Help me understand why the other countries hate Israel?

[LuvDuke]

Yes the Muslims who both captured Jerusalem and built the Dome of the Rock were Arabs. That said, those same Arabs did not hang around Palestine forever. The Arabs have historically been a very nomadic people - moving from one locale to another. I don't blame them one bit for up and leaving Palestine -- many of them living in Damascus and Amman and acting as absentee landlords. The land of Palestine was anything but hospitable. The land that wasn't arid was malarial swamp.

The facts do stand -- they are not my own, but those of British demographic studies, Arab studies, Jewish studies -- there was not a long standing, stable Arab population in Palestine. Most of the Arabs living in Palestine in the early 20th century could only trace their lineage in the land to the time after the Egyptian capture of the land in the 1830s.

Your "1.2 million Arabs in Palestine" is an interesting number -- and I'd love to know the source of that number. There are so many numbers bandied about -- some including the Arabs living in the Transjordan Palestine and some just including the western part of Palestine. You are correct about the 600,000 Jews. However, it is wrong to assume that the 600,000 Jews were spread equally across Palestine in 1947 just as it is wrong to assume that the 1.2 million Arabs were spread equally across Palestine at that time. The areas partitioned by the United Nations for the Jews contained a majority population of Jews, and had contained a majority population for a significant period of time. The Jewish resettlement of Palestine is not just a recent event -- for there has been a Jewish presence in Palestine since biblical days.

As you have probably found out by now, figures are very hard to come by when it comes to the Middle East. Here's one site I've used that doesn't seem to have a political agenda:

http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

Not easy reading. However, I don't take issue with whether or not there 1.2 million Arabs or 1.1 million Arabs living in Palestine in 1948. Who really knows? Here's what I take issue with:

1) You seem to be peddling the idea that Palestine was a vast no-man's land. It was not. There were Arab homes, villages, and shops there. Not all were landless nomads.

2) On the face of it, your assertion that there was a Jewish presence in Palestine since biblical days is correct. There were other presences, but let's just stick with that one. So how does this translate into a claim of ownership for a modern day Zionist? On what basis does someone in Chicago claim the right to a home in Jerusalem when they've neither lived or even travelled there? Doubly so when the home they claim is already occupied by an Arab family and has been for 3 generations? That's the crux of the problem.

This could go on and on but it's irrelevant. All the facts and figures mean nothing. As one who saw the politics and conflicts up close and personal, my conclusion is logic left the building a long time ago. You can endlessly debate the minutia of each side and ultimately, you walk shaking your head at the utter stupidity of it all.

As far as the current conflict, once again, we're watching a giant squash an ant with A-bomb. I wish someone would please explain to me why the proper response to terrorist missiles hitting northern Israel requires bombing an international airport at least twice and staging hundreds of retaliatory raids against people who had nothing to do with the attack.

 

[LuvDuke]

I just wanted to thank everyone who has posted here. Its been very informative & educational.

This is more informative and educational then you realize.

If the tensions seem to be running high here, with just words on a computer, you can imagine what those same tensions are in the Middle East with people who live and breathe the conflict. And then people want to know why there's no peace.

 

[LuvDuke]

the difference being, Israel outlawed kahane's political party and prosecutes his followers if they step over the line. in the West Bank and Gaza, the extremists are running the shop

And the members of the outlawed Kach party went over to the far-right Herut party. Kach is still there, but with a different name.

As far as the extremists running the shop, Hamas was elected. More of that "democracy on the move" in the Middle East.

 

[SandraVB79]

There are more jewish people outside of »Israel than in the country it self . In fact there more jewish people in the USA than in Israel.

The other day, I heard on the radio that aparantly Israel has asked/ demanded that all Jews would come (back) to the country, to live happily together.

(OK, this is over simplified, but that was the general idea. I didn't listen with 100% of my attention to it, since I'm not Jewish)

 

[RoyalCanadian]

As far as the current conflict, once again, we're watching a giant squash an ant with A-bomb. I wish someone would please explain to me why the proper response to terrorist missiles hitting northern Israel requires bombing an international airport at least twice and staging hundreds of retaliatory raids against people who had nothing to do with the attack.

The problem with Lebanon is, and has been for decades, Syria.Their unconditional support of Hezbollah has always been a thorn in Israel's northern border. Now that the majority of Syrian troops have been removed from Lebanon it would have been hopeful that Lebanon would have done something, anything, about Hezbollah -- but they haven't.

The attacks on the airport are an attempt to block Hezbollah from removing the kidnapped Israeli soldiers to Iran. The same goes for the land route to Damascus. As well, Hezbollah has been using the airport to bring in weapons so the attack has a double purpose.

