Help me figure out what to do about the neighbors dogs!

[Poohlove]

Butters looks like to be a bit thinner than most pitbulls. Pits tend to be stockier and have more of a block head so I am not sure that one could slide through the metal fence in the picture. I know mine couldn't anyway.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Butters looks like to be a bit thinner than most pitbulls. Pits tend to be stockier and have more of a block head so I am not sure that one could slide through the metal fence in the picture. I know mine couldn't anyway.

Butters is not a pit bull. He is a lab-chow-heinz 57 mix. In fact he looks like a female and looks friendly, but he is not. He is a very insecure dog. I do daily training and he is on Prozac.

Once he gets to know you he is fine. If you are scared of him, he is scared of you.

 

[cabanafrau]

I have a dog like this as well. He is not allowed to be aggressive outside and everyone who takes him out corrects him.

Neighbors behind us have 2 puppies recently one is a Husky, other is a lab, and yes they are adorable. Butters (my 12yo aggressive dog) LOVES the Husky because it is a SHE and they share the whole back fence. Then the lab BOY puppy came under 3 months ago and well of course the puppies play constantly with each other when out so Butters is aggressive with the Lab.

FUN TIMES....not. I am training constantly now. The puppy barks at Butters to play and then Butters wants to kill him.

Butters wants to stay outside all day. I have to herd him in.

I wonder if I could ask you a few questions out of curiosity? Please don't read anything into what I ask or be offended if I put my foot in my mouth. You've been around here a long time and I have a lot of respect for your thoughts, so please accept I'm not trying to offend you or make some kind of sly point or something.

Has your dog always been aggressive or is it something that came as he aged? Is it purely your love for your dog that makes you willing to go the extra mile and take all the precautions you do so that you can keep him, or have you ever considered surrendering him as too much of a danger? Do you have a line where you think, if he behaves like X and crosses that line, he must go? Are your neighbors aware your pup has the potential to want to go after them or their dogs? If so, does it cause any problems? Are you or anyone in your family ever intimidated by your dog?

I can understand that in some situations dogs have actual jobs to do and in some circumstances that may include the need to be somewhat aggressive. As far as in my home or the rest of the homes in our neighborhood there really isn't a need for a dog to behave aggressively such as to protect. When we've had a dog it was purely a desire for the companionship a great dog provides and I cannot understand deciding to contend with one who is aggressive, or may be on any given day. I get having a wonderful dog with a great disposition who suddenly develops an ailment that causes them to become aggressive and suddenly I'm torn between my beloved pet and the struggle to insure no one gets hurt. I just can't ever see myself being willing to put up with that threat or risk for very long.

 

[Poohlove]

Butters is not a pit bull. He is a lab-chow-heinz 57 mix. In fact he looks like a female and looks friendly, but he is not. He is a very insecure dog. I do daily training and he is on Prozac.

Once he gets to know you he is fine. If you are scared of him, he is scared of you.

I know that he isn't a pit, that is why I made the comment What I was saying was that that Butters's breed is shaped differently than a pitbull so while strength wise a pit may be able to bulldoze a fence shape wise it would be like putting a square peg into a round hole.

 

[momz]

I wonder if I could ask you a few questions out of curiosity? Please don't read anything into what I ask or be offended if I put my foot in my mouth. You've been around here a long time and I have a lot of respect for your thoughts, so please accept I'm not trying to offend you or make some kind of sly point or something.

Has your dog always been aggressive or is it something that came as he aged? Is it purely your love for your dog that makes you willing to go the extra mile and take all the precautions you do so that you can keep him, or have you ever considered surrendering him as too much of a danger? Do you have a line where you think, if he behaves like X and crosses that line, he must go? Are your neighbors aware your pup has the potential to want to go after them or their dogs? If so, does it cause any problems? Are you or anyone in your family ever intimidated by your dog?

