, but held my tongue. Well into the second decade since my father has been gone she is still wrapped tightly in her widow's cloak.

DH & I just had a discussion this past weekend about how I have had to build up a perimeter to hold my mother back a bit because I cannot continue to absorb her negativity and her neediness. That sounds terrible, however she expects me to discontinue working so I'll have more free time to devote to her. In her case she doesn't want to shop or lunch or hang out during what my normal working hours would be, rather she wants me to accomplish all I need to get done during those hours so she can show up slightly before DH would arrive home from work, have dinner with us, hang out, watch TV, etc. She even became annoyed as my girls' activities and schedule bloomed. We had coddled her after my dad died with probably too much attention and she's climbed up on her widow's perch and won't come down.

I see a lot of these situations when I work with the probate division in relation to guardianships and conservatorships becoming necessary at an earlier point than would ordinarily be expected because of these types of issues. It worries me with my mother greatly, but I've had to be determined to do what I need to keep myself and my family(household) functioning and push her with all my might into things I know are necessary to keep her active and interactive with many other people, places and things to do in order to ward off the effects of too much wallowing.

An insightful post. I have to agree with you. We are closing in on a year and my mil is worsening day by day. I understand that she needs love, support but I think it is irresponsible to watch her settle deeper and deeper into grief and accept that behaviour. We wouldn't allow her to remain physically ill, why is her mental state different?

I realize this situation is probably beyond the scope of expertise of my dh and myself. The whole situation is quite upsetting. Watching her withdraw further from life and her grandchildren is disconcerting.

I've been reading about complicated grief, listed on the dsm V. She has every symptom. Quite troubling.

 

[cabanafrau]

An insightful post. I have to agree with you. We are closing in on a year and my mil is worsening day by day. I understand that she needs love, support but I think it is irresponsible to watch her settle deeper and deeper into grief and accept that behaviour. We wouldn't allow her to remain physically ill, why is her mental state different?

I realize this situation is probably beyond the scope of expertise of my dh and myself. The whole situation is quite upsetting. Watching her withdraw further from life and her grandchildren is disconcerting.

I've been reading about complicated grief, listed on the dsm V. She has every symptom. Quite troubling.

I agree and can see this on both a personal and professional level every day. I think it's why I am such a huge advocate and obnoxious lecturer about decisively getting out there and being involved with things and people. Whatever your interests are, stay involved with them as much as humanly possible. If you hit the point where it's a matter of your knees, back, hips, etc. no longer allowing you to particpate in the physical activity that you've always enjoyed so much, get right back on the horse and find a way to keep yourself involved with the group of great friends you have been used to participating with, or if it's not the group of people that were pulling you into something, find a new way to mix with people or activity you enjoy in a different way. I firmly believe this helps hold back the effects of depression, anxiety and ultimately the creep of dementia caused by aging.

For many people the very best thing is to help others. It doesn't matter what they're really doing, if they feel it helps others they begin to feel worthwhile. That alone does tremendous things to the psyche. This isn't only true for the elderly.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

An insightful post. I have to agree with you. We are closing in on a year and my mil is worsening day by day. I understand that she needs love, support but I think it is irresponsible to watch her settle deeper and deeper into grief and accept that behaviour. We wouldn't allow her to remain physically ill, why is her mental state different?

I realize this situation is probably beyond the scope of expertise of my dh and myself. The whole situation is quite upsetting. Watching her withdraw further from life and her grandchildren is disconcerting.

I've been reading about complicated grief, listed on the dsm V. She has every symptom. Quite troubling.

Mental illlness is a tough one to get someone help for on many levels from her family and the person affected.

For starters it is not uncommon for family to be in denial about a loved one's mental state. To them it is as if the person is "the way they always were" and they do not want to "rock the boat". (Read do not want to/or cannot deal with it at the moment.)

Someone in the family has to be willing to stick their neck out and go to a doctor's appt. with your MIL. Best scenario would be the people she lives with.

I myself had to watch my medicated schizophrenic MIL go downhill from liver disease. I did what I could. I reported her condition frequently prior to her diagnosis. It was clear to everyone she was in bad shape. By the time she was diagnosed, I did what I could. I went to appts., pleaded with them to go to appts., with her, etc. She passed away in Sept.