As well, the wider military operations against Lebanon are an Israeli attempt to force the Lebanese to act against Hezbollah -- once again, to do anything to bring Hezbollah into line. We'll see how this works.

 

[cardaway]

If the tensions seem to be running high here, with just words on a computer, you can imagine what those same tensions are in the Middle East with people who live and breathe the conflict. And then people want to know why there's no peace.

Just look at the posts implying there is only one side to this.

 

[eclectics]

The problem with Lebanon is, and has been for decades, Syria.Their unconditional support of Hezbollah has always been a thorn in Israel's northern border. Now that the majority of Syrian troops have been removed from Lebanon it would have been hopeful that Lebanon would have done something, anything, about Hezbollah -- but they haven't.

The attacks on the airport are an attempt to block Hezbollah from removing the kidnapped Israeli soldiers to Iran. The same goes for the land route to Damascus. As well, Hezbollah has been using the airport to bring in weapons so the attack has a double purpose.

As well, the wider military operations against Lebanon are an Israeli attempt to force the Lebanese to act against Hezbollah -- once again, to do anything to bring Hezbollah into line. We'll see how this works.

The sad part is that the majority of the Lebanese people want nothing to do with Hezbollah. A very small minority are running the show. Lebanon used to be the jewel of the Middle East with a huge world wide tourist trade. Pity it's the average citizen that always seems to pay the price.

 

[budbeerlady]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I had no idea of all the historial significance for so many of the worlds major religions. Or even the history prior to 1948 and the U.N. stepping in. Thanks!

 

[DVC Sadie]

My view is very simplistic in regards to the problems in the Middle East (and elsewhere).

There are extremists on both sides who do not want peace or to give up anything for peace. Neither side is totally innocent in my opinion.

 

[punkin]

My view is very simplistic in regards to the problems in the Middle East (and elsewhere).

There are extremists on both sides who do not want peace or to give up anything for peace. Neither side is totally innocent in my opinion.

Where can you find a conflict where one of the sides is completely innocent? If one side is actually completely innocent, turns the other cheek, and attempts to placate the aggressors, it is usually exterminated while the rest of the owrld looks on and does nothing.

 

[toto2]

Great summary, Toto!

Thank you.

There is much more to all this than this brief , and other people summary. I dont take sides in this story. There are far more loosers than winners both jewish and palestinians.

As north americans , we like to have our story simple: black/withe, good/ bad, Luke skywalker/dark Vader etc.


Yesterday , for a whole day CNN was only reporting about one dead jewish woman because of labanon strikes , while there was at least 61 lebanese civilian death because of Israeli strikes. So our news is ofetn biased.

I was under the impression that arab people in Israel were living like black people in south africa during the apartheide , when in fact , arab citizens of israel have a right to vote , community centers , representatives at the knesset and so and so. Try to find a non muselim in any arab coutry who can vote or be represented in ther parliement ! Does this make the palestinians situation any easier ? Obviously not !

When I was in Israel , in a kibbutz 22 years ago , I learned to respect the israely jewish very much. They did a miracle in the middle of the desert , buiding a democratic country , but i still am very saddened by the situation over there . Palestinians have every right to be enraged by how they have been treated by Israel , the Arab countries , and the world.

 

[mickeyfan2]

The problem with Lebanon is, and has been for decades, Syria.Their unconditional support of Hezbollah has always been a thorn in Israel's northern border. Now that the majority of Syrian troops have been removed from Lebanon it would have been hopeful that Lebanon would have done something, anything, about Hezbollah -- but they haven't.

The attacks on the airport are an attempt to block Hezbollah from removing the kidnapped Israeli soldiers to Iran. The same goes for the land route to Damascus. As well, Hezbollah has been using the airport to bring in weapons so the attack has a double purpose.

As well, the wider military operations against Lebanon are an Israeli attempt to force the Lebanese to act against Hezbollah -- once again, to do anything to bring Hezbollah into line. We'll see how this works.

I hope it does work. I have worked with people from Lebanon. On guy had his house demolished by a bomb. There is no love lost between Lebanon and Syria. I hope this is the push Lebanon needs to finish what they started when the Syrian troops finally left Lebanon. The world needs to help Lebanon's democracy become stable and to help them quickly rebuild the airport and other places demolished by the attacks. I believe Israel acted correctly about bombing the airpor runways. The needed to keep their solders from being taken to Iran.