I can understand that in some situations dogs have actual jobs to do and in some circumstances that may include the need to be somewhat aggressive. As far as in my home or the rest of the homes in our neighborhood there really isn't a need for a dog to behave aggressively such as to protect. When we've had a dog it was purely a desire for the companionship a great dog provides and I cannot understand deciding to contend with one who is aggressive, or may be on any given day. I get having a wonderful dog with a great disposition who suddenly develops an ailment that causes them to become aggressive and suddenly I'm torn between my beloved pet and the struggle to insure no one gets hurt. I just can't ever see myself being willing to put up with that threat or risk for very long.

I have a dog that barks because he is afraid of everything. When he sees a person, he will bark bark bark. Most of the time, his barking is rewarded by the person going away. On the few occasions when the person did not go away, but continues into our yard, my dog has ran away from them. He will not allow himself to be within range of being touched by anyone. People are scary, after all.

But, the people that hear him barking don't know this. His bark is scary, and I completely understand why a person would be intimidated by that. It is difficult to train a dog to not bark, when barking gets him what he wants (the person leaves).

Some will say that because of the barking, my dog is aggressive. We keep him because he brings us joy. He is loved and cared for. We take precautions to keep him safe and we also take precautions to keep others safe from him.

We've had him for nearly a year now, and he has gotten better in a lot of ways. We didn't know his nature until he was with us for a few weeks. When he first came home, he seemed rather shell shocked and it took him a while to warm up to us. Gradually, over time, he has come to trust us and now we are his family.

 

[dotfurio]

Update:

We fixed every board in our fence that was even slightly broken or chewed. We decided to do a mesh type metal, then on top of that a layer of welded wire. I like the metal sheeting idea, but I also want to see if the dog is starting to tear through boards again. If so, metal sheeting or chain link will be a next step.

We called animal control to find out our rights with the neighbor's aggressive dog. They pretty much said it's a civil issue unless there's a bite, otherwise they won't do anything unless the dog is actually in our backyard, at which point we can call them and they "would try to get out." However, if the dog makes it through again we WILL be calling the police. It's a little ridiculous to me as a homeowner I'm supposed to put up with a vicious dog entering my yard and threatening my family and someone has to be injured or killed before anything gets done. How many times have we heard of police shooting dogs for acting aggresively during a call?! They didn't wait to be bit....

We talked to the neighbors. Again, they were very apologetic. We told them what we were doing to secure our side. They offered to pay their share, which was nice to hear, but we told them no, we just want them to do something on their side (hoping by not having to pay us they'll do some investing on materials for their side). They agreed that this weeked they would do something to secure their side of the fence. I told them how our daughter was terrified to be in the backyard and we can't let her and the neighbor kids play in the backyard. We also told them how we feared letting our dog out. I'm pretty sure the issue is mainly between our dogs because looking at their backyard, their dog hasn't touched the other side they share with a neighbor, who doesn't have dogs. They kept trying to say their "babies" are just barkers and not aggressive, which we would know if only we could see their tails wagging. They mentioned how their gardener and pool person don't have any issues with the dogs (which is true, we talked to their pool person one day and he said the dogs were fine with him). However, we didn't acknowledge thier dogs might be even remotely friendly and kept reiterating that their one dog is being territorial and aggressive, because so far that's been our only experience with it. Our pest control came by today and also mentioned to us how aggressive their dog was as he was working on our yard. We told the neighbors if our efforts to secure the fence don't work we would have to report it if it got through again and they said they understood.

So hopefully it's not just talk on their side and our joint measures to secure the fence work. If the dog gets through again and nothing gets done by the police or animal control, mama bear just might have to get herself some shooting lessons.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

*Thanks for the continual updates*

We called animal control to find out our rights with the neighbor's aggressive dog. They pretty much said it's a civil issue unless there's a bite, otherwise they won't do anything unless the dog is actually in our backyard, at which point we can call them and they "would try to get out." However, if the dog makes it through again we WILL be calling the police. It's a little ridiculous to me as a homeowner I'm supposed to put up with a vicious dog entering my yard and threatening my family and someone has to be injured or killed before anything gets done. How many times have we heard of police shooting dogs for acting aggresively during a call?! They didn't wait to be bit....