At some point in the journey I just had to "let it go". I did what I could.

The alternative would have been legal in nature which would have resulted in locking her up and forcing treatment on her. The family was against this and preferred she "went out" on her own terms. They were at peace with that.

So bottom line the people that have to be discussing this situation is her children. I know it sucks to hear that but considering the family dynamics you have stated here, your hands are tied.

At some point you have to be "at peace" with the decision of her children to not intervene.

You do what you can and that is all you can do.

 

[eliza61]

The purging we are talking about is excess furniture, dishes, knick knacks. I wouldn't think of pushing getting rid of his stuff. We don't even push purging anything or remodelling. She seems to sink lower and lower looking around her space and verbalized her distaste for it Dh wants to help her get rid of a dining room set she hates, excess beds, bedroom furniture from his childhood. The place is beginning to look like something out of that show Hoarders.

She asked if I understood about not going away. I told her no but that I accepted her answer. I did comment that I fear she is in a depression and needs someone to come along and push her out the door. Because that's what we are talking about. Someone who doesn't want to go out and do anything.

I am a very positive person by nature and very resilient. I have always been the sort of person to go out and grab life, chase down happiness, really be responsible for it. This way of being baffles me. I understand her pain (I had thirteen miscarriages between my first baby and my last). Through all that we kept trying through the pain, had a blast with our one child and just really LIVED. I just wish she would look around at all she has and soak it up and try to find the joy that is still there. Perhaps her depression has gotten so deep that only pharmaceuticals will help.

She has spent her life loving us. Wish she'd let us show her that a full life is still hers to have.

But what you have to understand is that EVERY thing in that house has a connetation to her husband.

Now my grief took me in an opposite direction. I recently moved back to the city, my house we raised our kids in is currently for sale.

Every thing in my house was connected to my late husband. the color of the walls, the leaky toilet, the type of house phone we had, all of it reminded me of my husband. And for me, with my sons in college and the house being big, I couldn't keep up. so every time I would look at a broken door handle I would end up crying for days because I know my husband would have fixed it.

Last week I think I told you, I took a hammer to the snow blower. I was so absolutely enraged. we had all this snow, I couldn't get the damn thing working and all I kept doing was cursing out my husband for dying and leaving me to deal with this ^&%!!

You absolutely have no idea how powerful the emotions are. I mean I literally took a sledge hammer and starting swinging. Then I started crying because my garage looks awful and the garage was my dh's pride and joy. So now I feel like a failure for not keeping it up to his standards.

Every thing in that house was a reminder of what I no longer have, every thing in my old house seemed to scream at my at what a collossal failure I am. The bedroom furniture that we brought together reminded me that he worked 33 days straight with no day off to pay for it and I kevetched about him never being home to help with the kids.
Every time I dust his autographed football helmets I am reminded of the times when I complained about the money spent on them.

So for me, my old house was an every day reminder of what a horrible, wife mom, person I was. My left brain tried to tell me that I couldn't have been that bad we were happily married for 28 years but my emotional right side just beat me up day and night.

My point is, trivial unimportant things that you think are non issues, to a widow like you mil and me are MAJOR, MAJOR issues.

 

[quandrea]

But what you have to understand is that EVERY thing in that house has a connetation to her husband.

Now my grief took me in an opposite direction. I recently moved back to the city, my house we raised our kids in is currently for sale.

Every thing in my house was connected to my late husband. the color of the walls, the leaky toilet, the type of house phone we had, all of it reminded me of my husband. And for me, with my sons in college and the house being big, I couldn't keep up. so every time I would look at a broken door handle I would end up crying for days because I know my husband would have fixed it.

Last week I think I told you, I took a hammer to the snow blower. I was so absolutely enraged. we had all this snow, I couldn't get the damn thing working and all I kept doing was cursing out my husband for dying and leaving me to deal with this ^&%!!