 

[LuvDuke]

The problem with Lebanon is, and has been for decades, Syria.Their unconditional support of Hezbollah has always been a thorn in Israel's northern border. Now that the majority of Syrian troops have been removed from Lebanon it would have been hopeful that Lebanon would have done something, anything, about Hezbollah -- but they haven't.

The attacks on the airport are an attempt to block Hezbollah from removing the kidnapped Israeli soldiers to Iran. The same goes for the land route to Damascus. As well, Hezbollah has been using the airport to bring in weapons so the attack has a double purpose.

As well, the wider military operations against Lebanon are an Israeli attempt to force the Lebanese to act against Hezbollah -- once again, to do anything to bring Hezbollah into line. We'll see how this works.

Or, the attack on the airport and the escalation by Israel was to provoke the conflict with Iran while using the American military as the buffer zone and an ace-in-the-hole in case things really go down the crapper. Call me a cynic.

I don't believe attacking Lebanon will force the Lebanese to control Hezbollah, but will bring about the rise of Lebanese nationalism against an attacking force .......... Israel. The Arab saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is standard procedure in the Middle East.

And frankly, the idea that someone would attack innocent people to force their hand is abhorrent, immoral, and cynical beyond what should be normal human decency. That's the thinking of terrorists, and not a legitimate democracy.

We'll see how this plays out.

 

[BuckNaked]

As far as the current conflict, once again, we're watching a giant squash an ant with A-bomb. I wish someone would please explain to me why the proper response to terrorist missiles hitting northern Israel requires bombing an international airport at least twice and staging hundreds of retaliatory raids against people who had nothing to do with the attack.

While you and I seem to agree quite a bit about the problems caused by the way Israel was created out of thin air, this is where we part ways.

When you are fighting a group that is being supplied by other countries, you do what you have to in order to cut off their supplies. You bomb airports, roads, railways and anything else that could aid in their resupply.

As for the "retaliatory raids against people that had nothing to do with the attack", take a look at where Hezbollah leaders and fighters live and work. In civilian neighborhoods. While I do regret that civilians are being killed, the blame lies not with the Israelis for bombing the neighborhoods, but with Hezbollah for hiding behind the civilian population.

Israel is in a war at this point, and if you're going to fight a war, you should fight it to win, not just to break even.

 

[CathrynRose]

As far as the current conflict, once again, we're watching a giant squash an ant with A-bomb. I wish someone would please explain to me why the proper response to terrorist missiles hitting northern Israel requires bombing an international airport at least twice and staging hundreds of retaliatory raids against people who had nothing to do with the attack.

Why wont Lebanon release the Isreali Soldier(s)?

It's a game. And quite frankly - Isreal has to "flex it's muscles". Every dang country that surrounds it, hates it.

As I said to my kids "Isreal dont play"

 

[frndshpcptn]

"And frankly, the idea that someone would attack innocent people to force their hand is abhorrent, immoral, and cynical beyond what should be normal human decency. That's the thinking of terrorists, and not a legitimate democracy."

No one over there is truly "innocent" in this conflict. If the Arab countries really cared about peace, the citizens would find a way to control the likes of Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. They don't - and I don't believe they really want to.

No one over there would shed a tear if Israel was wiped off the map. Although, on he other hand, Israel is not above feeling that way as well about its enemies.

It's a complicated, passionate, scary situation.

 

[LuvDuke]

Why wont Lebanon release the Isreali Soldier(s)?

Where are you getting your information that Lebanon has the Isreali soldiers?

I think you're confusing Lebanon with Hezbollah.

It's a game.

"A game"?

Poker is a game. Checkers is a game. War, with the resulting death and destruction is NOT a game.

 

[CathrynRose]

"A game"?

Poker is a game. Checkers is a game. War, with the resulting death and destruction is NOT a game.

Thanks for The LuvDuke's History of Games Lesson.

 

[JennyMominRI]

.

And frankly, the idea that someone would attack innocent people to force their hand is abhorrent, immoral, and cynical beyond what should be normal human decency. That's the thinking of terrorists, and not a legitimate democracy.

We'll see how this plays out.

By that defintion,Bombing Hiroshima, Nagasaki ,Dresden and a multitude of other German cities in WW2 was Immoral, Terrorist acts

 

[LuvDuke]

By that defintion,Bombing Hiroshima, Nagasaki ,Dresden and a multitude of other German cities in WW2 was Immoral, Terrorist acts

There is a difference. Israel is not at war with Lebanon. If I follow some of the opinions expressed here, Israel is attacking Lebanon with the hopes that it will provoke a civil war with Hezbollah.

I don't believe Lebanon is the target at all. I think Israel wants to provoke a confrontation with Iran and 135,000 American soldiers are conveniently over the border.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.