The thing is there are laws to protect people as well as animals. I don't think you would want someone shooting your dog if it just barked but that bark seemed aggressive or other things. This is why there are laws for that. There are cases where neighbors have killed a person's dog (one was with garden shears another was with poisoning and the list goes on) because the neighbor didn't like how the dog was x,y,z.

ETA: (I understand getting in your yard I do but just wanted to point out why animal control has provided the answers they gave you).

As for police instances...those don't tend to have good PR for a reason. There are def. cases where the police officers had a very clear reason to do what they did and then there are times where they didn't (shoot dog in fenced back yard for no reason at all) and other times where it is a grey area.

We talked to the neighbors. Again, they were very apologetic. We told them what we were doing to secure our side. They offered to pay their share, which was nice to hear, but we told them no, we just want them to do something on their side (hoping by not having to pay us they'll do some investing on materials for their side). They agreed that this weeked they would do something to secure their side of the fence.

I'll be honest I would have let them pay their share of it. Yes I would also want them to do something on their side as well.

I told them how our daughter was terrified to be in the backyard and we can't let her and the neighbor kids play in the backyard. We also told them how we feared letting our dog out. I'm pretty sure the issue is mainly between our dogs because looking at their backyard, their dog hasn't touched the other side they share with a neighbor, who doesn't have dogs. They kept trying to say their "babies" are just barkers and not aggressive, which we would know if only we could see their tails wagging. They mentioned how their gardener and pool person don't have any issues with the dogs (which is true, we talked to their pool person one day and he said the dogs were fine with him). However, we didn't acknowledge thier dogs might be even remotely friendly and kept reiterating that their one dog is being territorial and aggressive, because so far that's been our only experience with it. Our pest control came by today and also mentioned to us how aggressive their dog was as he was working on our yard.

See the thing is what you're telling us is that there is a clear reason why the dog becomes aggressive with some people and not others.

Their gardner has no issues, their pool person has no issues. The dog has issues with your property and with a pest control person that came onto your property, the dog doesn't appear to care about other neighbors..so yeah at least from I can tell it's your property that is doing something to set the dog off. Not blaming you at all obviously but it's a pretty big detail to know.

If the dog was just aggressive with everyone well that would probably be different in my mind. It reminds me of cases where for example cats would suddenly become all crazy and have extreme behavior issues and it would be found out that there were other cats coming onto their property. Once that was dealt with the cat usually returned to normal. So to me at least there is clearly something going on. I knew a dog at a shelter where I volunteered years ago. He was for some reason very very aggressive with males. This dog was small but he only showed aggression towards males. Females he was awesome with had no problems. But if you didn't know that and just kept seeing males come up to him and he bared his teeth and growled and barked menacing you might think he was that way always.

We told the neighbors if our efforts to secure the fence don't work we would have to report it if it got through again and they said they understood.

So hopefully it's not just talk on their side and our joint measures to secure the fence work.

I'm glad that you do have an open conversation with your neighbors at least.

If the dog gets through again and nothing gets done by the police or animal control, mama bear just might have to get herself some shooting lessons.

As people have mentioned though review your laws. I understand protecting your family but understand that could get you in legal trouble and depending on the laws animal cruelty charges, fines owed, etc. You would need to review what force can be used and when that can be used. I can't make the decision for you obviously but I wouldn't go straight for shooting lessons without understanding the potential consequences for whatever action you might take.

 

[wilkeliza]

Update:

We fixed every board in our fence that was even slightly broken or chewed. We decided to do a mesh type metal, then on top of that a layer of welded wire. I like the metal sheeting idea, but I also want to see if the dog is starting to tear through boards again. If so, metal sheeting or chain link will be a next step.