You absolutely have no idea how powerful the emotions are. I mean I literally took a sledge hammer and starting swinging. Then I started crying because my garage looks awful and the garage was my dh's pride and joy. So now I feel like a failure for not keeping it up to his standards.

Every thing in that house was a reminder of what I no longer have, every thing in my old house seemed to scream at my at what a collossal failure I am. The bedroom furniture that we brought together reminded me that he worked 33 days straight with no day off to pay for it and I kevetched about him never being home to help with the kids.
Every time I dust his autographed football helmets I am reminded of the times when I complained about the money spent on them.

So for me, my old house was an every day reminder of what a horrible, wife mom, person I was. My left brain tried to tell me that I couldn't have been that bad we were happily married for 28 years but my emotional right side just beat me up day and night.

My point is, trivial unimportant things that you think are non issues, to a widow like you mil and me are MAJOR, MAJOR issues.

I'm sorry for your loss. You articulate the conflicting emotions well. How ling after your husband's death did you make a move to the city? Has it helped in your recovery. I see that as a positive moving forward, a reinvention of your life. Do you feel that way?

 

[eliza61]

I'm sorry for your loss. You articulate the conflicting emotions well. How ling after your husband's death did you make a move to the city? Has it helped in your recovery. I see that as a positive moving forward, a reinvention of your life. Do you feel that way?

I just recently moved. LOL you should have been at the settlement!! I was crying like a motherless child. thankfully my sister was with me and my realtor who was wonderful knew my history.

One, I never in a million years thought I'd be purchasing a house on my own. There are days when I feel proud of myself for trying to get emotional healthy, then there are days when I feel like I'm ruining everyone's life, that I'm too old to "start over" and I should have stayed put.

One thing that has still surprises and scares me is the "depth" of the emotions. while I'm a normal gal, when I get mad or sad I think I'm pretty routine in that I'm over it or deal with it with out violence or drama.

With me, I think I knew I had to do some thing because while my kids are pre adult and adult (both in college one still lives at home and the other is away at college but comes home on breaks) they just lost their dad and I didn't want them to feel like they were now losing their mom also.

I do think it's help with my recovery. I still go to support groups but I think now I'll have the memories without much of the guilt that was attached to my old house.

Give yourself and your husband a pat on the back. It's hard seeing some one you love in pain especially when there are few things you can do to help.

 

[cabanafrau]

But what you have to understand is that EVERY thing in that house has a connetation to her husband.

Now my grief took me in an opposite direction. I recently moved back to the city, my house we raised our kids in is currently for sale.

Every thing in my house was connected to my late husband. the color of the walls, the leaky toilet, the type of house phone we had, all of it reminded me of my husband. And for me, with my sons in college and the house being big, I couldn't keep up. so every time I would look at a broken door handle I would end up crying for days because I know my husband would have fixed it.

Last week I think I told you, I took a hammer to the snow blower. I was so absolutely enraged. we had all this snow, I couldn't get the damn thing working and all I kept doing was cursing out my husband for dying and leaving me to deal with this ^&%!!

You absolutely have no idea how powerful the emotions are. I mean I literally took a sledge hammer and starting swinging. Then I started crying because my garage looks awful and the garage was my dh's pride and joy. So now I feel like a failure for not keeping it up to his standards.

Every thing in that house was a reminder of what I no longer have, every thing in my old house seemed to scream at my at what a collossal failure I am. The bedroom furniture that we brought together reminded me that he worked 33 days straight with no day off to pay for it and I kevetched about him never being home to help with the kids.
Every time I dust his autographed football helmets I am reminded of the times when I complained about the money spent on them.

So for me, my old house was an every day reminder of what a horrible, wife mom, person I was. My left brain tried to tell me that I couldn't have been that bad we were happily married for 28 years but my emotional right side just beat me up day and night.

My point is, trivial unimportant things that you think are non issues, to a widow like you mil and me are MAJOR, MAJOR issues.

That is very brave of you to lay out your situation so bare and raw. I hope it helps others who are or find themselves in your shoes, or who are dealing with a loved one struggling to find understanding. Kudos to you for taking steps to work your way out of a situation you intellectually understood, but was emotionally killing you. I'm sorry for your loss.