We called animal control to find out our rights with the neighbor's aggressive dog. They pretty much said it's a civil issue unless there's a bite, otherwise they won't do anything unless the dog is actually in our backyard, at which point we can call them and they "would try to get out." However, if the dog makes it through again we WILL be calling the police. It's a little ridiculous to me as a homeowner I'm supposed to put up with a vicious dog entering my yard and threatening my family and someone has to be injured or killed before anything gets done. How many times have we heard of police shooting dogs for acting aggresively during a call?! They didn't wait to be bit....

We talked to the neighbors. Again, they were very apologetic. We told them what we were doing to secure our side. They offered to pay their share, which was nice to hear, but we told them no, we just want them to do something on their side (hoping by not having to pay us they'll do some investing on materials for their side). They agreed that this weeked they would do something to secure their side of the fence. I told them how our daughter was terrified to be in the backyard and we can't let her and the neighbor kids play in the backyard. We also told them how we feared letting our dog out. I'm pretty sure the issue is mainly between our dogs because looking at their backyard, their dog hasn't touched the other side they share with a neighbor, who doesn't have dogs. They kept trying to say their "babies" are just barkers and not aggressive, which we would know if only we could see their tails wagging. They mentioned how their gardener and pool person don't have any issues with the dogs (which is true, we talked to their pool person one day and he said the dogs were fine with him). However, we didn't acknowledge thier dogs might be even remotely friendly and kept reiterating that their one dog is being territorial and aggressive, because so far that's been our only experience with it. Our pest control came by today and also mentioned to us how aggressive their dog was as he was working on our yard. We told the neighbors if our efforts to secure the fence don't work we would have to report it if it got through again and they said they understood.

So hopefully it's not just talk on their side and our joint measures to secure the fence work. If the dog gets through again and nothing gets done by the police or animal control, mama bear just might have to get herself some shooting lessons.

Great update. Very clear. This can even serve as your "journal" of events as well. The fact you have talked to your neighbor, reinforced your side, not taken a portion, and documented that your daughter, yourself, your dog, and several others have come onto your property have vocalized an aggressive dog are very important.

Your neighbors clearly don't know much about dogs if they are saying their tail is wagging so they aren't mean. A wagging tail does not equate with friendly. There are many reasons including anxiety why a dog may wag their tale. Snarling, aggressive barking (there is a difference between play bark and warning bar), tense muscles, ears "pinned" in either direction, and rigid posted legs can all be signs of aggression and attack mode while the dog is still wagging its tail.

It is a shame the city won't do anything until a dog actually bites. I would imagine the local animal control should at least be able to come to your property and determine if the dog is aggressive and if so give the neighbors some resources on training and tips for the situation to prevent a bite so no one has to get injured by this dog.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It is a shame the city won't do anything until a dog actually bites. I would imagine the local animal control should at least be able to come to your property and determine if the dog is aggressive and if so give the neighbors some resources on training and tips for the situation to prevent a bite so no one has to get injured by this dog.

Except where the fact that the dog appears to show a reaction such that it does only to the OP's property. That would be a flawed study for sure what you are describing the animal control do.

And to be honest the descriptions provided and the details given to me seems like the dog is reactive...not an aggressive dog. It shows a very specific reactions towards a very specific stimuli. The dog doesn't have this same reaction towards people on its own property...the other dog, the gardner, the pool person and heck even the other neighbor that doesn't have a dog.

 

[wilkeliza]

Except where the fact that the dog appears to show a reaction such that it does only to the OP's property. That would be a flawed study for sure what you are describing the animal control do.

And to be honest the descriptions provided and the details given to me seems like the dog is reactive...not an aggressive dog. It shows a very specific reactions towards a very specific stimuli. The dog doesn't have this same reaction towards people on its own property...the other dog, the gardner, the pool person and heck even the other neighbor that doesn't have a dog.

That's why i said see what's going on and offer advise.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That's why i said see what's going on and offer advise.

I didn't see you really say that at least in that way. Yes you said the animal control could offer advise to the neighbors but you said have the animal control come onto the OP's property to determine if the dog was aggressive and if so give advice to the neighbors.

We already know it's the OP's property that is causing this specific reaction. Having the animal control go over to the OP's property especially first or only would create a flawed study. It would need to be an unbiased controlled study.

Basically the absolute last thing the appropriate person (who is there to find out if the dog is aggressive or not) should do is go over to the OP's property first. Probably a better way of going about it is spending a good amount of time at the neighbor's house without going outside, the person would interview people such as the pool person, the gardner, the other neighbor that doesn't have a dog to understand experiences others have had with the dog in question. In steps and probably best to do it different days go outside with the dog in question but without the OP's dogs out there. Then the last thing would be to have the dog in question out there with the OP's dogs. I would want a trained professional there that time for everyone's safety.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Our neighbors moved in a couple months ago. They have 2 pit bulls, and one of them has been very aggressive towards us and our dog. It has chewed through our fence twice, only enough to get it's head through. Both times DH replaced the board and talked to them. They are very nice and have always been very apologetic. They also put up plywood on their side to reinforce the holes. Tonight I hear their dogs barking like crazy. We have a sunroom attached to the back of our house, so I peer through the windows and find the aggressive one barking and snarling at me. It had chewed through 3 fence boards to break into our yard. Thank God our dog was inside! DH went over to handle it again, he fixed the boards on our side, they put up more plywood. They want our family to meet the dogs so hopefully they won't be aggressive to us anymore, but that's not going to stop them from wanting to attack my dog. I can't feel safe letting my dog run around its own backyard, and I will NEVER feel safe letting my 8 year old in the backyard without an adult as things are now.

So what I need is some ideas to make our fence more secure. We were thinking of covering our side with welded wire fencing? Any other ideas?

Haven't read through the responses, but...

First thing I would do is sit down with them again and say that obviously the plyboard isn't working and could they put up the wire fence on their side. You shouldn't have to do it or pay for it and you shouldn't have to have it mar the look of your yard. Of course if they say they can't afford it/don't want to/etc, then I'd just go ahead and do it so you can enjoy your yard.

 

[wilkeliza]

I didn't see you really say that at least in that way. Yes you said the animal control could offer advise to the neighbors but you said have the animal control come onto the OP's property to determine if the dog was aggressive and if so give advice to the neighbors.

We already know it's the OP's property that is causing this specific reaction. Having the animal control go over to the OP's property especially first or only would create a flawed study. It would need to be an unbiased controlled study.

Basically the absolute last thing the appropriate person (who is there to find out if the dog is aggressive or not) should do is go over to the OP's property first. Probably a better way of going about it is spending a good amount of time at the neighbor's house without going outside, the person would interview people such as the pool person, the gardner, the other neighbor that doesn't have a dog to understand experiences others have had with the dog in question. In steps and probably best to do it different days go outside with the dog in question but without the OP's dogs out there. Then the last thing would be to have the dog in question out there with the OP's dogs. I would want a trained professional there that time for everyone's safety.

If they go to the OPs property they would see what the OP is experiencing. Of course a control would be great but it was just a suggestion om what they could do with out having to request access to a property someone may not allow. If they see reactive/aggressive behavior in the way the OP is experiencing it they can at least mail ag letter to the neighbor saying they would like to help. The neighbor if they really already were on board could have brought a trainer onto their property to see what'a up but that doesn't sound like the case.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If they go to the OPs property they would see what the OP is experiencing. Of course a control would be great but it was just a suggestion om what they could do with out having to request access to a property someone may not allow. If they see reactive/aggressive behavior in the way the OP is experiencing it they can at least mail ag letter to the neighbor saying they would like to help. The neighbor if they really already were on board could have brought a trainer onto their property to see what'a up but that doesn't sound like the case.

I guess you're not quite seeing it the way I'm trying to describe it. Maybe that's my fault.

It's a flawed study with extreme bias if you have the appropriate person go to the OP's house first or only go there. If you have a preconceived bias that the dog is aggressive and you want to prove it well guess what you sure will if that's what you'll do. The issue is the OP's property as it is being described. The dog doesn't have the same behavior towards other stimuli so of course you'll be eliciting the exact response you want...that the dog is aggressive case closed it's easy peasy...if you go to the OP's house.

Basically my point is the OP can make complaints and request someone come out, if that is possible, but the interaction with the OP should basically stop there until the very end. Just about all of the interaction should be with the neighbor and the appropriate person out there doing the review.

If someone did something that really angered you and just brought out the worst in you would you think it was right to judge you based on that one encounter alone and label you as "X" knowing that you aren't like that except when whatever happens causes you to be that way? I realize we are talking about a dog though I'm just trying to explain it better I guess.

 

[wilkeliza]

I guess you're not quite seeing it the way I'm trying to describe it. Maybe that's my fault.

It's a flawed study with extreme bias if you have the appropriate person go to the OP's house first or only go there. If you have a preconceived bias that the dog is aggressive and you want to prove it well guess what you sure will if that's what you'll do. The issue is the OP's property as it is being described. The dog doesn't have the same behavior towards other stimuli so of course you'll be eliciting the exact response you want...that the dog is aggressive case closed it's easy peasy...if you go to the OP's house.

Basically my point is the OP can make complaints and request someone come out, if that is possible, but the interaction with the OP should basically stop there until the very end. Just about all of the interaction should be with the neighbor and the appropriate person out there doing the review.

If someone did something that really angered you and just brought out the worst in you would you think it was right to judge you based on that one encounter alone and label you as "X" knowing that you aren't like that except when whatever happens causes you to be that way? I realize we are talking about a dog though I'm just trying to explain it better I guess.

I get what you are trying to say and I defer in the approach that the OP can take. Again if the neighbor is willing and really thought there was any issue then they would have already brought someone in who didn't get the bias side.

With that said most trainers I have worked with don't go in biased. If they see the dog is reactive to the OP's fence but then get the okay to do further evaluation they are still open to the fact it could be something on the OPs side of the fence (kids, another dog, heck the sprinklers maybe). A good dog evaluation isn't going to take 1 experience as the end all to be all it just checks the box off that yes the dog is reactive/aggressive to the side of the fence that the neighbor/OP share it doesn't say they are reactive/aggressive to anything else.

In your people situation if there was 1 person that constantly made me angry and aggressive if a therapist looked in on just that one situation and said hey since you are saying it is only with this one person maybe try XYZ I would jump to them judging my ability to interact with all people even though they've never seen me interact with anyone else.

I'm not saying label this dog aggressive/reactive for the rest of its life just the very specific scenario the OP is discussing which is their fence line.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I get what you are trying to say and I defer in the approach that the OP can take. Again if the neighbor is willing and really thought there was any issue then they would have already brought someone in who didn't get the bias side.

Well I did say they should be having a professional help with training. We are in agreement there. The neighbors don't seem I guess understanding..kinda like "my child can do no wrong" type thinking. The neighbors should be doing all the work really and the OP should be involved if the professional thinks that is appropriate.

With that said most trainers I have worked with don't go in biased. If they see the dog is reactive to the OP's fence but then get the okay to do further evaluation they are still open to the fact it could be something on the OPs side of the fence (kids, another dog, heck the sprinklers maybe). A good dog evaluation isn't going to take 1 experience as the end all to be all it just checks the box off that yes the dog is reactive/aggressive to the side of the fence that the neighbor/OP share it doesn't say they are reactive/aggressive to anything else.

We weren't speaking of trainers though in that context. We were speaking about animal control-you even said have animal control come out to the OP's property so they could see what the OP was experience...well yeah they probably are going to see that reaction. I had said appropriate person and by that I meant a representative of the city for example that would be determining if the dog was aggressive or not. I would hope that trainers do keep their biases out of it though. Now if the city requested that a professional do the review then yeah that is different than the animal control person doing it themselves.

I'm not saying label this dog aggressive/reactive for the rest of its life just the very specific scenario the OP is discussing which is their fence line.

Right you and I are in agreement there but the thing is the dog could easily be labeled aggressive for the rest of it's life and consequences such as being euthanized for example just by that one interaction of animal control going over to the OP's house without doing other measures first. That's why I stressed that would be a biased and flawed study. We both know that happens. Without a doubt the neighbors really should be getting assistance and it's unfortunate for their dog if they are choosing not to.

The OP is talking about their fence line but is also talking about the dog is aggressive and if it can to it where no one was doing anything until it bit that they would be taking shooting lessons if it came onto their property so clearly this is more than just damage to a fence and not only that the fence isn't even the issue..the issue is the dog and their reactions towards the OP's property. If you want to actually correct the issue the dog's behavior needs to be reviewed and worked on which is not the OP's responsibility. And as far as the fence that's why I mentioned I would have let the neighbors chip in as they did offer to do so. I'm not going to just hope that they use the funds they would have paid me to build a better defense on their side.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I wonder if I could ask you a few questions out of curiosity? Please don't read anything into what I ask or be offended if I put my foot in my mouth. You've been around here a long time and I have a lot of respect for your thoughts, so please accept I'm not trying to offend you or make some kind of sly point or something.

Has your dog always been aggressive or is it something that came as he aged? Is it purely your love for your dog that makes you willing to go the extra mile and take all the precautions you do so that you can keep him, or have you ever considered surrendering him as too much of a danger? Do you have a line where you think, if he behaves like X and crosses that line, he must go? Are your neighbors aware your pup has the potential to want to go after them or their dogs? If so, does it cause any problems? Are you or anyone in your family ever intimidated by your dog?

I can understand that in some situations dogs have actual jobs to do and in some circumstances that may include the need to be somewhat aggressive. As far as in my home or the rest of the homes in our neighborhood there really isn't a need for a dog to behave aggressively such as to protect. When we've had a dog it was purely a desire for the companionship a great dog provides and I cannot understand deciding to contend with one who is aggressive, or may be on any given day. I get having a wonderful dog with a great disposition who suddenly develops an ailment that causes them to become aggressive and suddenly I'm torn between my beloved pet and the struggle to insure no one gets hurt. I just can't ever see myself being willing to put up with that threat or risk for very long.

Butters was a rescue at 4mo and damaged goods. He was afraid of EVERYTHING!!!! I mean even the wind blowing hard would leave him scared. My oldest dd and I walked and trained him for many yrs. & we trained a lot of behaviors out of him.

We have moved a few times so he did have to adjust to several moves.

With a pinch collar on I can walk up to any dog and keep him under control. He has fear aggression as well as being territorial in the backyard of course. He has bitten a child, my nephew.

As far as putting up with it. I wanted to put him down after he bit my nephew. DH and kids were against me as well as members here on the DIS (cough, cough, PeanMe).

Looking back on the yrs since he is 12 now, it is SO CRITICAL when adopting to make sure you are getting a dog that is friendly immediately to you and sociable. If that is the one thing I learned to pass onto people, it would be that.

The other dog owners know how Butters is and knows we are responsible to him. It does affect how people view you for sure.

As far as myself, I am damned good at dog training now, lol. I am in my backyard training the puppies along with Butters at the same time, lol. I actually LOVE IT now. My other dog is a border collie mix so we have to keep the dogs busy at times, with games, walking, and training.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I know that he isn't a pit, that is why I made the comment What I was saying was that that Butters's breed is shaped differently than a pitbull so while strength wise a pit may be able to bulldoze a fence shape wise it would be like putting a square peg into a round hole.

Those aluminum bars are easily knocked out. A pit could be through an aluminum fence in seconds if it wants to.

 

[tzolkin]

I wonder if I could ask you a few questions out of curiosity? Please don't read anything into what I ask or be offended if I put my foot in my mouth. You've been around here a long time and I have a lot of respect for your thoughts, so please accept I'm not trying to offend you or make some kind of sly point or something.

Has your dog always been aggressive or is it something that came as he aged? Is it purely your love for your dog that makes you willing to go the extra mile and take all the precautions you do so that you can keep him, or have you ever considered surrendering him as too much of a danger? Do you have a line where you think, if he behaves like X and crosses that line, he must go? Are your neighbors aware your pup has the potential to want to go after them or their dogs? If so, does it cause any problems? Are you or anyone in your family ever intimidated by your dog?

I can understand that in some situations dogs have actual jobs to do and in some circumstances that may include the need to be somewhat aggressive. As far as in my home or the rest of the homes in our neighborhood there really isn't a need for a dog to behave aggressively such as to protect. When we've had a dog it was purely a desire for the companionship a great dog provides and I cannot understand deciding to contend with one who is aggressive, or may be on any given day. I get having a wonderful dog with a great disposition who suddenly develops an ailment that causes them to become aggressive and suddenly I'm torn between my beloved pet and the struggle to insure no one gets hurt. I just can't ever see myself being willing to put up with that threat or risk for very long.

I'm not the poster this was directed toward, but I will give my experience with owning an aggressive dog (pit bull).

We adopted based on description (and fell in love during our initial meeting). The description of this dog was "Sweet Ruby"-- she was the favorite of the volunteers at the rescue (and even after we owned her that's how our boarding facility and groomers referred to her as well because she was so lovable and affectionate). She really seemed to be the sweetest dog we had ever met. The rescue said she needed to be an only dog because she was "dominant" but assured us that she wasn't aggressive.

Within the first week or so we discovered that she was extremely dog aggressive (but was still super sweet with all people). After the settling in period (I guess once she became more attached to us and territorial of our home), she started to get "weird" with certain people. She didn't act in an overtly aggressive manner, but there was just something that made me not feel completely comfortable trusting her with others. We hired a professional and worked with her intensely for nearly a year. (I was not working at the time and devoted all my time to working with the dog.)

The reasons we were willing to work with the aggression issues essentially related to simply loving the dog and all of the wonderful qualities she did have. I had never before (and don't know that I will ever again) felt such a strong connection with an animal. There was an incredible sense of love, affection, and loyalty. She was also exceptionally well trained. It was truly a pleasure to work with her because she was so eager to learn and brought an intensity to it.

If it had just been DH and I, we likely would have kept her for the remainder of her life. With her training and our diligence, the aggression would have been manageable for us and worth the trade-off for the positive aspects of having her as a part of our family. But, we have three children and it eventually escalated to a point where it was not worth the risk to their safety to have the dog in our home. It was a completely heart-wrenching decision that resulted in many months of tears for DH and I, but it was ultimately the right thing to do.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If it had just been DH and I, we likely would have kept her for the remainder of her life. With her training and our diligence, the aggression would have been manageable for us and worth the trade-off for the positive aspects of having her as a part of our family. But, we have three children and it eventually escalated to a point where it was not worth the risk to their safety to have the dog in our home. It was a completely heart-wrenching decision that resulted in many months of tears for DH and I, but it was ultimately the right thing to do.

I'm so sorry you guys had to go through with that I just cannot even imagine how hard it must have been. I think most people would understand your decision given the circumstances. You obviously tried very hard and I absolutely admire you for that.